Originally posted by hotspur
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Seems strange he would lie about this if there was actual video evidence?
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Originally posted by Solksjaer! View PostAgain there is a difference between correct and justifying
He is on trial for multiple serious crimes. All that matter in that position is the legal perspective. What we think the law should be is irrelevant. The justification is a legal justification only, not a moral one. When I said he has the right to be on the street with a rifle. The right to defend himself etc. The right to form a militia. That's a matter of fact. Those are rights that exist in law in that state. You might think they should be, but the fact is they exist. When we say he will get off on the murder charges, if is on the basis of those laws.
None of that suggest anyone thinks the situation is ok or morally justified. In my first post I said he shouldn't have been involved.
The dozens of people on both sides shouldn't have been armed. The protestors shouldn't have turned to rioting and burning property (the ones that did).
Rosenbaum shouldn't have came after the armed Rittenhouse. The guy who shot his gun while Rittenhouse fled shouldn't have. Rosenbaum shouldn't and tried to grab the gun. Grosskreutz shouldn't have been carrying a glock. He shouldn't have pointed it at Rittenhouse. The whole clusterfuck is a series of idiotic actions that could have been avoided.
Firearms don't make those situations safer or keep the peace. That add danger, risk, and increase tension.
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Originally posted by hotspur View Post
Well that seems to have become a thing, in that less clear footage was in the hands of the defence due to it being sent from Apple to Android or vice versa and it getting compressed. They are seeking a mistrial over it.
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Did you ever get round to answering the question Mellor asked you a few times but you dodged every time?This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostHas anyone watched the drone footage of the full incident with Rosenbaum?
The sequence of events as the prosecutor described it was that Rittenhouse illegally points his gun which instigates a response from Rosenbaum who chases him. Rittenhouse turns and points the gun at him when he is not too close to him, then runs again. As Rosenbaum gets close to him he shoots him multiple times. There is no lunge for the gun, we can see that that was a lie. How much that actually matters I don't know because if Rosenbaum got him it probably wouldn't have been his medical pack he was going to take.
I can't actually see the first part that the prosecutor points out about Rittenhouse pointing his gun.
So the jury requested to see this footage again during deliberation.
One question I have been thinking about is this. If Rittenhouse considered he would be in danger if Rosenbaum had the rifle then why would the reverse not also be the case given Rittenhouse had been pointing it at people. It is illegal to point a gun at someone in that jurisdiction, so will the jury decide that he instigated that specific incident with Rosenbaum? Or that it was caused by his illegal behaviour which prevents the argument ofself-defence?
Apologies if this has been poured over already, I haven't read all the posts fully.Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt
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I am not talking about anyones perception of the law here. I’m talking about people who think he should walk . Do you think he should walk? (I accept you’ve made your peace he acted within the law etc)
If he doesn’t walk , then the law is broke ? Injustice? Where do you stand then? You people keep harping on about the law and yet if you are correct 100% why is there a trial? How did it even get this far? Is there no due process before a trial? After we all digest the facts (and I’ve read as much as anyone (Trumpism) and not disputed your understanding of the law) how do we feel about a GUILTY verdict for any of the charges? Outraged? Believe me , irrespective of this verdict the law has been proven to be an ass here. They need to implement immediate legislation that deadly force can not be used when that force is committed by person who are actively encouraging conflict. There has to be liability in a situation like this. It’s clear to me Rittenhouse is liable.
As Clint sez , hell of a thing killing a man.
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As someone who only has a Netflix subscription and has pretty much stopped pirating I find it a problematic situation that it is random which streaming service might have a film or show. You would have to have subscriptions to Netflix, Prime, HBO Max, Disney, Apple to cover the bases. It is the randomness of checking whether Netflix has a film that bothers me. Not greatly mind you, but it is a barrier to not watching an illegal stream, given that I am not going to subscribe to all of them given how infrequently I watch something.
The point of these things were they were not just on-demand streams but aggregators and now they are getting increasingly segregated. Waiting now for a meta-streaming aggregator to subscribe to.
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Originally posted by hotspur View Post
Well that seems to have become a thing, in that less clear footage was in the hands of the defense due to it being sent from Apple to Android or vice versa and it getting compressed. They are seeking a mistrial over it.
The lunging part came from a witness testimony who was stand a few feet away. The medical examiner testified that he was about 4 feet away for the first shot, and the second was closer and went through an outstretched hand. "Close to or touching the barrel"
If Rittenhouse considered he would be in danger if Rosenbaum had the rifle then why would the reverse not also be the case given Rittenhouse had been pointing it at people. It is illegal to point a gun at someone in that jurisdiction, so will the jury decide that he instigated that specific incident with Rosenbaum? Or that it was caused by his illegal behaviour which prevents the argument ofself-defence?
I mentioned the pointing gun/feeling threatened in relation to the 3rd guy. He pointed his gun at RH, and RH shot him. Had he shot first he likely would have the same self defense card.Last edited by Mellor; 19-11-21, 15:10.
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Originally posted by Solksjaer! View PostMy last rittenhouse post
For the record I’ve not once said Mellors understanding of the US law was incorrect. I’ve been giving my reasons why he SHOULD and COULD go down for his actions and why WE should think that he should. (I’m still stunned some of you think he deserves to walk) Those with the opposing viewpoint have gone beyond what is said in the trail and giving points of view on the situation and somehow justifying Rittenhouses actions on the night . Not just ‘legally justifying them’ but otherwise. This is where I have contention. There is no justification for his actions . If you find yourself trying to justify them. EG , The right to defend some strangers property, the right to shoot someone dead who hits you with a skateboard, the right to basically act as a vigilante, I think you are wrong. Be honest with yourself. Do you really think this guy set himself up to help quell the protest by peaceful means? Now according to US LAW this case has gone to trail and according to US LAW his fate hangs on the jurors selected to deliberate . (despite what you open/shut case folk think)
If he is convicted of any of the charges is the verdict then unlawful (jury decision) Now how can that be?
I do think that under the state laws he did it in that they might let him go tho.
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Originally posted by hotspur View Post
Well that seems to have become a thing, in that less clear footage was in the hands of the defence due to it being sent from Apple to Android or vice versa and it getting compressed. They are seeking a mistrial over it.
not sure that works as a basis for a mistrial"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostAs someone who only has a Netflix subscription and has pretty much stopped pirating I find it a problematic situation that it is random which streaming service might have a film or show. You would have to have subscriptions to Netflix, Prime, HBO Max, Disney, Apple to cover the bases. It is the randomness of checking whether Netflix has a film that bothers me. Not greatly mind you, but it is a barrier to not watching an illegal stream, given that I am not going to subscribe to all of them given how infrequently I watch something.
The point of these things were they were not just on-demand streams but aggregators and now they are getting increasingly segregated. Waiting now for a meta-streaming aggregator to subscribe to.Gone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
"if you fuckers had given us the crystal clear images, then we wouldn't have encouraged our client to lie about the central plank of his defence"
not sure that works as a basis for a mistrial
With the judge seemingly unwilling to make a ruling on the video quality cause he doesnt seem to fully grasp the significance?
It's gonna be a fun documentary anyway about a US legal case where the prosecution and Judge aren't effectively in cahoots.People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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Originally posted by DeadParrot View Post
There's been some high class fuckery on both sides of this.
With the judge seemingly unwilling to make a ruling on the video quality cause he doesnt seem to fully grasp the significance?
It's gonna be a fun documentary anyway about a US legal case where the prosecution and Judge aren't effectively in cahoots.
How about:
'if the lunge didn't occur, send his ass to stir'"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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But I don't think the scenerio hinges on whether he lunged or not, or how much of a lunge is required. The prosecution seem on it as a prerequisite.
The allegation is that RB make a aggressive remake towards Rittenhouse. And started to chase/run towards after him. Somebody fired a gun. RH turned and pointed his gun at RB. And he kept coming at him. RH shooting him when he got close. I honestly can't see that roved or disproved by the video above.
He he was aggressively and maliciously running towards him. That's the important part. Whether he was running and lunging or whether he was just going to run into him full clip doesn't feel a whole lot different.
You still haven't answered the question. What do you think he intended to do?
I think it's pretty clear. Even prosecution witness confirm he as belligerently and trying to get a reaction. He said to one marine (prosecution witness) to shoot him. He had been released from hospital that day after a suicide attempt. He was bipolar and not on his medication. I think his actions are the whole case really. Was the way he acted reasonable or not. Was it reasonable for Kyle to feel threatened by those actions.
Originally posted by Solksjaer! View PostYou people keep harping on about the law and yet if you are correct 100% why is there a trial? How did it even get this far? Is there no due process before a trial?
It's not a case of simply saying "you felt at risk" and getting a murder pass. It comes down to whether that belief is reasonable. The idea of the notional "reasonable person" is long established in law.
After we all digest the facts (and I’ve read as much as anyone (Trumpism) and not disputed your understanding of the law) how do we feel about a GUILTY verdict for any of the charges?
I think he gets off on the attempted homicide, as the surviving guy had a gun pointed at him.
I'm not sure of the conditions for recklessly endangering safety. Could well be guilty on those counts.
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Originally posted by Mellor View PostI honestly can't really tell who is who on that clip. and when RB was shot.
But I don't think the scenerio hinges on whether he lunged or not, or how much of a lunge is required. The prosecution seem on it as a prerequisite.
The allegation is that RB make a aggressive remake towards Rittenhouse. And started to chase/run towards after him. Somebody fired a gun. RH turned and pointed his gun at RB. And he kept coming at him. RH shooting him when he got close. I honestly can't see that roved or disproved by the video above.
He he was aggressively and maliciously running towards him. That's the important part. Whether he was running and lunging or whether he was just going to run into him full clip doesn't feel a whole lot different.
I think it's pretty clear. Even prosecution witness confirm he as belligerently and trying to get a reaction. He said to one marine (prosecution witness) to shoot him. He had been released from hospital that day after a suicide attempt. He was bipolar and not on his medication. I think his actions are the whole case really. Was the way he acted reasonable or not. Was it reasonable for Kyle to feel threatened by those actions.
Also what's with calling the defendant 'Kyle'? Weird
Originally posted by Mellor View PostYou still haven't answered the question. What do you think he intended to do?
He could have intended to give him a kick up the hole. He could have intended to roar abuse at him. He could have intended to, well pretty much anything really.
We'll never know what he intended to do because Rittenhouse shot him dead. And now he'll never do anything ever again."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
Ha. That's a weirdly similar vibe! That spicy pork noodles dish is an absolute star. Is there anything else you would recommend in there?
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Postit feels like you're putting the first victim on trial here and your entire focus is on his motives.
Also what's with calling the defendant 'Kyle'? Weird
So on that basis RB’s motives are clearly very important. I feel you you are ignoring them because they are damaging.
Grosskreutz charge there is less to discuss. He pulled out a gun and pointed it at RH. Pretty clear that he was implying he would shoot him.
Kyle is his name.. Rittenhouse is a bit much to keep typing. Also why I was using RH/RB
I have no idea what he intended to do. Neither do you. Neither does anyone else.
I asked what do you think he was going to? You don’t need a crystal ball to have an opinion.
I suspect you have a fair idea if what he was going to try to do. But voicing that is RHs favour.Last edited by Mellor; 19-11-21, 16:58.
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Originally posted by Mellor View PostI asked what do you think he was going to? You don’t need a crystal ball to have an opinion.
I suspect you have a fair idea if what he was going to try to do. But voicing that is RHs favour.
As to Rittenhouse's, sorry Kyle's, state of mind and intentions though:- We know that he previously expressed a wish to shoot people weeks before the murders.
- We know that he previously punched a girl from behind
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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The company he keeps is also somewhat revealing. Again suggestive as to motive and state of mind.
Seeing as we're in territory of joining dots."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Had a cold last few days so ordered an antigen test, turned positive within a minute of dropping my snot into it. Should be grand, I'm double jabbed since end July."I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View PostHad a cold last few days so ordered an antigen test, turned positive within a minute of dropping my snot into it. Should be grand, I'm double jabbed since end July.Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally posted by Lazare View PostHey Lao, how was Note Bar?
Did you like my blinds?
I hope you spent a few bob, fucker hasn't paid me yet and is crying poor mouth.
Sorry, I meant to reply to this and it completely slipped my mind, it's been a bit of a funky week.
Note was really good. The space, while fairly minimal, is nicely done. I couldn't see your blinds though as they were fully open on all the windows - Are they really sleek as they looked super slim at the top of the window.
When we arrived, we got the 2nd last table, every other table bar one was full. We were there for about two and a half hours and a few tables left while we were there and additional people (what appeared to be walk-ins) came in and took them. Now, it was a Saturday night so every night might not be like that but I'm not sure he should be crying poor mouth already.
There was a pretty good atmosphere in the place, as I said it was packed and they were playing decent tunes, 90's / 00's although a few times, the volume did shoot up really loud and they had to lower it.
The wine list is decent although it does seem to be mainly made up of natural/low intervention wines - I'm not against this style of wine but I'm also not the most knowledgeable about it and I do have a slight cynicism that it's a little bit of a PR stunt to play to the hipster crowd. The price point on the wines seemed to be decent with the majority of the wines in the €40 - €60 range although I did see one bottle for €100 which was the most expensive one there.
The staff were really good, friendly and attentive and they knew their stuff. We settled on a bottle of Sancerre and the waitress mentioned this style of Sancerre was a bit more "pungent" than Sancerre's normally are and asked if we were OK with it. We were and right enough, the wine was a lot darker in colour than a normal Sancerre but the whiff off it wasn't too bad at all, it went down well.
We also had some bits to eat, foie gras parfait with some toasted bread and lavender almonds. The foie gras was good and the almonds were OK. There wasn't really a taste of lavender off them, until you got down to the bottom third and then they started to taste a bit soapy - I'm not sure it's a great combination.
After we finished the wine, we decided to have one for the road. Mrs Lao Lao opted for a gin martini which she said was rocket fuel and I had a glass of red wine, which for the life of me, I can't remember the name of - Again, it was perfectly drinkable.
Overall, the bill came to €96 or in Lazare's language, four mounting brackets, three tassels, two cord joiners and a tilt wand.
They plan to open a bistro but I'm not sure how it will work as it may take away from the wine bar element of it. I asked this and they are not too sure either. They seem to think that long term, they will need the extra revenue from the bistro but they want to still have the option to have a wine bar where people can just walk in and have a few drinks, they apparently block book out a good few of their tables for walk-ins. I'm guessing when things get back to normal, the bar, which is long enough will become the wine bar element of it plus a few tables and the balance of the tables will be held for the bistro.
I think as a customer, I would prefer if the whole place was left as a wine bar and they just did more small plates, tapa style, rather than a full bistro but either way, I think it could do very well - I'd definitively go back.
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Originally posted by Wombatman View Post
What the official play now re. PCR test and tracing \ informing close contacts?
Just gonna isolate and watch The Wheel of Time. Pharmacy are delivering us more tests and some new asthma inhalers as mine were a bit low. More worried about one of my cats who is definitely a bit off."I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostAs someone who only has a Netflix subscription and has pretty much stopped pirating I find it a problematic situation that it is random which streaming service might have a film or show. You would have to have subscriptions to Netflix, Prime, HBO Max, Disney, Apple to cover the bases. It is the randomness of checking whether Netflix has a film that bothers me. Not greatly mind you, but it is a barrier to not watching an illegal stream, given that I am not going to subscribe to all of them given how infrequently I watch something.
The point of these things were they were not just on-demand streams but aggregators and now they are getting increasingly segregated. Waiting now for a meta-streaming aggregator to subscribe to.
Being far less scrupulous than you I'll regularly download stuff and watch it on plex that I have paid for on some sub because its easier to find .
Similar for books which I'm much more enthusiastic about paying the creators for but I'm fckd if I'm paying more than the price of the paperback for an e copy, for instance of the new Frazen I'm reading at the moment, that I can't even share in family library, so I pirate a copy and buy a hard copy to give to someone who'll use it.
Turning millions into thousands
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Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View Post
Antigen positive is 99.6% accurate so I got the rona. It's the negatives that are ~80%ish iirc. Left a voicemail with the doctorb and will follow whatever advice they give, but I don't think a PCR is necessary. Have told everyone I was with since Friday.
Just gonna isolate and watch The Wheel of Time. Pharmacy are delivering us more tests and some new asthma inhalers as mine were a bit low. More worried about one of my cats who is definitely a bit off.
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostThe company he keeps is also somewhat revealing. Again suggestive as to motive and state of mind.
Seeing as we're in territory of joining dots.
Must rewatch American history x at some stage, I imagine it’s even more poignant in today’s times
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
No dodge, I genuinely don't know...and neither does anyone else.
As to Rittenhouse's, sorry Kyle's, state of mind and intentions though:- We know that he previously expressed a wish to shoot people weeks before the murders.
- We know that he previously punched a girl from behind
fucked up country, fucked up gun laws and a really messed up DA/Judge appointment sytem but at least in this particualr case the right result.
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Jebus. This reminds me of the time you guys were more concerned about the Norte Dame Cathedral being destroyed by fire, than you were about about the possible deaths of the firefighters. Think that was the moment when I lost interest in most peoples opinions. #JBravodoGone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.
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Originally posted by MysteryGuest View PostNow for an evening CNN being outraged while simultaneously creaming themselves at the ratings for the riotsGone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.
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Originally posted by RichieM View Post
Will have to go down in civil court first - be interesting to see if the victims family’s go down that route."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by premierstone View Post
lol blonde moment!
It is quite a good balanced account though, removes the hysteria and deals with the facts.
Although I agree that the verdict seems correct, anger is still justifiable. A black man is not walking there. Although, a black man would have been shot dead that night.I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Kinda why I mentioned OJ. What did he get done for in the civil suit, $30m or something huge?
Serious wishful thinking tho.
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
Even a site or plug in to Rotten Tomatoes or imdb that that that told you where to watch stuff based on your location and subs would be great.
Being far less scrupulous than you I'll regularly download stuff and watch it on plex that I have paid for on some sub because its easier to find .
Similar for books which I'm much more enthusiastic about paying the creators for but I'm fckd if I'm paying more than the price of the paperback for an e copy, for instance of the new Frazen I'm reading at the moment, that I can't even share in family library, so I pirate a copy and buy a hard copy to give to someone who'll use it.
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