Originally posted by Wombatman
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That guy does seem very unfortunate. She woke up and he was feeling her breasts, she asked him to stop and he did.
What do you do when from the woman's perspective that constitutes sexual violence and leads to suicidal ideation.
Hard not to think most women would laugh that type of thing off.
Guy is a sex offender, for the rest of his life.
I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by Mellor View Post
Spot on. At the top George Street in the Rocks, beside Circular Quay. The windows (and entrance) on the other side face The Mercantile. anyone whose been to Sydney has probably had a pint there.
I'm old."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View Post
This week does seem strange though. There's a 'normal' ~150 hotels available in all price ranges this day next week, but next to nothing tonight or Wed/Thurs.
There doesn't seem to be any 'event' on to explain it. Or maybe there's some yoof thing on we don't know about.﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿
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A case to be made for blaming society, particularly social media for how that woman feels.
It does seem the range of what constitutes victimhood has been broadened massively.
Overall that's likely a positive thing, but in cases like that one, you'd have to think, had it happened 20 years ago neither party would have experienced negativity from it.
I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Think I spent the last night of the 2000 Olympics down by that spot. Pretty touristy iirc.
I'm old.
It's walking distance to the Opera house, Cruise ship passenger terminal, so yeah you'll get plenty or tourists. The odd gimmicky "Carrols" type shop.
Also a few good hidden bars if you know where to look. Paint door on a cobbled street, whisky bar in the basement type.
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Originally posted by Lazare View Post
Yeah, maybe.
An uncomfortable thing to be discussing tbh.
We obviously only know the bare facts as presented there, and there is likely a lot more context that we don't know, which could colour things in either direction really.
Very much reinforces though that when it comes to these things, people should always be sure of consent before any actions, especially with a relative stranger. Things are likely better than they were years ago in this regard, but I'm obviously only guessing there. Hopefully they are, but there is still a ways to go.
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Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View PostThat bit of Sydney has the worst seagulls I've ever encountered. Vicious, malevolent and cunning. Absolute bastards of the highest order.
Even those cute looking cockatoos would steal the lunch off your lap. It's a jungle out there, unfit for civilised individuals."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by 6starpool View Post
On the one hand, if it is as described - they went home together, did some consensual stuff short of actual sex, went asleep, he started to feel horny and was on her feeling her up when she woke and stopped when she said stop - then I'd imagine it isn't dissimilar to 100's of encounters every weekend especially in this country. There was absolutely a line crossed when he started doing it when she was asleep and this should not have happened and is not ok, but it definitely seems like the ultimate outcome is harsh on him to an extent. We can't obviously tell her how to feel about the situation and while many would have had different reactions from essentially shrugging it off to a bit pissed off, it obviously affected her pretty deeply.
We obviously only know the bare facts as presented there, and there is likely a lot more context that we don't know, which could colour things in either direction really.
Very much reinforces though that when it comes to these things, people should always be sure of consent before any actions, especially with a relative stranger. Things are likely better than they were years ago in this regard, but I'm obviously only guessing there. Hopefully they are, but there is still a ways to go.
It reminds me of this fallacy - https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yCWP...t-in-the-world
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Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View PostThat bit of Sydney has the worst seagulls I've ever encountered. Vicious, malevolent and cunning. Absolute bastards of the highest order.
The bars/restaurants under the Opera house seem to have a bit of solution. They have handlers with dogs on the waterfront. And the dogs chase the seagulls aware from the bar.
Over time I suppose they'll start to stop going there at all. Obviously they'll just piss off somewhere else. But we just need a smart doggie everywhere.
It's actually a local dog walking company. They found certain dogs/breeds were mad to chase birds and trained them. Offer the service as a trial and are now are signed up for a few years. Genius stuff. Dogs are amazing.
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Day 1 of leg log.
I called the hospital today to get an appointment with my specialist. first response was no new appointments till next year. not good. i then called his secretary, pleading for an emergency appointment with him or a registrar, anybody really as all that's going to happen is them telling me to get lots of scans in order to assess the damage and rebuild parts to replace the broken one. From experience, i know the building phase is the longest so all i want to do is initiate the process, after that, mentally i know i can cope once we get to that stage.
unfortunately, the secretary tells me that his only registrar (he used to have 3 or 4 as it's one of the most highly sought and recognised specialisations in the field, ask bubbleking) is off on maternity leave shortly. She said she'd speak to her boss and get back to me. no response today. hopefully she gets back to me tomorrow
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SF election worker who robbed pensioner committed ‘appalling crime’ – Ó Broin
Can you imagine how he'll react when he finds out that he sits in the Dáil alongside a mass murderer
Turning millions into thousands
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Just caught up on the last 2 episodes of Better Call Saul. It's definitely a show that has grown through the seasons. So much thought goes into the details.
SPOILERPretty grim ending for Howard. Just chilling stuff. Lalo is a top tier villain tbf. Gonna be a long 6 weeks for the 2nd part of the season. Kim surely has to be on the next bus to GTFO
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Originally posted by coillcam View PostJust caught up on the last 2 episodes of Better Call Saul. It's definitely a show that has grown through the seasons. So much thought goes into the details.
SPOILERPretty grim ending for Howard. Just chilling stuff. Lalo is a top tier villain tbf. Gonna be a long 6 weeks for the 2nd part of the season. Kim surely has to be on the next bus to GTFOSPOILERisn't he just (Lalo). Has just this aura about him."We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil
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Originally posted by Dice75 View PostIf roles had been reversed and the man had reported it (unlikely as that may be) would she be put on the Sex Offenders List
Edit - that sounds a bit like I'm condoning his actions, I'm not, I'm more just curious.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Lazare View PostA case to be made for blaming society, particularly social media for how that woman feels.
It does seem the range of what constitutes victimhood has been broadened massively.
Overall that's likely a positive thing, but in cases like that one, you'd have to think, had it happened 20 years ago neither party would have experienced negativity from it.
Women have suffered from constant, unrelenting, unwelcome male attention in silence for so long that even mentioning the actual timespan seems hyperbolic. Now, to be clear, I am not saying that every woman hates every uninvited sexualised encounter or that every woman experiences this sort of constant unwelcome attention in the same way. Not one bit. But the fact is that women get groped, leered at, shouted at, abused and sexualised constantly and in insidious ways that we don't always even realise or that we tend to minimise as if "ah, it's nothing".
20 years ago (2002 remember) if a woman woke up in bed with a man she had slept with, voluntarily, to discover that he had decided to start groping her while she was unconscious for his own sexual pleasure I suspect she would reasonably be expected to have a reaction anywhere from "hell yeah, let's go" to "get the fuck off me you disgusting pervert".
The fact is that once you decide that consent is not necessary or that previous consent is the same as permanent consent then, as a man or a woman but particularly as a man, you are accepting a very high degree of risk. You should not be doing it, full stop. But if you do and the person you've decided to grope while unconscious doesn't decide they're ok with it then welcome to the criminal justice system my friend. Because the guy who does that deserves to be convicted.
Imagining a past where women didn't feel they could speak out about these things and recasting it as better days when women wouldn't have felt that a little unconscious groping was a bad thing is, I hate to say, just wrong mate.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
I think you're somewhere between 98 and 100% wrong about this Lazare, and that's unfortunate.
Women have suffered from constant, unrelenting, unwelcome male attention in silence for so long that even mentioning the actual timespan seems hyperbolic. Now, to be clear, I am not saying that every woman hates every uninvited sexualised encounter or that every woman experiences this sort of constant unwelcome attention in the same way. Not one bit. But the fact is that women get groped, leered at, shouted at, abused and sexualised constantly and in insidious ways that we don't always even realise or that we tend to minimise as if "ah, it's nothing".
20 years ago (2002 remember) if a woman woke up in bed with a man she had slept with, voluntarily, to discover that he had decided to start groping her while she was unconscious for his own sexual pleasure I suspect she would reasonably be expected to have a reaction anywhere from "hell yeah, let's go" to "get the fuck off me you disgusting pervert".
The fact is that once you decide that consent is not necessary or that previous consent is the same as permanent consent then, as a man or a woman but particularly as a man, you are accepting a very high degree of risk. You should not be doing it, full stop. But if you do and the person you've decided to grope while unconscious doesn't decide they're ok with it then welcome to the criminal justice system my friend. Because the guy who does that deserves to be convicted.
Imagining a past where women didn't feel they could speak out about these things and recasting it as better days when women wouldn't have felt that a little unconscious groping was a bad thing is, I hate to say, just wrong mate.
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostBetter Call Saul"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
I think you're somewhere between 98 and 100% wrong about this Lazare, and that's unfortunate.
Women have suffered from constant, unrelenting, unwelcome male attention in silence for so long that even mentioning the actual timespan seems hyperbolic. Now, to be clear, I am not saying that every woman hates every uninvited sexualised encounter or that every woman experiences this sort of constant unwelcome attention in the same way. Not one bit. But the fact is that women get groped, leered at, shouted at, abused and sexualised constantly and in insidious ways that we don't always even realise or that we tend to minimise as if "ah, it's nothing".
20 years ago (2002 remember) if a woman woke up in bed with a man she had slept with, voluntarily, to discover that he had decided to start groping her while she was unconscious for his own sexual pleasure I suspect she would reasonably be expected to have a reaction anywhere from "hell yeah, let's go" to "get the fuck off me you disgusting pervert".
The fact is that once you decide that consent is not necessary or that previous consent is the same as permanent consent then, as a man or a woman but particularly as a man, you are accepting a very high degree of risk. You should not be doing it, full stop. But if you do and the person you've decided to grope while unconscious doesn't decide they're ok with it then welcome to the criminal justice system my friend. Because the guy who does that deserves to be convicted.
Imagining a past where women didn't feel they could speak out about these things and recasting it as better days when women wouldn't have felt that a little unconscious groping was a bad thing is, I hate to say, just wrong mate.
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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
I think you're somewhere between 98 and 100% wrong about this Lazare, and that's unfortunate.
Women have suffered from constant, unrelenting, unwelcome male attention in silence for so long that even mentioning the actual timespan seems hyperbolic. Now, to be clear, I am not saying that every woman hates every uninvited sexualised encounter or that every woman experiences this sort of constant unwelcome attention in the same way. Not one bit. But the fact is that women get groped, leered at, shouted at, abused and sexualised constantly and in insidious ways that we don't always even realise or that we tend to minimise as if "ah, it's nothing".
20 years ago (2002 remember) if a woman woke up in bed with a man she had slept with, voluntarily, to discover that he had decided to start groping her while she was unconscious for his own sexual pleasure I suspect she would reasonably be expected to have a reaction anywhere from "hell yeah, let's go" to "get the fuck off me you disgusting pervert".
The fact is that once you decide that consent is not necessary or that previous consent is the same as permanent consent then, as a man or a woman but particularly as a man, you are accepting a very high degree of risk. You should not be doing it, full stop. But if you do and the person you've decided to grope while unconscious doesn't decide they're ok with it then welcome to the criminal justice system my friend. Because the guy who does that deserves to be convicted.
Imagining a past where women didn't feel they could speak out about these things and recasting it as better days when women wouldn't have felt that a little unconscious groping was a bad thing is, I hate to say, just wrong mate.
I guess I'm imagining that there are possibly some cases, due to heigtened awareness where a victim will feel hurt and emotinal pain that they may not have felt before the era of that heigtened awareness.
It's not an argument for less awareness, victims finding voices is obviously a social good, it's really just an observation.
It could well be wrong but it is based on my own experience.
The Al Porter thing had me thinking about it when all that stuff came out. I remember reading many victim stories, all deeply emotionally hurt.
I had an experience of similar with a boss I worked for in the late nineties. A closeted gay married man who seemed to drop the veil with drinks on board. Two separate occasions of inappropriate groping.
I was certainly disgusted by it and creeped out, and learned to avoid him.
I just wonder though would it have affected me more emotionally had it happened during this time of heightened awareness. I don't know the answer to that.
I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by Solksjaer! View Post
Jaysus
Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
I think you're somewhere between 98 and 100% wrong about this Lazare, and that's unfortunate.
Women have suffered from constant, unrelenting, unwelcome male attention in silence for so long that even mentioning the actual timespan seems hyperbolic. Now, to be clear, I am not saying that every woman hates every uninvited sexualised encounter or that every woman experiences this sort of constant unwelcome attention in the same way. Not one bit. But the fact is that women get groped, leered at, shouted at, abused and sexualised constantly and in insidious ways that we don't always even realise or that we tend to minimise as if "ah, it's nothing".
20 years ago (2002 remember) if a woman woke up in bed with a man she had slept with, voluntarily, to discover that he had decided to start groping her while she was unconscious for his own sexual pleasure I suspect she would reasonably be expected to have a reaction anywhere from "hell yeah, let's go" to "get the fuck off me you disgusting pervert".
The fact is that once you decide that consent is not necessary or that previous consent is the same as permanent consent then, as a man or a woman but particularly as a man, you are accepting a very high degree of risk. You should not be doing it, full stop. But if you do and the person you've decided to grope while unconscious doesn't decide they're ok with it then welcome to the criminal justice system my friend. Because the guy who does that deserves to be convicted.
Imagining a past where women didn't feel they could speak out about these things and recasting it as better days when women wouldn't have felt that a little unconscious groping was a bad thing is, I hate to say, just wrong mate.
But I also think you’re misinterpreting Laz’s post. At the very least, we’ve interpreted it differently. I didn’t think he was suggesting it was ok, or would of been ok 20 years ago. Nor did I read it as equating not being able to speak up with not having an issue with being groped.
I took it as suggesting her actual feelings would have been different 20 years ago. We are bombarded constantly with this social justice message, that’s largely positive, but may also have a subliminal impact. If somebody is told constantly that X makes them a victim, that they should feel like whatever. Then that is affecting how they actually feel. Everyone should be allow to speak up. But also nobody should be made to feel like a victim.
I think that also largely true. But the flip side to that is that the “it’s harmless” prevailing attitude of the time, would have have to opposing negative effect.
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Saving it until it's all up on Netflix. I feel though that there is definitely a market for a 1 hour long 'here's a reminder of who everyone is and what has happened up to this point, and how it overlaps with BB' explainer as I am bound to have forgotten at least 80% of the plot and characters.
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Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
How has the concept of Mens Rea changed in that time do you think? Do you think it was more generally accepted (by a predominantly male judiciary) that someone meant no harm? I think it’s still a defence in serious cases that you reasonably believed you had consent, has that developed at all? I think cases like this really make for interesting legal positions.
On Mellor’s point I accept Laz may have been coming at it in a different way than I took it up. I’ll come back to that later when I have some time.
You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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We're going on a family holiday to England & Wales in July, over to Holyhead on July 13 and back via Pembroke-Rosslare on July 23. Gonna spend the first three nights based in Chester, and the maybe last three nights in or around Tenby in Wales, but the four nights in the middle we're still wondering where to go and what to do. Am thinking Warwick might be half-decent for a night or two, see the castle, etc...? For reference, we're a family of two adults, a 4-year-old dinosaur-mad son and an 18-month-old daughter.
Have a few things on the to-do list, such as checking out Conwy Castle on Day 1, going to Chester Zoo, going to a place called BeWILDerwood near Chester, the National Show Caves in Wales and a place called Folly Farm near Tenby, all family-friendly stuff. Does anyone have any recommendations for nice things to do and places to stay (will do Airbnbs as taking a full house is just easier for us than hotels and restaurants) in the English midlands or South Wales?
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Originally posted by ionapaul View PostWe're going on a family holiday to England & Wales in July, over to Holyhead on July 13 and back via Pembroke-Rosslare on July 23. Gonna spend the first three nights based in Chester, and the maybe last three nights in or around Tenby in Wales, but the four nights in the middle we're still wondering where to go and what to do. Am thinking Warwick might be half-decent for a night or two, see the castle, etc...? For reference, we're a family of two adults, a 4-year-old dinosaur-mad son and an 18-month-old daughter.
Have a few things on the to-do list, such as checking out Conwy Castle on Day 1, going to Chester Zoo, going to a place called BeWILDerwood near Chester, the National Show Caves in Wales and a place called Folly Farm near Tenby, all family-friendly stuff. Does anyone have any recommendations for nice things to do and places to stay (will do Airbnbs as taking a full house is just easier for us than hotels and restaurants) in the English midlands or South Wales?
Will also have to wrestle with the fact that it will be full of tansLast edited by Keane; 25-05-22, 11:18.
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Originally posted by Mellor View Post
Groping somebody who is asleep is definitely a crime.
You’re completely correct in what you’ve said. It’s not ok, it was never ok, and nobody (make or female) should have to accept any degree of groping. Anyone doing so is basically rolling the dice with the other persons reaction.
But I also think you’re misinterpreting Laz’s post. At the very least, we’ve interpreted it differently. I didn’t think he was suggesting it was ok, or would of been ok 20 years ago. Nor did I read it as equating not being able to speak up with not having an issue with being groped.
I took it as suggesting her actual feelings would have been different 20 years ago. We are bombarded constantly with this social justice message, that’s largely positive, but may also have a subliminal impact. If somebody is told constantly that X makes them a victim, that they should feel like whatever. Then that is affecting how they actually feel. Everyone should be allow to speak up. But also nobody should be made to feel like a victim.
I think that also largely true. But the flip side to that is that the “it’s harmless” prevailing attitude of the time, would have have to opposing negative effect.
Social networks have allowed people to communicate more freely, helping to create surprisingly influential social organizations among once-marginalized groups. These groups in the past likely would have been ignored because of the perceived dominance of the existing status quo, but social media has allowed for formerly overlooked concerns to gain traction.
Social media has minimized the collective action problem that was previously in place by promoting the spread of unconventional knowledge among individuals. By shifting the Overton Window, social media has given a voice to and fostered a community among groups that failed to be heard in the past. Social media outlets have empowered people to express themselves, find others who share their views, and band together to break into the mainstream.
However social media has it's problems. By design, intended or otherwise, it promotes polarization and eschews nuance. Extreme beliefs become the norm and can lead to extreme behaviours. To quote Mellor "If somebody is told constantly that X makes them a victim, that they should feel like whatever. Then that is affecting how they actually feel.".
While we appear to be getting to grips with quantum mechanics as a species, we still behave like children when it comes to decision making on the complexities and chemistry of carnal interactions. The law can be a blunt instrument in adjudicating on alleged malfeasance in this area. This will lead to hard cases like this. One poster said they were left uncomfortable after reading about the case. Possibly because of the "there but for the grace of God go I" aspect of it.Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally posted by Kayroo View PostOn Mellor’s point I accept Laz may have been coming at it in a different way than I took it up. I’ll come back to that later when I have some time.
In general the whole thing is a minefield. As whether somebody is bothered by it has no real bearing on whether or not its is illegal. On on whether it becomes an issue.
but where to you draw the line with non-consent?
(not suggesting the line is anywhere near a sleeping person)
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Originally posted by Keane View Post
I always think English countryside looks really beautiful and had been thinking of doing something similar to this at some stage. I'd be interested in hearing how you get on and also interested in the replies to this. Presume you're taking the car? Any ballpark on what the damage is going to be for a week's trip? If it's as expensive as Ireland might have to reconsider
Will also have to wrestle with the fact that it will be full of tans
So the ferry there and back is approximately €600, which seems reasonable. Accommodation in the places we've looked in England (Chester, Warwick, Cirencester and in the Cotswolds) can be had for €150-€200/night and that would be nice big cottages/houses furnished very well and with all mod cons, way nicer than staying in a hotel from my perspective. Tenby is a different story, not sure we'll get anything there for less than €250/night, must be a very popular place. God only knows how much the entire trip will put us back, let's say €4K or so?
Other than Centre Parcs we haven't done any family stuff in a while, so can't say if that's better or worse than Ireland!!!
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High on my list of half planned trips is to get a bit of time touring around that whole area of the Welsh borders, Shropshire, Malvern hills, Shrewsbury, Ironbridge Hay on Wye etc.
Anywhere in the UK you need to have your trip well planned or you find yourself sitting in identikit town centres with everything closed down at 6PM except shitty pub food and chippers.Last edited by Strewelpeter; 25-05-22, 17:42.Turning millions into thousands
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Originally posted by shrapnel View Post
stand every dayGone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.
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update 2:
after speaking to the specialist's secretary yesterday, i called her again this morning, and just asking for an update, saying in the nicest possible way how stressed i was about the whole situation. She told me her boss was coming in today and she'd call me as soon as she'd spoken to him.
an hour later i received a confirmation email from the hospital saying i had an appointment on friday. she called me 30 minutes later, saying she'd got a cancellation and was so happy about it as that meant i had a spot straight away .
i'm so grateful to that woman, i will send her a massive bouquet of flowers at some point. empathy is amazing when it comes from people who deal with grimness all the time and are still capable of lifting your spirits on a phone call. i'm actually really emotional writing this as the relief is beyond belief, even though i know it will take months to get sorted, but that first step is so important to me (it took 4 months last time).
hadn't realised how broken i was till i got that phone call. so grateful. onwards and upwards
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostSpringsteen in the RDS early May, c.25% chance of it being cold and wet.
if you've a choice do you book pitch or stand?
Last time I saw him there it was seated, think it was the open stand facing the sea ? Is there a big covered concrete one on the other side ?
Ill look for GA, as long as there isnt a group of people next to me more interested in chatting for the whole concert than shutting the fuck up like croaker 5 years ago.This too shall pass.
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Originally posted by ComradeCollie View Post
I'm still somewhat confused about your leg situation. Are you not in a hospital bed? From your last post it sounds like you are not, as I had assumed you would be talking to doctors face to face, and not to their office staff on the phone.
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostSpringsteen in the RDS early May, c.25% chance of it being cold and wet.
if you've a choice do you book pitch or stand?Last edited by Denny Crane; 25-05-22, 19:00.
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Originally posted by shrapnel View Post
No, i just walk around on crutches with a broken leg. It's a fake broken leg though, the metal rod is broken, and it doesn't hurt if i don't stand on it and i can't stand on it or the leg buckles and then it hurts like a mofo. There is only one doctor(and team) in the uk who specialises in this field, so he's the only one who can fix it. Getting an appointment so quickly is awesome, now I'll get loads of scans, then the pieces necessary will be rebuilt, then an operation then rehab. It's a gruesomly long process unfortunately.Gone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.
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I've shifted to sitting for the vast majority of gigs I've gone to over the last 5 years where the option is available. Was a committed stander at gigs for the guts of two decades but unless the act is someone I'm likely to want to bounce around to now, find sitting miles better. Defo a pain of you can't get decent seats but generally manage to do so
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