Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - It's the end of the world as we know it

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

I've been mistaken this whole time. So the Palestinian kids that are being killed in their thousands by the Israelis bombing markets and ambulances and refugee camps - those kids are actually holding hostages and thats why they are justifiably being killed by the Israelis. That puts a whole new slant on matters, if true. The bastard kids deserved to die.

[Pat Mustard]

I keep getting calls from randomers in the last 2 days saying they've a missed call from me. I presume my number is being "spoofed". Wait a minute, this could be some kind of scam or possibly scamola? Shame like, I've had the same number for 20+ years.

[Degag]

What website are people using for prescription glasses these days?

Interested in this too… gonna buy my first online pair in the next few weeks.
Was going to use Vision Direct as use them for contacts and find them good fwiw

[RichieM]

None of the work we do would benefit from it, the test was really to getting a base understanding of their level of competence across a range of subjects, without expecting perfection. Their responses to me showed they knew nothing about it. I also think it’s somewhat disingenuous to use it verbatim as it’s not a reflection of their talent. I had half considering bringing them in for interview and grilling them on their answer but thought that was too crafty, and just X’d them instead.

Not hiring a lazy person - solid hiring strategy.

[Raoul Duke III]

The Palestinians aren’t the ones not releasing hostages, accepting your logic above that is the decision of Hamas/Iran.

Hamas are Palestinians...they're funded and armed by Iran.
Should probably not forget that the Palestinians in Gaza voted for them too.

[hotspur]

Hamas are Palestinians...they're funded and armed by Iran.
Should probably not forget that the Palestinians in Gaza voted for them too.

And Israel have purposely facilitated Hamas funding, especially from Qatar, to oppose Fatah and sow disunity.

Here's a quote:

“Whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state,” The Jerusalem Post quoted Prime Minister Netanyahu as saying in 2019.

[Silver-Tiger]

Interested in this too… gonna buy my first online pair in the next few weeks.
Was going to use Vision Direct as use them for contacts and find them good fwiw

I've used spex4less before and found them good. I'll enquire if there is a post brexit tax.

[Solksjaer!]

Juex san Frontieres ( not 'shes so popular' as we all sang(

Pertinent song after all these years

[Strewelpeter]

Israel is more closely aligned to western values than China is which I’m sure you’d agree with therefore the expectation is different.

Israel do not treat Palestinians day to day in a way that aligns with Western values nor has there response been what is expected of a country with western values.

My guess is that the last point is something you might disagree with but the rest seems like common sense.

That's a good point and reflects the leverage that was successful in applying pressure on the apartheid regime on South Africa

There was a good discussion with some interesting insights about China on BBC's start the week yesterday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001s551

[Murdrum]

Hamas are Palestinians...they're funded and armed by Iran.
Should probably not forget that the Palestinians in Gaza voted for them too.

It’s pretty much irrelevant in the context of the conversation that Hamas members are largely Palestinians.

We are clearly delineating between Hamas and the Palestinian population more generally.

Hamas are refusing to release hostages not the Palestinians.

[balfejohn]

Mass Black Eights 5.25 Fundalk
Told to back each way

[Strewelpeter]

Most countries with Western values aren't located in the Middle East though, and face existential threats from sworn enemies. So expecting Israel to behave like Sweden seems unrealistic.

Kinda relevant, and a decent yarn anyway

In 1957, when Israel invaded the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula during the Suez crisis, our minister for external affairs Liam Cosgrave made a speech at the UN calling on “the Jews and the Arabs to settle their differences according to Christian principles”. Conor Cruise O’Brien, who was then a senior Irish diplomat, told me years later that he had suggested to Cosgrave that this was not likely to go down very well with either the Jews or the Arabs. “No”, Cosgrave replied, “but it will go down very well in Dún Laoghaire Rathdown.”

[Lazare]

But you do take the point on hostages and how their release could produce a ceasefire?

I do but I think it's a pointless argument. What Hamas perpetrated against innocents was also demonic.

If innocent Palestinian deaths can be blamed on the actions of the Hamas Government can innocent Israeli deaths on Oct 7th be blamed on Israeli actions?

It's a giant grotesque game of tit for tat.

I don't know what action Israel could have taken or should have taken, but bombing Ambulances, refugee camps and hospitals is not it.

Besieging over two million civilllians forcing disease and starvation, forcing kids to drink seawater, forcing doctors to administer nothing but diminishing supplies of paracetamol to victims of white phosphorus burns is not it.

[Strewelpeter]

I do but I think it's a pointless argument.

Eh? We can bemoan the Israeli reaction all we like but it is what they are choosing to do and us arguing that they should be more 'Christian' about it is pure sophism intended only to define our social media cred

Hamas is holding hostages, if they release them the bombing stops.

[Degag]

I've used spex4less before and found them good. I'll enquire if there is a post brexit tax.

Check out Vision Direct, base price of the glasses i was looking at about 20pc less than your site.

caveat as i said never used them for glasses but very competent re contacts etc

[Solksjaer!]

Eh? We can bemoan the Israeli reaction all we like but it is what they are choosing to do and us arguing that they should be more 'Christian' about it is pure sophism intended only to define our social media cred

Hamas is holding hostages, if they release them the bombing stops.

Yep gŕeat stance to hold , such a simple solution .

it's condemnation thats required , thats all we can do , their response is predictably savage and unjust . Is there a better way in 2023 . YES , dont kill children for starters , protect your borders better , announce to the world that you condemn the slaighter of innocent children change the optics , the hatred is being fed at the moment . Isreal can stop and say they cant stomach the wages of their task. Immediately the world praises their merciful (humane) actions. Thats how things change not with ultimatums and vengence.

[Denny Crane]

I do find it strange the people marching for a ceasefire never appear to call for the release of the hostages. There's no mention of Hamas having the option of ending it any time they want.

[Wombatman]

[Raoul Duke III]

Yep gŕeat stance to hold , such a simple solution .

it's condemnation thats required , thats all we can do , their response is predictably savage and unjust . Is there a better way in 2023 . YES , dont kill children for starters , protect your borders better , announce to the world that you condemn the slaighter of innocent children change the optics , the hatred is being fed at the moment . Isreal can stop and say they cant stomach the wages of their task. Immediately the world praises their merciful (humane) actions. Thats how things change not with ultimatums and vengence.

They're dealing with an existential threat. What are they supposed to do, ask them to 'pwetty pwease will you pinky swear not to attack us again, and if you would just release the auld hostages that'd be lovely'.

[Raoul Duke III]

Onto even more controversial topics.

Why do Americans reverse dates? e.g. September 11 instead of 11 September.

[Raoul Duke III]

I do find it strange the people marching for a ceasefire never appear to call for the release of the hostages. There's no mention of Hamas having the option of ending it any time they want.

Most of them never condemned the Hamas attacks either.

Should go back in time and see what the IPB reaction was...

[Lazare]

Eh? We can bemoan the Israeli reaction all we like but it is what they are choosing to do and us arguing that they should be more 'Christian' about it is pure sophism intended only to define our social media cred

Hamas is holding hostages, if they release them the bombing stops.

Pretty cynical Tony.

We're adults here, on a forum where we routinely maturely discuss issues. We're not posting disingenuous arguments looking for 'cred' on here.

If you're polarised on this issue and can't condemn the actions of both sides you're morally bankrupt.

Hopefully Hamas release the hostages soon so maybe the eye for an eye war crimes can stop.

The future in that region is hopelessly grim though. Hardened enemies.

[Raoul Duke III]

Most of them never condemned the Hamas attacks either.

Should go back in time and see what the IPB reaction was...

Interesting exercise.

I wonder how our reaction to the Hamas attacks compared to our reactions to 9/11 or the Paris attacks?

[Lazare]

Interesting exercise.

I wonder how our reaction to the Hamas attacks compared to our reactions to 9/11 or the Paris attacks?

I do remember you briefly mentioning it then going straight back into Rugby WC talk.

Are you antisemitic?

[Raoul Duke III]

I do remember you briefly mentioning it then going straight back into Rugby WC talk.

Are you antisemitic?

Well, interestingly nobody mentioned it that entire weekend. Even while it was clear that the scale was hundreds of Israelis brutally slaughtered.
I came back from the RWC late Sunday night and posted about it Monday am.

Was in somewhat of a bubble of rugby and alcohol at the weekend so unaware of world events.

That Hamas mass terror attack on Israel is truly shocking in many ways, not least the scale of it, but most of all, that the Israelis appear to have been taken completely by surprise. Their military response is bound to be overwhelming but the calculus of what to do about the hostages Hamas have taken must be awful.

As you can see, the tone was shock.

Cardshark immediately posted a whataboutery post. Nobody else expressed shock or horror.

I don't know, is that a normal reaction to an act of mass murder?

[cardshark202]

I do find it strange the people marching for a ceasefire never appear to call for the release of the hostages. There's no mention of Hamas having the option of ending it any time they want.

If we take Israel at their word that they will stop massacring children and bombing refugee camps. But then they'll continue with the illegal settlements and genocide so... I think the hostages should be released but it doesn't stop what Israel is perpetrating against the Palestinians. Is there any 'context' where we should give a nation state a pass for committing mass genocides?

[Solksjaer!]

They're dealing with an existential threat. What are they supposed to do, ask them to 'pwetty pwease will you pinky swear not to attack us again, and if you would just release the auld hostages that'd be lovely'.

They are not the ones dealing with an existential threat . I've offered an alternative reaction. Time to turn off the murder binge. Hamas garner support from this. A great success for them. You think hamas care ? They are sitting around in Tehran high fiving.

[cardshark202]

Well, interestingly nobody mentioned it that entire weekend. Even while it was clear that the scale was hundreds of Israelis brutally slaughtered.
I came back from the RWC late Sunday night and posted about it Monday am.



As you can see, the tone was shock.

Cardshark immediately posted a whataboutery post. Nobody else expressed shock or horror.

I don't know, is that a normal reaction to an act of mass murder?

If you think I just posted a whataboutery post, you've spent the last couple of weeks rationalising ethnic cleansing against the innocent Palestinians because they were 'asking for it'. Whereas I think what Hamas did was reprehensible, you seem to have little issue with the murder of innocent children.
Everything was fine and dandy until Hamas committed that terror attack, yeah?

[Solksjaer!]

Well, interestingly nobody mentioned it that entire weekend. Even while it was clear that the scale was hundreds of Israelis brutally slaughtered.
I came back from the RWC late Sunday night and posted about it Monday am.



As you can see, the tone was shock.

Cardshark immediately posted a whataboutery post. Nobody else expressed shock or horror.

I don't know, is that a normal reaction to an act of mass murder?

It was a WTF moment . I doubt anyone wasnt horrified . Yeah we knew what was coming as did Hamas Predictable played by both.

[Raoul Duke III]

Actually, our reaction to the Paris attacks was quite different.

So one act of mass murder, of Europeans in a European city, evinced a very different reaction to a far larger mass murder, of Jews in Israel.

Not just us btw, it's a fairly universal thing.

[Raoul Duke III]

It was a WTF moment . I doubt anyone wasnt horrified . Yeah we knew what was coming as did Hamas Predictable played by both.

So why wouldn't people express that horror? It's strange.

[Raoul Duke III]

Everything was fine and dandy until Hamas committed that terror attack, yeah?

There wasn't a state of war. That pogrom was the Pearl Harbour moment.

[Solksjaer!]

So why wouldn't people express that horror? It's strange.

They did . If you mean the BBV come on , its not always the 1st point of call personally i heard about it late but anyone i know was horrified . Hamas are scum , nobody thinks otherwise .

[Raoul Duke III]

They are not the ones dealing with an existential threat . I've offered an alternative reaction. Time to turn off the murder binge. Hamas garner support from this. A great success for them. You think hamas care ? They are sitting around in Tehran high fiving.

There is literally zero Israeli support for your 'turn the other cheek' approach. It's a non-starter.

Israel has to operate on two levels, tactical and strategic.
Tactically, they will attempt to:

• Destroy every piece of Hamas infrastructure, including the hundreds of kilometres of tunnels.
• Kill or capture every Hamas member they can find in Gaza.
• Kill all the Hamas leadership abroad.
• Get the hostages back.
• Dissuade Hezbollah from opening another front.

Bizarrely enough, that very hard set of objectives in the easy bit.

Strategically, they need to:

• Replace Hamas with a more secular, amenable PA.
• Isolate Iran. Ideally leading to a collapse of theocracy.
• Continue the rapproachment with the Gulf states.
• Somehow get a real two state solution back on the table (this is clearly impossible under Netanyahu) which will involve handing back stolen West Bank land.

Simples, eh?

[Solksjaer!]

There is literally zero Israeli support for your 'turn the other cheek' approach. It's a non-starter.

Israel has to operate on two levels, tactical and strategic.
Tactically, they will attempt to:

• Destroy every piece of Hamas infrastructure, including the hundreds of kilometres of tunnels.
• Kill or capture every Hamas member they can find in Gaza.
• Kill all the Hamas leadership abroad.
• Get the hostages back.
• Dissuade Hezbollah from opening another front.

Bizarrely enough, that very hard set of objectives in the easy bit.

Strategically, they need to:

• Replace Hamas with a more secular, amenable PA.
• Isolate Iran. Ideally leading to a collapse of theocracy.
• Continue the rapproachment with the Gulf states.
• Somehow get a real two state solution back on the table (this is clearly impossible under Netanyahu) which will involve handing back stolen West Bank land.

Simples, eh?

Far too late for tirning the other cheek. .

[balfejohn]

If you treat people like 2nd class citizens and keep taken part of their land year after year like a dog they will bite back
How the best prepared and train army in the world didn’t see it coming shows they were not ready to be bitten
The whole situation is wrong and it will only get worst as each side is backed by countries that detest each other.

in fairness I am happy with our politicians ie the current government ( not always on their side) with what they are saying and trying to do
Little Leo is starting to show real balls

[cardshark202]

Actually, our reaction to the Paris attacks was quite different.

So one act of mass murder, of Europeans in a European city, evinced a very different reaction to a far larger mass murder, of Jews in Israel.

Not just us btw, it's a fairly universal thing.

Your reaction to the mass murder of Palestinians is far more telling. Imagine Hamas was based in Israel. Do you think the IDF would have taken the same approach as they have?

[Solksjaer!]

My typos are annoying me but the site is hard to easily edit . Big thumbs. .

[Strewelpeter]

If you're polarised on this issue and can't condemn the actions of both sides you're morally bankrupt.

Thats is exactly what I have been saying.

Moronically simplistic condemnation on social media is not what is needed, practical solutions are.

Pressuring Hamas to release the hostages is a way to stop the retaliation.

It is disgusting to watch western pseudo liberal Hamas supporters like SF who have extensive personal contacts with Hamas bleating on calling for things they know will not be achievable while they could be using their influence to communicate the message that everyone knows that as long as Hamas holds hostages from Oct 7th Israel will continue to root out Hamas and mercilessly take out anyone who happens to find themselves standing in the way regardless of whether they are children, elderly, aid workers or whoever.

[Raoul Duke III]

Your reaction to the mass murder of Palestinians is far more telling. Imagine Hamas was based in Israel. Do you think the IDF would have taken the same approach as they have?

Strange hypothetical! It's not any kind of realistic scenario either so doesn't seem worth considering.

Hamas is the governing authority of Gaza. It decided to launch a war. Everything since that day is as inevitable as it is tragic. When the Israelis say that their founding principle is 'never again', they really mean it.

[Raoul Duke III]

Thats is exactly what I have been saying.

Moronically simplistic condemnation on social media is not what is needed, practical solutions are.

Lay them out there boss.

[MysteryGuest]

Trying to follow RDIII logic, seems to be trying to cast BBV as a haven of anti semitism because we weren’t all posting “Je suis Levi” and changing our profile pics to Israeli flags on oct 7th

trying to compare it to the Paris attack reaction is mental, that was on our doorstep , a major European capital we’ve all been to and know and a country we have a lot of ties with.

[Lazare]

The October 7th attack also seemed to filter slowly over the weekend in terms of information. The magnitude of it didn't really become fully apparent until about Mon or Tue.

The Battaclan etc was instant, and more immediately shocking.

[Denny Crane]

Is there any 'context' where we should give a nation state a pass for committing mass genocides?

They're trying to destroy Hamas. I think the collateral damage is awful. But I don't think Israel is committing genocide if you're sticking to any realistic definition of the word.

[MysteryGuest]

Man Utd the best comedy on tv these days

[Wombatman]

There is literally zero Israeli support for your 'turn the other cheek' approach. It's a non-starter.

Israel has to operate on two levels, tactical and strategic.
Tactically, they will attempt to:

• Destroy every piece of Hamas infrastructure, including the hundreds of kilometres of tunnels.
• Kill or capture every Hamas member they can find in Gaza.
• Kill all the Hamas leadership abroad.
• Get the hostages back.
• Dissuade Hezbollah from opening another front.

Bizarrely enough, that very hard set of objectives in the easy bit.

Strategically, they need to:

• Replace Hamas with a more secular, amenable PA.
• Isolate Iran. Ideally leading to a collapse of theocracy.
• Continue the rapproachment with the Gulf states.
• Somehow get a real two state solution back on the table (this is clearly impossible under Netanyahu) which will involve handing back stolen West Bank land.

Simples, eh?

Solid summation of understandable long and short term objectives. How successful do you reckon they will be in achieving those outcomes by continuing to unleash indiscriminate hell in Gaza while pissing off the international community?

[Raoul Duke III]

They're trying to destroy Hamas. I think the collateral damage is awful. But I don't think Israel is committing genocide if you're sticking to any realistic definition of the word.

It's not. But hey, it's Israel so hyperbole is to be expected.

It's a word that gets tossed around very loosely and it really shouldn't be.

[Raoul Duke III]

Solid summation of understandable long and short term objectives. How successful do you reckon they will be in achieving those outcomes by continuing to unleash indiscriminate hell in Gaza while pissing off the international community?

The tactical objectives are probably most attainable as they are military in nature. Sadly, the one that is least likely is rescuing the hostages.

The strategic ones by contrast are political in nature and therefore much harder. Very hard to see any of them being achieved under the current Israeli leadership, and of course there is no viable Palestinian leadership either.

[Strewelpeter]

Lay them out there boss.

Go back in a time machine to '46 and give Florida or Utah to the Zionists.

First and foremost keep doing whatever it takes to prevent it escalating out of control in the region. I don't see any way that a regional hot war backed by Iran doesn't spin out into WW3. It looks bleak, US have been playing a lot of diplomatic cards, any misstep and it could all blow up.

As long as the current government survives it's hard to see any path to de-escalation without hostage release, even if that means them killing hundreds of thousands of people and turning every building in Gaza to dust that is what they believe is their right to do.
Israel is immune to international pressure and the longer it takes for them to achieve some sort of mission accomplished waypoint they can lock in and take a step back from the more the civilian population of Gaza will suffer and the more likely the region will spin out of control.

There could be opportunities, after a period of calm and with a new Israeli government in place the whole landscape will have changed. Palestinians are going to have to find some leadership and better friends in the quieter period.

[Denny Crane]

while pissing off the international community?

Why does Israel care so little about PR? Do they just assume everyone hates them anyway?

The information war was a huge part of the second invasion of Iraq. Embedded journalists meant the war was told from the personal side of the US troops.

Compare that to the present situation where Hamas is the source used for causality figures by the BBC and you end up with the hospital fiasco.

That's before you get into the business of China polluting the minds of young people on Tiktok.

[balfejohn]

Thats is exactly what I have been saying.

Moronically simplistic condemnation on social media is not what is needed, practical solutions are.

Pressuring Hamas to release the hostages is a way to stop the retaliation.

It is disgusting to watch western pseudo liberal Hamas supporters like SF who have extensive personal contacts with Hamas bleating on calling for things they know will not be achievable while they could be using their influence to communicate the message that everyone knows that as long as Hamas holds hostages from Oct 7th Israel will continue to root out Hamas and mercilessly take out anyone who happens to find themselves standing in the way regardless of whether they are children, elderly, aid workers or whoever.

Sf and Mary Lou were surely responsible for this war as u blame them for all the ills of our little country u might as well add Gaza to the areas under sf influence

Thank god for an non biased view on the world problems

[Degag]

Actually, our reaction to the Paris attacks was quite different.

So one act of mass murder, of Europeans in a European city, evinced a very different reaction to a far larger mass murder, of Jews in Israel.

Not just us btw, it's a fairly universal thing.

Two most notable things from that part of the thread:
- Lots of ex-posters
- All Hitch's posts essentially deleted somehow

[Micknail]

If you treat people like 2nd class citizens and keep taken part of their land year after year like a dog they will bite back
How the best prepared and train army in the world didn’t see it coming shows they were not ready to be bitten
The whole situation is wrong and it will only get worst as each side is backed by countries that detest each other.

in fairness I am happy with our politicians ie the current government ( not always on their side) with what they are saying and trying to do
Little Leo is starting to show real balls

He's six foot four?!!!

[Murdrum]

Why does Israel care so little about PR? Do they just assume everyone hates them anyway?

The information war was a huge part of the second invasion of Iraq. Embedded journalists meant the war was told from the personal side of the US troops.

Compare that to the present situation where Hamas is the source used for causality figures by the BBC and you end up with the hospital fiasco.

That's before you get into the business of China polluting the minds of young people on Tiktok.

It’s the source used by the BBC because of the historical accuracy of the figures coming from the health ministry. That isn’t where I actually read it, can’t find the article but mentioned elsewhere too.

Interesting actually reading the opinions of former IDF troops on the ground.

[Raoul Duke III]

It’s the source used by the BBC because of the historical accuracy of the figures coming from the health ministry. That isn’t where I actually read it, can’t find the article but mentioned elsewhere too.

Interesting actually reading the opinions of former IDF troops on the ground.

The second link is interesting as it reminded me of the name of the Israeli doctrine of massive, overwhelming retaliation (such as we see in Gaza now and Lebanon previously): Dahiya.

"The military approach expressed in the Dahiye Doctrine deals with asymmetrical combat against an enemy that is not a regular army and is embedded within civilian population; its objective is to avoid a protracted guerilla war. According to this approach Israel has to employ tremendous force disproportionate to the magnitude of the enemy’s actions."

Our friend Tom Friedman has another good column in the NYT today.

It is crystal clear to me that Israel is in real danger — more danger than at any time since its War of Independence in 1948. And it’s for three key reasons:

First, Israel is facing threats from a set of enemies who combine medieval theocratic worldviews with 21st century weaponry — and are no longer organized as small bands of militiamen, but as modern armies with brigades, battalions, cyber capabilities, long-range rockets, drones and technical support. I am speaking about Iranian-backed Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic militias in Iraq and the Houthis in Yemen — and now even the openly Hamas-embracing Vladimir Putin.

The second danger I see is that the only conceivable way that Israel can generate the legitimacy, resources, time and allies to fight such a difficult war with so many enemies is if it has unwavering partners abroad, led by the United States. President Biden, quite heroically, has been trying to help Israel with its immediate and legitimate goal of dismantling Hamas’s messianic terrorist regime in Gaza — which is as much a threat to the future of Israel as it is to Palestinians longing for a decent state of their own in Gaza or the West Bank.

This leads directly into my third, deep concern.

Israel has the worst leader in its history, maybe in all of Jewish history — who has no will or ability to produce such an initiative.

Worse, I am stunned at the degree to which that leader, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, continues to put the interests of holding on to the support of his far-right base — and pre-emptively blaming Israel’s security and intelligence services for the war — ahead of maintaining national solidarity or doing some of the basic things that President Biden needs in order to get Israel the resources, allies, time and legitimacy it needs to defeat Hamas.

[Raoul Duke III]

Why does Israel care so little about PR? Do they just assume everyone hates them anyway?

The information war was a huge part of the second invasion of Iraq. Embedded journalists meant the war was told from the personal side of the US troops.

Compare that to the present situation where Hamas is the source used for causality figures by the BBC and you end up with the hospital fiasco.

That's before you get into the business of China polluting the minds of young people on Tiktok.

The Israelis are correct not to care.
No Western country is going to sanction them in any meaningful way, so, the thinking goes, why should we care what people are saying in the streets of Western capitals and on social media?

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

He's six foot four?!!!

We speak European here. 192cm, I guess you mean.

Well height is grand is feet maybe, but I can't understand how we still use whatever that UK system is for shoe sizes.

[Raoul Duke III]

Onto even more controversial topics.

Why do Americans reverse dates? e.g. September 11 instead of 11 September.

Ah, as with so many things, it appears to be the fault of the Brits.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

I guess the issue here Raoul, which is maybe captured in the collective responses to your posts, is there would be a strong suspicion based on your historic posting that you essentially don't think Palestinians have the same right to life as other humans.

You've a history of 36,000 posts on here to prove that statement wrong, but you won't find a post there that does prove this wrong.

For some reason you've decided that killing Palestinians is acceptable. Its not IPBs first rodeo on this.

[cardshark202]

It's not. But hey, it's Israel so hyperbole is to be expected.

It's a word that gets tossed around very loosely and it really shouldn't be.

It's incredible to think that criticizing Israel for committing war crimes and ethnically cleansing the Palestinians is seen as 'hyperbole'. Just a messed up worldview that you can't just take a step back and acknowledge the reality here.