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Originally posted by ComradeCollie View PostEnoch going back to the Joy https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...394352388.html"We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil
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Good turn out in Lawlors Hotel in Naas for the APT 20k gtd game. 58 entries for day 1A tonight. Day 1B on Saturday at 1pm, play until approx 6pm and "day 2" Saturday at 7pm.
50k stack, 25min clock, going to 30mins. 9 levels late reg. Might interest a few in the area or anyone looking for a good €200 game.
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Originally posted by MysteryGuest View PostI hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
Hard to know what a judge can do there. He just won't stop turning up somewhere he's not allowed to be. And there's kids involved. I'd say we all suspect he needs help rather than prison, but that doesn't seem to be an option.
I was thinking they should put security on the gates of the school to at least stop him going on school property but not sure that's the answer either.
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Originally posted by shrapnel View PostThese children's choirs singing the anthems are absolutely butchering the anthems. The Marseillaise yesterday was the worst ever, and that Italian anthem just nowwas an abomination.I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by Degag View Post
I was thinking they should put security on the gates of the school to at least stop him going on school property but not sure that's the answer either.
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Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View Post
I think the principal said they didn't want to go that route - school didn't want pupils to see a security presence on the grounds. Next step would be locked gates etc, not a good look.﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿
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This is a really interesting conversation on how mass data analysis is being used in poker, especially the insights shared by Nick Howard.
So Doug popularised the notion that you play purely GTO with little exploitation and allow your opponent's mistakes to generate the EV because our intuition is poor and often if we deviate we end up exploiting ourselves or we get into guessing games with the other player. MDA now takes millions of hands from the population playing poker online, categorizes them into profiles, and gives population tendencies so you can now take the equilibrium and adjust it to exploit based on the population data for that player type.
It is like the two schools of thought on poker, GTO and exploitative married together. Imagine this at the granular level where it is opponent-specific. So you have 100k hands on a player, you can take the equilibrium and adjust it based on their specific data. That is what players try to do currently but through data, you can now objectively arrive at the correct answer to exploit them maximally and garner the highest EV in every spot.
The other video is an interview with one of the biggest winners online on how he used this process.
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
Twitter is generally upstream of every other news source. Things trend there a week or two before other new sources. There are often stories on twitter that pop up here a few weeks later. Need to follow the right people though.
Hang on a sec ..(runs to window and yells at cloud)...ah that's better!
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Negreanu was briefly involved with some piece of training software that was based on GTO + exploit lines. They had some quiz doing the rounds about a year ago.
Hoping everyone is nearly fed up with NLHE now and comes to the mixed game arena! Would be class if GG ever expanded to stud and draw games. Surprised given their rec friendly business model they havent done so already.
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Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View Post
I think the principal said they didn't want to go that route - school didn't want pupils to see a security presence on the grounds. Next step would be locked gates etc, not a good look.
But yeah, it has its own pitfalls.
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Originally posted by zuutroy View PostNegreanu was briefly involved with some piece of training software that was based on GTO + exploit lines. They had some quiz doing the rounds about a year ago.
Hoping everyone is nearly fed up with NLHE now and comes to the mixed game arena! Would be class if GG ever expanded to stud and draw games. Surprised given their rec friendly business model they havent done so already.
The difference with MDA is that you are arriving at objective truth through data. You have a certain node that calls 30% on the river in GTO but from looking at population data you can see that a certain subsection of the population arrives in this with node zero bluffs so you fold everything. It is kind of perfect poker with the caveat that you are extrapolating from past data which only can be a prediction but that it is what we as humans try to do only a computer can do it far better and if they have access to millions of hands obviously has a proper significant sample to base those decisions on. You are creating as close to the perfect decision in a game of incomplete information as possible.
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Originally posted by Opr View Post
It was Hybrid poker. It uses some sort of AI to analyze your own play and give you feedback similar to stuff being integrated into all the other GTO solvers now. The exploits were more them teaching Daniel after he understood the baseline of why he would deviate.
The difference with MDA is that you are arriving at objective truth through data. You have a certain node that calls 30% on the river in GTO but from looking at population data you can see that a certain subsection of the population arrives in this with node zero bluffs so you fold everything. It is kind of perfect poker with the caveat that you are extrapolating from past data which only can be a prediction but that it is what we as humans try to do only a computer can do it far better and if they have access to millions of hands obviously has a proper significant sample to base those decisions on. You are creating as close to the perfect decision in a game of incomplete information as possible.
Is there something more systematic now or are people just more concerned about ethics?
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Originally posted by Murdrum View Post
The MDA discussion has been around years, people buying/selling hand histories to create the databases, bucketing players and utilising the information in their solves.
Is there something more systematic now or are people just more concerned about ethics?
Once you have vision over equilibrium that is really where the MDA becomes really powerful because you can work out exactly what the deviation should be in any spot. Specific solvers are one thing but we are at a point where this can be done in real time.
Even before you take that into account using MDA is still very niche according got Howard who said less than 10% of players use it. Generally, all the training content is around GTO. He describes it as kind of a mass delusion in that the solver gives you an answer which he can show through MDA is completely wrong.
The conversation was about what happens to games if the two get married in an easily accessible way similar to what Wizard did for GTO.
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Originally posted by dobby View PostGood turn out in Lawlors Hotel in Naas for the APT 20k gtd game. 58 entries for day 1A tonight. Day 1B on Saturday at 1pm, play until approx 6pm and "day 2" Saturday at 7pm.
50k stack, 25min clock, going to 30mins. 9 levels late reg. Might interest a few in the area or anyone looking for a good €200 game.
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Originally posted by Opr View Post
I think it is that we have a much deeper understanding of what is correct from a theoretical point of view and understand exact equilibrium from GTO. Solvers up until a few years ago were still quite niche, you needed huge computing power, and spots took forever to run. Now with the added element of huge databases to run spots instantly you can marry the two extremely well. AI is also now allowing you to do specific spots instantly.
Once you have vision over equilibrium that is really where the MDA becomes really powerful because you can work out exactly what the deviation should be in any spot. Specific solvers are one thing but we are at a point where this can be done in real time.
Even before you take that into account using MDA is still very niche according got Howard who said less than 10% of players use it. Generally, all the training content is around GTO. He describes it as kind of a mass delusion in that the solver gives you an answer which he can show through MDA is completely wrong.
The conversation was about what happens to games if the two get married in an easily accessible way similar to what Wizard did for GTO.
One of the seminars during that month happened to be using past 2 years of MDA exploits on a couple of spots and comparing to the solver.
Consensus seems to be from that group is that’s it’s a long standing issue which pisses people off but it’s far less of an issue than actual RTA use. Sure it’s incorporation into a real time solver furthers the problem but it’s just part of a broader issue of RTA use.
Anyway, I can’t imagine it will be possible to deliver anything to the masses like GTOWiz given the sharing of hand histories to create the required dataset isn’t allowed
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Originally posted by Murdrum View Post
I remember it coming up in a group I’m in around June/July so I’m guessing there was a Twitter conversation or something at that time.
One of the seminars during that month happened to be using past 2 years of MDA exploits on a couple of spots and comparing to the solver.
Consensus seems to be from that group is that’s it’s a long standing issue which pisses people off but it’s far less of an issue than actual RTA use. Sure it’s incorporation into a real time solver furthers the problem but it’s just part of a broader issue of RTA use.
Anyway, I can’t imagine it will be possible to deliver anything to the masses like GTOWiz given the sharing of hand histories to create the required dataset isn’t allowed
The site Howard owns is pokerdetox. They take people into a stable. Basically, you learn to play GTO to a decent standard. You then review your own database against the population database with their software and this gives you new heuristics where instead of hitting GTO baseline you have new targets based on your pool in the most common spots. They do this over and over until you are playing as close to perfect in that pool as you can. That is the training that Marinelli (crusher above) used to improve through them to the point of being the biggest winner on the American sites.
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Originally posted by Opr View Post
The site Howard owns is pokerdetox. They take people into a stable. Basically, you learn to play GTO to a decent standard. You then review your own database against the population database with their software and this gives you new heuristics where instead of hitting GTO baseline you have new targets based on your pool in the most common spots. They do this over and over until you are playing as close to perfect in that pool as you can. That is the training that Marinelli (crusher above) used to improve through them to the point of being the biggest winner on the American sites.
I could share an abundance of material with you where every second slide has 2-3 sims. Too tight, too loose, GTO and all the assumptions around why populations do x in near CEV vs ICM for example.
I suppose I just don’t know how this has become such a hot topic given if you go to any coaching/stable online, half the coaches will claim their expertise is population analysis.
Generally first session with a coach 1:1 will be running your hands through Hand 2 Note to flag outliers.
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Originally posted by Murdrum View Post
That’s effectively how all stables operate. No stable is teaching players by GTO specifically, everything is population specific such as sites, stakes, time of the day.
I could share an abundance of material with you where every second slide has 2-3 sims. Too tight, too loose, GTO and all the assumptions around why populations do x in near CEV vs ICM for example.
I suppose I just don’t know how this has become such a hot topic given if you go to any coaching/stable online, half the coaches will claim their expertise is population analysis.
Generally first session with a coach 1:1 will be running your hands through Hand 2 Note to flag outliers.
You are in a very specific group that takes poker seriously but I would say the number of people using this approach is currently low. I know online poker is on a death march anyway but if this ever became something that is commonly used it would be the complete end. You say the likes of GTO Wizard would find it hard to integrate seeing as it is against Terms. They aren't regulated by anyone and even if they feel they have too much to lose brand wise then another player will surely step up.
I think it is completely unethical to use databases with millions of mined hands to gain these edges. The vast majority of players don't have access to this information and it is against the terms.
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Originally posted by Opr View Post
I think it is completely unethical to use databases with millions of mined hands to gain these edges. The vast majority of players don't have access to this information and it is against the terms."We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
jaysus, its definitely not unethical to use extra knowledge to win a knowledge-game. Just because some people have decided that, doesn't make it true.
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Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View PostLots of fans still outside the Bordeaux stadium at kick-off as the tram system couldn't cope with numbers.
I assume our RD3 will have commandeered a helicopter using bank contacts.
The heat though."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by dobby View Post
63 entries today. Guarantee made. 3 levels left of late reg. Max late reg gets you in with 20bb
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Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View PostLots of fans still outside the Bordeaux stadium at kick-off as the tram system couldn't cope with numbers.
I assume our RD3 will have commandeered a helicopter using bank contacts.
We were getting the tram back, but there was a delay at some point which with the heat made it insufferable. We ended up abandoning the tram for escooters rentals back to the centre which was glorious fun.
Busy getting drunk at a random cafe now....No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.
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Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View PostLots of fans still outside the Bordeaux stadium at kick-off as the tram system couldn't cope with numbers.
I assume our RD3 will have commandeered a helicopter using bank contacts.
We were getting the tram back, but there was a delay at some point which with the heat made it insufferable. We ended up abandoning the tram for escooters rentals back to the centre which was glorious fun.
Busy getting drunk at a random cafe now....No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post"We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
it was a nice 24 hours. presuming there's no coming back for the Argies in the group. 800 years of oppression and now this.
Down to 27 degrees now at 11pm and starting to feel vaguely human. It's when you realise you've been drinking steadily all day yet just had your first piss in 10 hours that it hits you. Will continue the research."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
It's some achievement making a 14 man England look like a decent team.
Down to 27 degrees now at 11pm and starting to feel vaguely human. It's when you realise you've been drinking steadily all day yet just had your first piss in 10 hours that it hits you. Will continue the research."We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil
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Originally posted by Opr View PostI know online poker is on a death march anyway but if this ever became something that is commonly used it would be the complete end.
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
People have been saying that for 10 years now! You can still hop on and play 50/1 1/2 games where the regs are not playing properly preflop.
That gringo with the mustache has been bum hunting me across the internet
from his South American hideout.
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Originally posted by ionapaul View Post
You seem to really love live poker, which is so cool, loads of us were exactly the same back in the day - and I sorta wish I still had the same love for the game. Are average live players still as terrible as in years gone by? It is crazy when you think about it, that online $0.05/$0.10 cash probably is leagues tougher a game than a live €100 tournament.
I was dealing at the APT this weekend in Naas so had some skin in the game I suppose but have played a few of their games too and you won't get a better structure at any €200 game in Ireland, anywhere, so feel it's worth mentioning so they keep putting on player friendly tourneys.
I'll let someone else give their opinion on live players between now and then but I'd say the game has changed so much its probably not comparable but I only started playing in April 2022 so what do I know.
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Originally posted by MysteryGuest View PostIreland v Romania was an insult to sport- I’d be embarrassed to have attended let alone whinging like a soft cunt in the Irish times because I couldn’t buy water in the stadium
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His rival it seems, had broken his dreams,By stealing the girl of his fancy.Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil,But everyone knew her as Nancy.
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Originally posted by shrapnel View Post
Please explain why it was an insult to sport? No idea what this article was tbh
Ireland fans slam ‘poor’ organisation at Rugby World Cup as stadium runs out of water in 36-degree heat – The Irish Times
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As for 'insult to sport', I think Mystery Guest does have a point here. It was far below the minimum competitiveness you'd expect in a game branded as 'World Cup'.
Now this can happen in any game in any sport. Brazil can beat Cameroon 7-0, England cricketeers could bowl out Bangladesh for 30 runs in next months CWC etc.
But the difference would be that those wide margin results would be unexpected. Whereas Ireland v Romania was known in advance, with bookies hcaps in the vicinity of 60 points.
So imo, it's not a good look, and a fixture that ideally should not happen.
I don't know what the solution is though. There's seems to be a reluctance to have a smaller competition.
Comparisons are made with FIFAWC's and its 32 teams, but even with that number we still had countries like Chile, Colombia, Ivory Coast, Italy, Czechia, Sweden on the outside looking in last November - Countries that would be highly competitive and have previously made the final, semi-finals etc.
Whereas rugby seems to operate on the admirable basis that anyone who is in any way somewhat competitive (in the loosest meaning of the word) needs to be invited.
But that leads to some absolutely appalling match-ups that don't help either side.
In another universe, there's an incredible Rugby World Cup with 10 teams - 2 groups of 5, winners into semi's, 2nd and 3rd into quarter-finals. All 26 matches are compulsive viewing.
Or a 12 team competition with 3 groups of four and 8 going into quarter-finals.
16 might just about be fine but is stretching it.
20 is broken.
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Originally posted by dinekes View Post
Good luck Carmel!
She played Naas on Friday, got some horrible luck to bust and came back Saturday to try again, ran her Aces into a flush early and battled away. And then boom final table.
She just loves the game so great to see her get a run and bit of a touch.
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Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View Post
This is the IT article.
Ireland fans slam ‘poor’ organisation at Rugby World Cup as stadium runs out of water in 36-degree heat – The Irish Times
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As for 'insult to sport', I think Mystery Guest does have a point here. It was far below the minimum competitiveness you'd expect in a game branded as 'World Cup'.
Now this can happen in any game in any sport. Brazil can beat Cameroon 7-0, England cricketeers could bowl out Bangladesh for 30 runs in next months CWC etc.
But the difference would be that those wide margin results would be unexpected. Whereas Ireland v Romania was known in advance, with bookies hcaps in the vicinity of 60 points.
So imo, it's not a good look, and a fixture that ideally should not happen.
I don't know what the solution is though. There's seems to be a reluctance to have a smaller competition.
Comparisons are made with FIFAWC's and its 32 teams, but even with that number we still had countries like Chile, Colombia, Ivory Coast, Italy, Czechia, Sweden on the outside looking in last November - Countries that would be highly competitive and have previously made the final, semi-finals etc.
Whereas rugby seems to operate on the admirable basis that anyone who is in any way somewhat competitive (in the loosest meaning of the word) needs to be invited.
But that leads to some absolutely appalling match-ups that don't help either side.
In another universe, there's an incredible Rugby World Cup with 10 teams - 2 groups of 5, winners into semi's, 2nd and 3rd into quarter-finals. All 26 matches are compulsive viewing.
Or a 12 team competition with 3 groups of four and 8 going into quarter-finals.
16 might just about be fine but is stretching it.
20 is broken.
Early round of the World Cup be like tennis - early rounds usually akin to the early rounds of who wants to be a millionaire- we are all waiting for the 16k questions on.
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Originally posted by dobby View Post
Carmels a legend. I met her in the green Isle 2 weeks ago. She told me she couldn't play day 2, she was just up to play day 1 for the craic. That was in the 2nd last level with her going mad trying to bust and spinning a stack while breaking a few hearts
She played Naas on Friday, got some horrible luck to bust and came back Saturday to try again, ran her Aces into a flush early and battled away. And then boom final table.
She just loves the game so great to see her get a run and bit of a touch.
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Great craic going on with the kids football this season. The League (DDSL) decided it was now all of a sudden going to charge €30 a kid and all parents now have to register their kids 7-18 seperately with the league. Nice handy milion quid for the league.
They also now require photo and copy of passport for all kids. Mayhem. Matches 80% cancelled as no teams have full allocation of signed up players. Add in an alleged Data breach by hackers already, the FAI getting involved, parents and now the Data Commissioner, its a right shitshow.
Of course its all us managers fault
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Originally posted by Dice75 View PostGreat craic going on with the kids football this season. The League (DDSL) decided it was now all of a sudden going to charge €30 a kid and all parents now have to register their kids 7-18 seperately with the league. Nice handy milion quid for the league.
They also now require photo and copy of passport for all kids. Mayhem. Matches 80% cancelled as no teams have full allocation of signed up players. Add in an alleged Data breach by hackers already, the FAI getting involved, parents and now the Data Commissioner, its a right shitshow.
Of course its all us managers fault
Lad that worked in the shop (great soccer player- youths international Sweden) was assistant mgr on one of the kids teams. Was shitting himself one day as it was "who makes first team " that evening. I was laughing and doing the Homer Simpson "millhouse you're cut!" routine He was genuinely terrified though. Apparently the parents go fucking mental if their kid doesn't make the first team. Angry phone calls etc.
You would think they'd be happy just to have them doing something active.
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Originally posted by dinekes View Post
Lad that worked in the shop (great soccer player- youths international Sweden) was assistant mgr on one of the kids teams. Was shitting himself one day as it was "who makes first team " that evening. I was laughing and doing the Homer Simpson "millhouse you're cut!" routine He was genuinely terrified though. Apparently the parents go fucking mental if their kid doesn't make the first team. Angry phone calls etc.
You would think they'd be happy just to have them doing something active.
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