Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - It's the end of the world as we know it

[Lazare]

5F6D7350-65C9-4607-9674-A583ABB174D6.jpeg

Puke

[Lazare]

Replies are awesome

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

Enoch going back to the Joy https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...394352388.html

Hard to know what a judge can do there. He just won't stop turning up somewhere he's not allowed to be. And there's kids involved. I'd say we all suspect he needs help rather than prison, but that doesn't seem to be an option.

[ArmaniJeans]

Definitely a night for sleeping in the garden.

[dobby]

Good turn out in Lawlors Hotel in Naas for the APT 20k gtd game. 58 entries for day 1A tonight. Day 1B on Saturday at 1pm, play until approx 6pm and "day 2" Saturday at 7pm.

50k stack, 25min clock, going to 30mins. 9 levels late reg. Might interest a few in the area or anyone looking for a good €200 game.

[Lazare]

5F6D7350-65C9-4607-9674-A583ABB174D6.jpeg

[balfejohn]

No more porter 5.40 leopardstown
nice ew bet

[Lazare]

Definitely a night for sleeping in the garden.

I slept out on the trampoline one night last year.

Novelty wore off at about 4am

[Degag]

Hard to know what a judge can do there. He just won't stop turning up somewhere he's not allowed to be. And there's kids involved. I'd say we all suspect he needs help rather than prison, but that doesn't seem to be an option.

The whole thing is utterly bizarre. He's probably going to go to jail again for a few months after which he will be freed and do the same thing again. It sounds extreme to say it but he probably shouldn't be released from prison until he repents, but he won't.

I was thinking they should put security on the gates of the school to at least stop him going on school property but not sure that's the answer either.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

I slept out on the trampoline one night last year.

Novelty wore off at about 4am

Sounds like you had a few ups and downs

[Lazare]

Sounds like you had a few ups and downs

Was gonna do two nights on the bounce but it wasn't comfortable enough.

[shrapnel]

These children's choirs singing the anthems are absolutely butchering the anthems. The Marseillaise yesterday was the worst ever, and that Italian anthem just nowwas an abomination.

[Lazare]

These children's choirs singing the anthems are absolutely butchering the anthems. The Marseillaise yesterday was the worst ever, and that Italian anthem just nowwas an abomination.

Fuck Dem Kids

[ArmaniJeans]

I was thinking they should put security on the gates of the school to at least stop him going on school property but not sure that's the answer either.

I think the principal said they didn't want to go that route - school didn't want pupils to see a security presence on the grounds. Next step would be locked gates etc, not a good look.

[Micknail]

Replies are awesome

The monetisation of posts are going to lead to some awful level of basic attention seeking.

[Micknail]

I think the principal said they didn't want to go that route - school didn't want pupils to see a security presence on the grounds. Next step would be locked gates etc, not a good look.

They could be smart about it, have some building work going on onsite, need everyone to sign in to be allowed access etc, bar him on health and safety grounds etc.

[Opr]

This is a really interesting conversation on how mass data analysis is being used in poker, especially the insights shared by Nick Howard.

So Doug popularised the notion that you play purely GTO with little exploitation and allow your opponent's mistakes to generate the EV because our intuition is poor and often if we deviate we end up exploiting ourselves or we get into guessing games with the other player. MDA now takes millions of hands from the population playing poker online, categorizes them into profiles, and gives population tendencies so you can now take the equilibrium and adjust it to exploit based on the population data for that player type.

It is like the two schools of thought on poker, GTO and exploitative married together. Imagine this at the granular level where it is opponent-specific. So you have 100k hands on a player, you can take the equilibrium and adjust it based on their specific data. That is what players try to do currently but through data, you can now objectively arrive at the correct answer to exploit them maximally and garner the highest EV in every spot.

The other video is an interview with one of the biggest winners online on how he used this process.

[dinekes]

Twitter is generally upstream of every other news source. Things trend there a week or two before other new sources. There are often stories on twitter that pop up here a few weeks later. Need to follow the right people though.

Not worth wading through the noise for me anyway.
Hang on a sec ..(runs to window and yells at cloud)...ah that's better!

[zuutroy]

Negreanu was briefly involved with some piece of training software that was based on GTO + exploit lines. They had some quiz doing the rounds about a year ago.

Hoping everyone is nearly fed up with NLHE now and comes to the mixed game arena! Would be class if GG ever expanded to stud and draw games. Surprised given their rec friendly business model they havent done so already.

[Degag]

I think the principal said they didn't want to go that route - school didn't want pupils to see a security presence on the grounds. Next step would be locked gates etc, not a good look.

Would have thought a security presence would be less intrusive than some mad fella constantly standing outside the building or inside the corridors.

But yeah, it has its own pitfalls.

[Opr]

Negreanu was briefly involved with some piece of training software that was based on GTO + exploit lines. They had some quiz doing the rounds about a year ago.

Hoping everyone is nearly fed up with NLHE now and comes to the mixed game arena! Would be class if GG ever expanded to stud and draw games. Surprised given their rec friendly business model they havent done so already.

It was Hybrid poker. It uses some sort of AI to analyze your own play and give you feedback similar to stuff being integrated into all the other GTO solvers now. The exploits were more them teaching Daniel after he understood the baseline of why he would deviate.

The difference with MDA is that you are arriving at objective truth through data. You have a certain node that calls 30% on the river in GTO but from looking at population data you can see that a certain subsection of the population arrives in this with node zero bluffs so you fold everything. It is kind of perfect poker with the caveat that you are extrapolating from past data which only can be a prediction but that it is what we as humans try to do only a computer can do it far better and if they have access to millions of hands obviously has a proper significant sample to base those decisions on. You are creating as close to the perfect decision in a game of incomplete information as possible.

[Solksjaer!]

Was gonna do two nights on the bounce but it wasn't comfortable enough.

Was called a jumpoline until yore momma slept on it.

[Solksjaer!]

Didn't wanna big up any more wimmin commentating on Sports but i like Laura Davis in the golf. The antithesis of Monty.

[Murdrum]

It was Hybrid poker. It uses some sort of AI to analyze your own play and give you feedback similar to stuff being integrated into all the other GTO solvers now. The exploits were more them teaching Daniel after he understood the baseline of why he would deviate.

The difference with MDA is that you are arriving at objective truth through data. You have a certain node that calls 30% on the river in GTO but from looking at population data you can see that a certain subsection of the population arrives in this with node zero bluffs so you fold everything. It is kind of perfect poker with the caveat that you are extrapolating from past data which only can be a prediction but that it is what we as humans try to do only a computer can do it far better and if they have access to millions of hands obviously has a proper significant sample to base those decisions on. You are creating as close to the perfect decision in a game of incomplete information as possible.

The MDA discussion has been around years, people buying/selling hand histories to create the databases, bucketing players and utilising the information in their solves.

Is there something more systematic now or are people just more concerned about ethics?

[ArmaniJeans]

Lots of fans still outside the Bordeaux stadium at kick-off as the tram system couldn't cope with numbers.
I assume our RD3 will have commandeered a helicopter using bank contacts.

[Opr]

The MDA discussion has been around years, people buying/selling hand histories to create the databases, bucketing players and utilising the information in their solves.

Is there something more systematic now or are people just more concerned about ethics?

I think it is that we have a much deeper understanding of what is correct from a theoretical point of view and understand exact equilibrium from GTO. Solvers up until a few years ago were still quite niche, you needed huge computing power, and spots took forever to run. Now with the added element of huge databases to run spots instantly you can marry the two extremely well. AI is also now allowing you to do specific spots instantly.

Once you have vision over equilibrium that is really where the MDA becomes really powerful because you can work out exactly what the deviation should be in any spot. Specific solvers are one thing but we are at a point where this can be done in real time.

Even before you take that into account using MDA is still very niche according got Howard who said less than 10% of players use it. Generally, all the training content is around GTO. He describes it as kind of a mass delusion in that the solver gives you an answer which he can show through MDA is completely wrong.

The conversation was about what happens to games if the two get married in an easily accessible way similar to what Wizard did for GTO.

[oleras]

So strange having a cameraman on the pitch, Vera would not approve...

[dobby]

Good turn out in Lawlors Hotel in Naas for the APT 20k gtd game. 58 entries for day 1A tonight. Day 1B on Saturday at 1pm, play until approx 6pm and "day 2" Saturday at 7pm.

50k stack, 25min clock, going to 30mins. 9 levels late reg. Might interest a few in the area or anyone looking for a good €200 game.

63 entries today. Guarantee made. 3 levels left of late reg. Max late reg gets you in with 20bb

[Murdrum]

I think it is that we have a much deeper understanding of what is correct from a theoretical point of view and understand exact equilibrium from GTO. Solvers up until a few years ago were still quite niche, you needed huge computing power, and spots took forever to run. Now with the added element of huge databases to run spots instantly you can marry the two extremely well. AI is also now allowing you to do specific spots instantly.

Once you have vision over equilibrium that is really where the MDA becomes really powerful because you can work out exactly what the deviation should be in any spot. Specific solvers are one thing but we are at a point where this can be done in real time.

Even before you take that into account using MDA is still very niche according got Howard who said less than 10% of players use it. Generally, all the training content is around GTO. He describes it as kind of a mass delusion in that the solver gives you an answer which he can show through MDA is completely wrong.

The conversation was about what happens to games if the two get married in an easily accessible way similar to what Wizard did for GTO.

I remember it coming up in a group I’m in around June/July so I’m guessing there was a Twitter conversation or something at that time.
One of the seminars during that month happened to be using past 2 years of MDA exploits on a couple of spots and comparing to the solver.

Consensus seems to be from that group is that’s it’s a long standing issue which pisses people off but it’s far less of an issue than actual RTA use. Sure it’s incorporation into a real time solver furthers the problem but it’s just part of a broader issue of RTA use.

Anyway, I can’t imagine it will be possible to deliver anything to the masses like GTOWiz given the sharing of hand histories to create the required dataset isn’t allowed

[Opr]

I remember it coming up in a group I’m in around June/July so I’m guessing there was a Twitter conversation or something at that time.
One of the seminars during that month happened to be using past 2 years of MDA exploits on a couple of spots and comparing to the solver.

Consensus seems to be from that group is that’s it’s a long standing issue which pisses people off but it’s far less of an issue than actual RTA use. Sure it’s incorporation into a real time solver furthers the problem but it’s just part of a broader issue of RTA use.

Anyway, I can’t imagine it will be possible to deliver anything to the masses like GTOWiz given the sharing of hand histories to create the required dataset isn’t allowed

I guess you completely lower the barrier to RTA use. To use RTA well the person generally needs some sort of poker knowledge and acumen. To not get caught you also need to be hiding it because I presume the sites are running some sort of GTO check against big winners to see how close they are playing. I think Stars do this and ask suspect players to play on cam for a session to see if they replicate it. If you also have population data the person using RTA now has his deviations built in and needs to know even less about poker all while playing even better. I mean the two combined would be more or less the perfect poker bot.

The site Howard owns is pokerdetox. They take people into a stable. Basically, you learn to play GTO to a decent standard. You then review your own database against the population database with their software and this gives you new heuristics where instead of hitting GTO baseline you have new targets based on your pool in the most common spots. They do this over and over until you are playing as close to perfect in that pool as you can. That is the training that Marinelli (crusher above) used to improve through them to the point of being the biggest winner on the American sites.

[Murdrum]

The site Howard owns is pokerdetox. They take people into a stable. Basically, you learn to play GTO to a decent standard. You then review your own database against the population database with their software and this gives you new heuristics where instead of hitting GTO baseline you have new targets based on your pool in the most common spots. They do this over and over until you are playing as close to perfect in that pool as you can. That is the training that Marinelli (crusher above) used to improve through them to the point of being the biggest winner on the American sites.

That’s effectively how all stables operate. No stable is teaching players by GTO specifically, everything is population specific such as sites, stakes, time of the day.

I could share an abundance of material with you where every second slide has 2-3 sims. Too tight, too loose, GTO and all the assumptions around why populations do x in near CEV vs ICM for example.

I suppose I just don’t know how this has become such a hot topic given if you go to any coaching/stable online, half the coaches will claim their expertise is population analysis.
Generally first session with a coach 1:1 will be running your hands through Hand 2 Note to flag outliers.

[Opr]

That’s effectively how all stables operate. No stable is teaching players by GTO specifically, everything is population specific such as sites, stakes, time of the day.

I could share an abundance of material with you where every second slide has 2-3 sims. Too tight, too loose, GTO and all the assumptions around why populations do x in near CEV vs ICM for example.

I suppose I just don’t know how this has become such a hot topic given if you go to any coaching/stable online, half the coaches will claim their expertise is population analysis.
Generally first session with a coach 1:1 will be running your hands through Hand 2 Note to flag outliers.

It was more just a topic Matt decided to do a podcast on than something that is currently hot and he invited different people to come on with different perspectives to chat about it. He invited some site representatives and others to come on but most didn't want to discuss it. I had no idea that level of analysis was going on.

You are in a very specific group that takes poker seriously but I would say the number of people using this approach is currently low. I know online poker is on a death march anyway but if this ever became something that is commonly used it would be the complete end. You say the likes of GTO Wizard would find it hard to integrate seeing as it is against Terms. They aren't regulated by anyone and even if they feel they have too much to lose brand wise then another player will surely step up.

I think it is completely unethical to use databases with millions of mined hands to gain these edges. The vast majority of players don't have access to this information and it is against the terms.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

I think it is completely unethical to use databases with millions of mined hands to gain these edges. The vast majority of players don't have access to this information and it is against the terms.

jaysus, its definitely not unethical to use extra knowledge to win a knowledge-game. Just because some people have decided that, doesn't make it true.

[Opr]

jaysus, its definitely not unethical to use extra knowledge to win a knowledge-game. Just because some people have decided that, doesn't make it true.

How that information is obtained is surely relevant. The people on UltimateBet who could see the other player's hole card while playing online just had extra information.

[Raoul Duke III]

Lots of fans still outside the Bordeaux stadium at kick-off as the tram system couldn't cope with numbers.
I assume our RD3 will have commandeered a helicopter using bank contacts.

Didn't seem to be a problem imo. Everyone was in their seats by kickoff and the organisation was fairly impeccable.

The heat though.

[ionapaul]

63 entries today. Guarantee made. 3 levels left of late reg. Max late reg gets you in with 20bb

You seem to really love live poker, which is so cool, loads of us were exactly the same back in the day - and I sorta wish I still had the same love for the game. Are average live players still as terrible as in years gone by? It is crazy when you think about it, that online $0.05/$0.10 cash probably is leagues tougher a game than a live €100 tournament.

[pokerhand]

Lots of fans still outside the Bordeaux stadium at kick-off as the tram system couldn't cope with numbers.
I assume our RD3 will have commandeered a helicopter using bank contacts.

Mad getting to the game alright, tram queue was impossible so we ended up getting an Uber. Very though getting drinks at the stadium.

We were getting the tram back, but there was a delay at some point which with the heat made it insufferable. We ended up abandoning the tram for escooters rentals back to the centre which was glorious fun.

Busy getting drunk at a random cafe now....

[pokerhand]

Lots of fans still outside the Bordeaux stadium at kick-off as the tram system couldn't cope with numbers.
I assume our RD3 will have commandeered a helicopter using bank contacts.

Mad getting to the game alright, tram queue was impossible so we ended up getting an Uber. Very tough getting drinks at the stadium.

We were getting the tram back, but there was a delay at some point which with the heat made it insufferable. We ended up abandoning the tram for escooters rentals back to the centre which was glorious fun.

Busy getting drunk at a random cafe now....

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

Went with this treble at 7.35 for the rugby. Free money. Every bookie in tears. Ringing up joe wondering where is their bailout joe.

• World Cup
  • France
    @5/6
    Pool Winner A
• World Cup
  • Ireland
    @11/10
    Pool Winner B
• World Cup
  • Argentina
    @10/11
    Pool Winner D

it was a nice 24 hours. presuming there's no coming back for the Argies in the group. 800 years of oppression and now this.

[Raoul Duke III]

it was a nice 24 hours. presuming there's no coming back for the Argies in the group. 800 years of oppression and now this.

It's some achievement making a 14 man England look like a decent team.

Down to 27 degrees now at 11pm and starting to feel vaguely human. It's when you realise you've been drinking steadily all day yet just had your first piss in 10 hours that it hits you. Will continue the research.

[MysteryGuest]

Ireland v Romania was an insult to sport- I’d be embarrassed to have attended let alone whinging like a soft cunt in the Irish times because I couldn’t buy water in the stadium

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

It's some achievement making a 14 man England look like a decent team.

Down to 27 degrees now at 11pm and starting to feel vaguely human. It's when you realise you've been drinking steadily all day yet just had your first piss in 10 hours that it hits you. Will continue the research.

Without wanting to sound like your mother - our big Florida thing, where it was an atrocious temperature every day, was to drink water with electrolytes in the morning. Every pharmacy has it in sachets that you can just pour into your morning drink of choice. It'll keep the base protected for the day and then - and this is the glorious bit (awaiting final academic review) you can just drink whatever truck-sized amount of wine you want for the rest of the day knowing you woke up and made the right choice.

[dinekes]

Looking out my main apartment main window at trees .

Forgotten how relaxing it is to just sit and look.

[Hectorjelly]

I know online poker is on a death march anyway but if this ever became something that is commonly used it would be the complete end.

People have been saying that for 10 years now! You can still hop on and play 50/1 1/2 games where the regs are not playing properly preflop.

[DeeBrown]

People have been saying that for 10 years now! You can still hop on and play 50/1 1/2 games where the regs are not playing properly preflop.

My suspicions have been confirmed.
That gringo with the mustache has been bum hunting me across the internet
from his South American hideout.

[dobby]

You seem to really love live poker, which is so cool, loads of us were exactly the same back in the day - and I sorta wish I still had the same love for the game. Are average live players still as terrible as in years gone by? It is crazy when you think about it, that online $0.05/$0.10 cash probably is leagues tougher a game than a live €100 tournament.

Yeah, I still enjoy the live game. I hate online and rarely play, when I do its usually a satellite to a live event.

I was dealing at the APT this weekend in Naas so had some skin in the game I suppose but have played a few of their games too and you won't get a better structure at any €200 game in Ireland, anywhere, so feel it's worth mentioning so they keep putting on player friendly tourneys.

I'll let someone else give their opinion on live players between now and then but I'd say the game has changed so much its probably not comparable but I only started playing in April 2022 so what do I know.

[dobby]

Final table here if anyone recognises anyone

[pokerhand]

Final table here if anyone recognises anyone

I recognise 3, not 100% on the 4th. Bunch of old farts

[horatio1]

Have 2 spare tickets to Irish Open today. If anyone wants them I can email them.

[Solksjaer!]

Have 2 spare tickets to Irish Open today. If anyone wants them I can email them.

Yer a decent man. Fect it I would have been all over that. Momma minding day.

[dinekes]

Final table here if anyone recognises anyone

Good luck Carmel!

[shrapnel]

Ireland v Romania was an insult to sport- I’d be embarrassed to have attended let alone whinging like a soft cunt in the Irish times because I couldn’t buy water in the stadium

Please explain why it was an insult to sport? No idea what this article was tbh

[elbows]

Wife is doing a walk for CF today. Any donations would be greatly appreciated.

https://gofund.me/b1c2bbfb

[ArmaniJeans]

Please explain why it was an insult to sport? No idea what this article was tbh

This is the IT article.
Ireland fans slam ‘poor’ organisation at Rugby World Cup as stadium runs out of water in 36-degree heat – The Irish Times

****
As for 'insult to sport', I think Mystery Guest does have a point here. It was far below the minimum competitiveness you'd expect in a game branded as 'World Cup'.
Now this can happen in any game in any sport. Brazil can beat Cameroon 7-0, England cricketeers could bowl out Bangladesh for 30 runs in next months CWC etc.
But the difference would be that those wide margin results would be unexpected. Whereas Ireland v Romania was known in advance, with bookies hcaps in the vicinity of 60 points.
So imo, it's not a good look, and a fixture that ideally should not happen.

I don't know what the solution is though. There's seems to be a reluctance to have a smaller competition.
Comparisons are made with FIFAWC's and its 32 teams, but even with that number we still had countries like Chile, Colombia, Ivory Coast, Italy, Czechia, Sweden on the outside looking in last November - Countries that would be highly competitive and have previously made the final, semi-finals etc.

Whereas rugby seems to operate on the admirable basis that anyone who is in any way somewhat competitive (in the loosest meaning of the word) needs to be invited.
But that leads to some absolutely appalling match-ups that don't help either side.
In another universe, there's an incredible Rugby World Cup with 10 teams - 2 groups of 5, winners into semi's, 2nd and 3rd into quarter-finals. All 26 matches are compulsive viewing.
Or a 12 team competition with 3 groups of four and 8 going into quarter-finals.
16 might just about be fine but is stretching it.
20 is broken.

[dobby]

Good luck Carmel!

Carmels a legend. I met her in the green Isle 2 weeks ago. She told me she couldn't play day 2, she was just up to play day 1 for the craic. That was in the 2nd last level with her going mad trying to bust and spinning a stack while breaking a few hearts

She played Naas on Friday, got some horrible luck to bust and came back Saturday to try again, ran her Aces into a flush early and battled away. And then boom final table.

She just loves the game so great to see her get a run and bit of a touch.

[Solksjaer!]

This is the IT article.
Ireland fans slam ‘poor’ organisation at Rugby World Cup as stadium runs out of water in 36-degree heat – The Irish Times

****
As for 'insult to sport', I think Mystery Guest does have a point here. It was far below the minimum competitiveness you'd expect in a game branded as 'World Cup'.
Now this can happen in any game in any sport. Brazil can beat Cameroon 7-0, England cricketeers could bowl out Bangladesh for 30 runs in next months CWC etc.
But the difference would be that those wide margin results would be unexpected. Whereas Ireland v Romania was known in advance, with bookies hcaps in the vicinity of 60 points.
So imo, it's not a good look, and a fixture that ideally should not happen.

I don't know what the solution is though. There's seems to be a reluctance to have a smaller competition.
Comparisons are made with FIFAWC's and its 32 teams, but even with that number we still had countries like Chile, Colombia, Ivory Coast, Italy, Czechia, Sweden on the outside looking in last November - Countries that would be highly competitive and have previously made the final, semi-finals etc.

Whereas rugby seems to operate on the admirable basis that anyone who is in any way somewhat competitive (in the loosest meaning of the word) needs to be invited.
But that leads to some absolutely appalling match-ups that don't help either side.
In another universe, there's an incredible Rugby World Cup with 10 teams - 2 groups of 5, winners into semi's, 2nd and 3rd into quarter-finals. All 26 matches are compulsive viewing.
Or a 12 team competition with 3 groups of four and 8 going into quarter-finals.
16 might just about be fine but is stretching it.
20 is broken.

Imo it pales in comparison to the total fk up lopsided nature of the draw .

Early round of the World Cup be like tennis - early rounds usually akin to the early rounds of who wants to be a millionaire- we are all waiting for the 16k questions on.

[dinekes]

Carmels a legend. I met her in the green Isle 2 weeks ago. She told me she couldn't play day 2, she was just up to play day 1 for the craic. That was in the 2nd last level with her going mad trying to bust and spinning a stack while breaking a few hearts

She played Naas on Friday, got some horrible luck to bust and came back Saturday to try again, ran her Aces into a flush early and battled away. And then boom final table.

She just loves the game so great to see her get a run and bit of a touch.

Knew her from the Fitz, soundest person you could meet.

[Dice75]

Great craic going on with the kids football this season. The League (DDSL) decided it was now all of a sudden going to charge €30 a kid and all parents now have to register their kids 7-18 seperately with the league. Nice handy milion quid for the league.

They also now require photo and copy of passport for all kids. Mayhem. Matches 80% cancelled as no teams have full allocation of signed up players. Add in an alleged Data breach by hackers already, the FAI getting involved, parents and now the Data Commissioner, its a right shitshow.

Of course its all us managers fault

[dinekes]

Great craic going on with the kids football this season. The League (DDSL) decided it was now all of a sudden going to charge €30 a kid and all parents now have to register their kids 7-18 seperately with the league. Nice handy milion quid for the league.

They also now require photo and copy of passport for all kids. Mayhem. Matches 80% cancelled as no teams have full allocation of signed up players. Add in an alleged Data breach by hackers already, the FAI getting involved, parents and now the Data Commissioner, its a right shitshow.

Of course its all us managers fault

Lad that worked in the shop (great soccer player- youths international Sweden) was assistant mgr on one of the kids teams. Was shitting himself one day as it was "who makes first team " that evening. I was laughing and doing the Homer Simpson "millhouse you're cut!" routine He was genuinely terrified though. Apparently the parents go fucking mental if their kid doesn't make the first team. Angry phone calls etc.
You would think they'd be happy just to have them doing something active.

[Dice75]

Lad that worked in the shop (great soccer player- youths international Sweden) was assistant mgr on one of the kids teams. Was shitting himself one day as it was "who makes first team " that evening. I was laughing and doing the Homer Simpson "millhouse you're cut!" routine He was genuinely terrified though. Apparently the parents go fucking mental if their kid doesn't make the first team. Angry phone calls etc.
You would think they'd be happy just to have them doing something active.

You need a thick skin alright.