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Originally posted by dinekes View Post
Its and odd detour all right.
Think of all the forced hours spent in Mass and school classes!
At least 10 years going on Sunday (at gunpoint practically)
Could have been learning a language or a new sport or perchance a new musical instrument (while a new language might have been at gunpoint too it would have at least some utility now
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Originally posted by hotspur View Post
The point of spirituality is that we are more than just utility seeking creatures.
Obviously religion is total nonsense. However I’ve seen spirituality used in all sorts of ways, and I assume you are not using it to refer to a belief in the supernatural?You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View PostIf I ran a debate king competition would people be interested? I have some ideas on how to make it as fair as possible, and not overly time consuming.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
What do you mean when you say spirituality? I’d be interested in hearing that.
Obviously religion is total nonsense. However I’ve seen spirituality used in all sorts of ways, and I assume you are not using it to refer to a belief in the supernatural?
A survey of reviews by McCarroll each dealing with the topic of spirituality gave twenty-seven explicit definitions, among which "there was little agreement."[1] This impedes the systematic study of spirituality and the capacity to communicate findings meaningfully. Furthermore, many of spirituality's core features are not unique to spirituality; for example self-transcendence, asceticism and the recognition of one's connection to all were regarded by the atheist Arthur Schopenhauer as key to ethical life.
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Originally posted by hotspur View Post
The point of spirituality is that we are more than just utility seeking creatures.
Closest I get to spirituality or a sense of that we are more than just ourselves would be from running in the mountains, nature that sort of thing.
And maybe, just maybe from from being I of 3 teenagers busting out "Sweet Home Alabama" with all the proper gear and amazing ourselves that we actually sounded good!
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View PostIf I ran a debate king competition would people be interested? I have some ideas on how to make it as fair as possible, and not overly time consuming.
Maybe when I have read/understood and able to implement the ideas in KR's recommended books I might take part (with a huge handicap)
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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
What do you mean when you say spirituality? I’d be interested in hearing that.
Obviously religion is total nonsense. However I’ve seen spirituality used in all sorts of ways, and I assume you are not using it to refer to a belief in the supernatural?
I really do urge you not to go around saying "Obviously religion is total nonsense." It has no beneficial effect on others, and likely has an unpleasant effect on many. This may not be your path in life (or hasn't been yet), but it is something of the utmost value to many people for whom it is not obviously nonsense. You may not "get it", but why do you feel so contemptuous abut it?
Anyway, congrats on your upcoming arrival.
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Originally posted by hotspur View Post
It's a fuzzy concept and not one I have a clear definition of. But in the sense I was using it there I was not referring to anything supernatural, but putting it in opposition to a world view where what is of value is merely mundane utility. A view that the good life involves the sum total of appropriating of what is useful, hedonistic pleasure, and getting a bigger slice of the cake.
I really do urge you not to go around saying "Obviously religion is total nonsense." It has no beneficial effect on others, and likely has an unpleasant effect on many. This may not be your path in life (or hasn't been yet), but it is something of the utmost value to many people for whom it is not obviously nonsense. You may not "get it", but why do you feel so contemptuous abut it?
Anyway, congrats on your upcoming arrival.
In fact the utility of learning a language I would view as a gateway to new experiences and indeed the confidence gained from learning that language and being able to converse with a new population while absorbing their culture and ideas could be deemed a spiritual experience.
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AFAIK he is not saying that utility in and of itself is mundane, but placing spirituality as a dualism to things that are of just basic usefulness to the self, so your example would not be a of mundane utility. Trying to get the most money you can possibly get for mere pleasure for yourself would be.
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostI really do urge you not to go around saying "Obviously religion is total nonsense." It has no beneficial effect on others, and likely has an unpleasant effect on many. This may not be your path in life (or hasn't been yet), but it is something of the utmost value to many people for whom it is not obviously nonsense. You may not "get it", but why do you feel so contemptuous abut it?
I don’t hold stories of the tooth-fairy in contempt because they don’t inform education policy, ownership of most hospitals or seek to influence public policy. Religion is just a complete joke that is only given any form of respect because a lot of people decide to subscribe to it. But viewed objectively it’s just a silly comfort blanket. Now, by all means you keep your comfort blanket and enjoy it. I won’t seek to remove it from you or anyone else. But when you try and make me use it or live my life in any way influenced by it, well then we will have a problem.
People finding it valuable doesn’t make religion or religious beliefs true or good. It’s all just fairy stories. Why would I not be contemptuous of an organized form of fairy worship?You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by dinekes View Post
I know I'd spend far too much time on it and need to focus more on work at the minute. I'd get all anxious about it.
Maybe when I have read/understood and able to implement the ideas in KR's recommended books I might take part (with a huge handicap)
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Originally posted by Tar.Aldarion View PostAFAIK he is not saying that utility in and of itself is mundane, but placing spirituality as a dualism to things that are of just basic usefulness to the self, so your example would not be a of mundane utility. Trying to get the most money you can possibly get for mere pleasure for yourself would be.
However he did respond originally to my post where my examples of learning things with utility were non-material related (learning a language,a new instrument or sport) versus going to Mass which I view personally as a waste of my time and energy.
I would agree that theres a spectrum in the pursuit of material things where it can become an empty experience.
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The problem with religion along with things like pseudo-scientific beliefs is not that they are not beneficial for some people, I can see how important and beneficial they are in a lot of peoples lives. The issue I have, and it is the same for all of the woo I see is that it is an attack on critical thinking of the beholder and society around them. So while somebody might feel better after a reiki session, the core ideas that have brought people to the point that they believe in the moon charging their crystals, has led to people pretending to use hand sanitizer in shops, burning down 5G masts and not letting their children get life saving treatment in favour of dock leaves. It has only begun and it will get worse and I think the negative consequences of a lack of critical thinking will far outweigh any positives to individuals.
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
I'd keep it relatively short so it wasn't overly time-consuming. Something like, each match is just an opening statement and reply to your opponents' statement. Each a day apart with a reasonable word limit. Perhaps a small price for the winner. Any other takers?
I'm getting in to my busiest time now. It's a lot of work crammed into a short space of time so cant afford distractions or procrastination.
Would give it a go after that despite or maybe because of my semi crippling anxiety!
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post(also a hearty lol at proselytising atheists)You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
No such thing as a proselytising atheist. I’m not trying to convince anyone. Like I said, keep your comfort blanket.
May the God of your choice bless and keep you. I respect Him as long as He does not try to circumcise me again."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Solksjaer! View PostForest Gump does have a great soundtrack. Sez he 26 years later .
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Originally posted by Kayroo View PostWhy would I not be contemptuous of an organized form of fairy worship?
Empathy, understanding and compassion might serve you better than contempt.Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt
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Irrespective of the IPBs well read collective IQ on the great questions in life . Ye know feck all in the greater scheme of things . This is fact. I'm anti religion myself but on the bigger question of spirituality we all have our own personal journey. and experiences that can exist is whatever realm we sense. I myself am happy in cuckoo land
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Originally posted by Wombatman View Post
Because looking for comfort in the metaphysical is such a human thing to do. It is a feature of every culture because man needs to create God to sooth his fears of the great unknown. We tribalise it in an effort to validate it. Not a million miles away from being a rabid Dublin GAA fan really .
Empathy, understanding and compassion might serve you better than contempt.
I also believe taking comfort in delusion lessens the human experience. Why surrender your mortality to divine certainty when you can live it to the full knowing that this is the fleeting spark of humanity that we get to enjoy so we had best do all we can to enjoy it? Why concede the wonders of the universe to a feckless divine tyrant when we can plumb the mysteries of creation itself from the very beginning of time?
Religion was the first idea we had to comfort us from the uncertainty of death. But we don’t need it anymore. It’s a failed idea. My contempt is for those who hang on to it as a means of wielding temporal power and influence. I have no time to be dictated to by people who take their lead from Iron Age zealots.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostI've invested, like all cool kids, in the nations favourite breadmaker. A stunning 4.8/5 rating from over 1500 reviews on Amazon. Can't seem to find anything other than the most basic flour in the local Tescos, Odlums plain white. Where would one source the good stuff? Strong flour, I think its called. Is it maybe that you need to go to a specialist place or just a bigger supermarket? Just a nice big flour shop: a flour emporium? Flour me up, people.
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Originally posted by dinekes View PostIs Twitter that bad. I hear terms such as "Twitter outrage" "Mob rule" etc bandied about which would seem to indicate that some people attribute a negative connotation at having an opinion on that forum. Dont have an account myself but feel it's worth noting that one can share an opinion with someone else or a number of people but for different reasons. Yet when someone opposes that opinion they can just lump you in with the the morally outraged baying mob.
Seems like a lazy way to discredit a considered stance on something.
Also the emotive language used in arguments is interesting
"criminally incompetent" "baying for blood" "penis rubbing"
Obviously intended to be more persuasive.
Might do an exercise sometime and edit a few posts taking out all the emotive language to see the impact.
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Hell is actually 3 kids at home while you're trying to work.
Therefore I am now in heaven, at least until mid-afternoon. Still have no childcare as our minder sacked herself but trying to persuade Mrs D3 that we don't actually need one."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View PostMy point is that this is a messy process - there is not a clear dividing line that where a word goes from being acceptable to not; or who decides. And words remain, hanging around. Part of the process now is outrage. It clearly isn't an ideal process, but given there is literally no effective alternative that's what we are stuck with.
And as I suggested above, just because some people decide the word is cancelled doesn't necessarily make that right. That applies now more than ever.
When politics are involved it pretty hard to tell if the outrage is genuine.
A perfect example is Trump. Last year he refer to his impeachment inquiry as a “lynching.” Joe Biden called comment "abhorrent and despicable". Trump quickly faced a backlash from Democrats in the House of Representatives.
Danny Davis, representative for Illinois since 1997, who is black and was born in the South in 1941, said:
“The highest officeholder should think about these words. The rural south where I was born has a tarnished and painful history,”
Fellow democratic representative, Gregory Meeks (also black), said:
“I don’t expect Trump to be sensitive to the weight of that word, or see how insulting and hurtful it is to invoke it here,”
On that alone, I'd respect their view is shaped by their own history, which was a hell of a lot closer the horrors than mine. And if that's what the word means to them, then who should say otherwise.
Of course, that assume the Trump outrage is genuine,and not just another episode of Left v Right.
During proceedings for impeachment of Clinton in 1998, many Democrats argue against it on the House floor.
Danny Davis, also then the Representative for Illinois, said:
"I will not vote for this nightmare before Christmas. I will not vote for this lynching in the people's House."
Gregory Meeks, again same guy, said
"What we are doing here is not a prosecution, it is a persecution and indeed it is a political lynching."
Joe Biden was at that time a Senator, referred to it as a "partisan lynching".
If we decide that it's best left in the past, I'm fine with that. But I'll need more than faux outrage to convince me.
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostSurely 50cent in da club didn't help your case?! Yeah I'd say a wee bit of noise in the afternoon would be quite nice. Plus it sends a signal to however you are on a call with in the afternoon that work will end and it start wrapping things up.
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Stopping work at 5 or 5.30 is definitely an issue with wfh.
Much easier when in the office to definitively stop at a certain time, then by the time you've commuted and eaten you aren't going to log in to see emails or issues.
But when you are at your home desk it's much more difficult to call a halt when you still have stuff to deal with and emails piled up.
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Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View PostStopping work at 5 or 5.30 is definitely an issue with wfh.
Much easier when in the office to definitively stop at a certain time, then by the time you've commuted and eaten you aren't going to log in to see emails or issues.
But when you are at your home desk it's much more difficult to call a halt when you still have stuff to deal with and emails piled up.
Now that things have returned to semi-normal, I do have to force myself to log off by 6. Working primarily with Americans in a deadline-driven business is a pain for that reason. The old South African job was much better in that they were only ever a max of 2 hours ahead. That said, I think I see some Australian hours in my future as well."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostGreat year to be an 18 year old inner city mad lad. The media powers have determined that grades shouldn't be corrected to proper distributions. So boys, who are historically overexpected to perform well and end up underperforming will keep their overexpected grades. While poor area schools where normally people do awful will keep higher grades.
It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, except that giving false grades will be celebrated as a victory for those recipients, while really what those people need is more spending on inner city schools to improve real educational achievement and implementing a plan to address the massive underperformance of boys in schools, especially poor boys.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Overall i haven't minded the WFH experience but longing for the office in my circumstances.
The 8 weeks of hard lockdown we kept our 2 year old on site. Both of us are busy. Work was flexible and we got out a few times a day which was grand but he spent way too much time in front of the TV which i felt bad about.
Since he's gone back to be minded by the Grannies it's been fine but she's about to pop and is now on Maternity. Newborn with 2 year old running around and her on 10 months Maternity is going to be unbridled agony.
Office not back till March at least.
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Tesco sell a 00 flour but the typeface they use makes it hard to see
Wife ordered stuff a few weeks ago from kateskitchen.ie, breadflour and Nduja sausage, never tasted it before but i would brush my teeth with it if i could !
This too shall pass.
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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
I’m not sure there’s a single book I would recommend. It’s mostly about learning to avoid and identify logical flaws and fallacies. So any decent book on formal logic would be a good start. AC Grayling has a wonderful book on the history of philosophy which I think was imaginatively called “The History of Philosophy”. Daniel Kahnemann’s book “Thinking Fast and Slow” isn’t 100% what you’re looking for but it’s excellent and deals with logical and cognitive failings and flaws.
Maybe something like “The Fundamentals of Critical Argumentation” by Douglas Walton or something like that? It’s supposedly quite a good primer on what I think you’re after but I’ve honestly not read it myself.
Don't think any of these are specifically related to presenting an argument. But I find they serve as good material on understanding how to think which is related to critically analysing an argument. Totally agree with Kayroo's point about learning to identify and avoid logical fallacies.
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Originally posted by Silver-Tiger View PostOverall i haven't minded the WFH experience but longing for the office in my circumstances.
The 8 weeks of hard lockdown we kept our 2 year old on site. Both of us are busy. Work was flexible and we got out a few times a day which was grand but he spent way too much time in front of the TV which i felt bad about.
Since he's gone back to be minded by the Grannies it's been fine but she's about to pop and is now on Maternity. Newborn with 2 year old running around and her on 10 months Maternity is going to be unbridled agony.
Office not back till March at least."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
oh nduja is most excellent! Bit of a killer chilli kick to it though, or is that just some versions?
Except I don't do one pan. Pasta seperate and add to the sauce at the end the way it should be done
I get nduja in a italian deli beside me. Also toonsbridge on georges st will have itairport, lol
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Originally posted by dinekes View PostHas anyone read any of Jordan Petersons books and would they care tIo give a quick review.
It was only really as I finished it and tried to explain it to the missus, the hypocrisy of his writing became difficult to ignore.
His instruction of being precise falls apart under his own stream of consciousness writing style. He decries strawmanning but has a core bunch of targets he blames for the ills of the world.
I honestly don't think you'll learn anything not immediately apparent to anyone with even a cursory understanding of mindfulness (which is kinda short hand of "dont be a prick")
and it will remind you at times of every occasion you are stuck talking to the over earnest fella in the smoking area of the pub who keeps grabbing your arm as you try to politely leave .
My willingness to devote more time to him evaporated as he continued to use patreon to shape his output tailoring his missives to those who gave him the most money.
People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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kinda annoyed I missed yesterdays conversations.
It's always a good day when engaging in conversation not rooted in cbeebies or whether the lockdown is still on.People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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