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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
Hectorjelly deals with it pretty well but let me just head you off at the pass here and tell you: You are wrong.
Three strikes does not work. It leads to absurdities beyond description and attributing a drop in violent crime to it is a classic correlation/causation error.
Why wouldn’t you support a three strikes rules for robbery or even burglaries? Say 5 extra years for a third offence?
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Well, let's at least accept that (yes, like Trump) it is democratically mandated by the electorate?You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Goodluck2me View PostWhy wouldn’t you support a three strikes rules for robbery or even burglaries? Say 5 extra years for a third offence?
California are moving away from their 3-strikes rule in piecemeal fashion precisely because it doesn't work. Take this example of the first man in California prosecuted under the three-strikes rule:
Originally posted by Rolling Stone MagazineOnce California’s Three Strikes law went into effect at midnight on March 8th, 1994, it would take just nine hours for it to claim its first hapless victim, a homeless schizophrenic named Lester Wallace with two nonviolent burglaries on his sheet, who attempted to steal a car radio near the University of Southern California campus.
Wallace was such an incompetent thief that he was still sitting in the passenger seat of the car by the time police arrived. He went to court and got 25 years to life.
Link here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...es-laws-92042/
You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Passed by a huge majority too. 72% of the votes. In the deepest deep blue state.
Here's one. The law was passed 2 years after the the Rodney King riots.
It was passed 5 months after OJ Simpson killed Nicole Brown.
It was passed 5 months after Ray Houghton scored against Italy in Giants' Stadium.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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I'd love to know more about how the length of a sentence is decided upon, both here and in the USA which seems to be the main topic at the minute.
From my very limited knowledge (which may be completely wrong) is that here in Ireland, there is a time span of sentence given for most offences, say for example, robbery is 1-5 years but it is only a guideline for judges and that ultimately, they take lot of factors into consideration - Is that right?
If it is, fair enough, but I think lay people often get confused then how somebody who is a serial offender or commits a fairly heinous crime can get a relatively light sentence. Obviously, the lay person doesn't have all the mitigating facts but it can come across as overly lenient and I think that can help lead the charge of "lock 'em up for good if they do anything bad more than twice" brigade.
In the case quoted by HJ, the person was on his 4th strike but the 4th strike was a very minor offence (as were two of the other four) and he surely doesn't deserve to spend 20+ years in prison with the prospect of another 20 years to come for such a minor offence, regardless of whether's it his 4th conviction or not.
I also think that there needs to be more done with serial offenders and why they do so. If being sent to prison several times, isn't a deterrent, than what will work? Again, from my limited knowledge on it, prison doesn't really work. There has to be rehabilitation and a deeper look into how we deal with people convicted of a crime - pre, during and post sentence.
Also, a massive LOL to anybody who thinks that black people in America aren't full on profiled, targeted and treated very differently in pretty much every respect of the law and sentencing compared to white people.
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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
So what? Are you making a point or would you like to trade random facts from early 90's California?
Here's one. The law was passed 2 years after the the Rodney King riots.
It was passed 5 months after OJ Simpson killed Nicole Brown.
It was passed 5 months after Ray Houghton scored against Italy in Giants' Stadium."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
So your solution to persistent evidence that a criminal system is a shit way of dealing with social, mental, and addiction issues, is to make things even more criminal. Move over Baldrick, there's a new boss in town.
Or if it is, we have really jumped into la-la land.
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
The point is that it is a very popular piece of legislation that got massive bipartisan support.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Protecting law-abiding citizens from recidivist criminals is hardly a contentious notion.
Or if it is, we have really jumped into la-la land.
Basically, making sentences longer is like wondering why drilling a hole in your head doesn't cure a headache and arriving at the conclusion that you didn't drill deep enough.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
72% of voters disagree. You're whistling in the wind here.
You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
So what if 72% of people in 1994 thought this was a good idea. The popularity of an idea doesn't determine its merit. Ideas like this can be objectively assessed on their own.
So these laws are never coming off the books. That's the reality."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostThat's an American truism not a European truism I'd imagine. Except for renowned shitehole engerland"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
Well you've already won sickpuppies vote, so that's the reasonable middle ground already tied up! Could maybe push the idea that it's actually blacks who are the real racists to corner a special part of the voting market.
Raoul Rule #2: Moral oneupmanship becomes a crime punishable by a kick in the hole (from Conor McGregor)"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
That's pretty awful analysis, although I remember you made a similar case before. When crime drops you can't just attribute a single reason to it.
The Effect of Three-Strikes Legislation on Serious Crime in California study analyzed the effect of the Three-Strikes legislation as a means of deterrence and incapacitation. The study found that the Three-Strikes Law did not have a very significant effect on deterrence of crime, but also that this[38] ineffectiveness may be due to the diminishing marginal returns associated with having pre-existing repeat offender laws in place.[39]
A 2015 study found that three-strikes laws were associated with a 33% increase in the risk of fatal assaults on law enforcement officers.[44]
Anyway, this whole discussion is about twenty years behind modern thinking. Prisons don't work in any effective sense, they never have and they never will. This is a good primer on the future and prisons and punishment:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/17/m...n-gilmore.html
Ofer even seemed to quote Gilmore’s mantra that “prisons are catchall solutions to social problems.” When I asked him, Ofer said, “There’s no question. She’s made tremendous contributions, even just in helping to bring about a conversation on what this work really is, and the constant struggle not to replace one oppressive system with another.”
In the context of the Kriegal case last year I think I made a post on this very topic. A scandi kid did the same thing at ~11yo and 12 was the age of responsibility so he wasn’t brought before the law. He was never in trouble again in his life, and I offered that as a good outcome vs. being punished for a heinous crime with 20yrs in prison but reoffending afterwards. Opinions were split on it.Last edited by Goodluck2me; 10-08-20, 15:10.
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Anyway, seeing as prisons will be around forever (sorry lads), here's something more interesting; Slate have put together the entire timeline of the Trump covid response.
It's actually worse than I remember."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Well another truism in politics is that 'you can never be too tough on crime' (and the obverse being you really don't want to be labelled as 'soft on crime').
So these laws are never coming off the books. That's the reality.
I can demonstrate, absolutely, that tough sentencing laws have "come off the books" plenty of times. So your point has absolutely no merit whatsoever. If you're even making a point. Is this another one of those times where you just post something that seems like you're making a profound point but actually you're just saying a fact and hoping people take it up as profound. You don't actually nail your colours to a position so that way you can't be properly challenged on it, is that it?You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
Thanks for that, I had a read of the NYT article, it failed to give any alternative to the current system only that it wanted to defund and remove prisons.
I couldn’t see a convincing argument for getting rid of them.
For non-violent offences there is surely a better way to punish and rehabilitate than through incarceration. I think that's the central point.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
It doesn't work. It's never worked. Harsher punishments don't deter crime, they increase the incentive to do whatever it takes to avoid being caught. Hence the increased cop killings in California.
California are moving away from their 3-strikes rule in piecemeal fashion precisely because it doesn't work. Take this example of the first man in California prosecuted under the three-strikes rule:
Wallace is still in prison.
Link here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...es-laws-92042/
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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
We will always need something akin to a prison. We might change what it looks like and change how we use it, but some people will need to be removed from society for periods of time and that's just a fact. We may use that time to give them rehabilitation and education. Often mental health care is what is needed. We may stop calling them prisons. The Central Mental Hospital's involuntary admittances are "prisoners" by any common definition but we neither treat them as such or label them that way. Some return to society, some don't. But they are treated and helped as best we can manage. That's what prison really is supposed to be about.
For non-violent offences there is surely a better way to punish and rehabilitate than through incarceration. I think that's the central point.
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Passed by a huge majority too. 72% of the votes. In the deepest deep blue state.
Clinton had won it 1992, after it being a red state for 6 successive presidential elections and 9 of the previous 10. Fuckers didn't even back JFK. It's not exactly Hawaii.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._in_California
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Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View Post
Bit of a classic RD3 exaggeration of California's blueness at the time.
Clinton had won it 1992, after it being a red state for 6 successive presidential elections and 9 of the previous 10. Fuckers didn't even back JFK. It's not exactly Hawaii.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._in_California
Might be another one on the ballot this time too, Kamala Harris."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
I wouldn’t disagree at all on this, like wouldn't we all be better off with people doing community service (cleaning parks and beaches, removing graffiti) rather than doing a week in jail for non-payment of a TV licence etc."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
Thanks. I wonder does it reduce crime, (taking the question of fairness away for now) or can it be known. The simple idea is if tiny lock people up longer they can’t offend in prison. It’s always galling when you see “a man committed XYZ crime whilst out on bail for ABC offense etc.”
Fairly dramatic decrease in property crimes post-1992 and a far less substantial one in violent crime.
6a00d83455b3db69e2019b0216c800970d-800wi.jpg"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Here's the statistics for California.
Fairly dramatic decrease in property crimes post-1992 and a far less substantial one in violent crime.
6a00d83455b3db69e2019b0216c800970d-800wi.jpg
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There was a better video posted (I think on here before) but I can't find it but the below, compares US v's the country we all know as having some of the best policies going, Sweden
Surely, the Swedish model is much better?
The United States is responsible for a quarter of all the prisoners in the world. How different are prisons in other countries? In today's video we look at t...
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Taking advantage of our week's house swap to explore Mayo on two wheels a bit. Just cycled to Foxford: town is a bit of a dump but the riverside is lovely. Apparently teeming with salnon this year. Also the birthplace of Admiral Brown I see, whose statue I say hello to every day in Dublin.
Will try out the greenway tomorrow for a spin.
#Raoul's rothar"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostAnyway, seeing as prisons will be around forever (sorry lads), here's something more interesting; Slate have put together the entire timeline of the Trump covid response.
It's actually worse than I remember.
the inauguration crowd
The muslim ban
killing Obamacare
spicer
Papadopoulos
withdrawing from TPP
Sally Yates
That's the first week or so....People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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Originally posted by Iago View PostYou should watch 13th on Netflix if you haven’t already
] it is titled after the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, adopted in 1865, which abolished slavery throughout the United States and ended involuntary servitude except as a punishment for conviction of a crime.
Why not just pay a subsistence wage and let the worker pay for their own shit. No outlay, no loss and no need to pay if sick.
Of course he was talking through his hoop because US slavery emerged because of the labor shortages brought on by the cotton boom. Probably could have attracted workers over with tales of a better life without the brutality. Who knows?Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
well, they were hardly not going to vote for Californians 4 times (Nixon\Nixon\Reagan\Reagan)....
Might be another one on the ballot this time too, Kamala Harris.
Beto got a bit of a raw deal being ruled out on gender.
Tammy Duckworth would be my VP pick but given Biden's age, they need someone who could slide behind the desk.
She's a little lacking in big game experience.
Warren might be the best of the bunch but sadly won't get the nod. I'd nearly bet money Trump wouldn't be able to help himself calling her a Joe's squaw or something if she was on the ticketPeople say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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Originally posted by DeadParrot View Post
the series of books detailing the almost daily gaffes and acts of heinous villainy from this presidency will be huge.
the inauguration crowd
The muslim ban
killing Obamacare
spicer
Papadopoulos
withdrawing from TPP
Sally Yates
That's the first week or so....
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Originally posted by Keane View Post
Shameful overlooking of the MoochPeople say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
Think everyone has decided it's Harris or Susan Rice, no? Or has there been some movement in that. Best not to overthink these things, president don't die. Or at least the very strong odds are that Biden will fly through his eight years, or four years if he decides he has done enough and feels things fading. Reagan did his second term with full-on dementia.
Presidents do die. Kennedy, Roosevelt in living memory."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
I'd say if I set up the RaoulRulez Party and one of my main policy planks was 'Three fouls and you get a minimum five years in the clink' here, that would get me a big chunk of votes.
You could fit all their voters in a squad car.I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by Keane View PostHow have you chaps gotten on with that back garden pizza oven? I just realised that since I now live in Kerry with a back garden I can get one.
Also, any recommendations for a small barbecue that won't break the bank?
Turning millions into thousands
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Originally posted by Lazare View Post
Renua were tough on crime.
You could fit all their voters in a squad car.
The RaoulRulez party will be the voice of the oppressed (middle class voter).
The sword of justice. (as in lock up crookz)
The hammer of inequality (as in we will endeavour to increase it).
etc"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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I find him unbearable and reckon he's probably more than a bit of a prick, you can say what you like about him but he's easily the most powerful man in Ireland.
Joe Duffy gets BoI to take responsibility for smishing fraud
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/202...land-smishing/
Turning millions into thousands
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Guest
Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostTaking advantage of our week's house swap to explore Mayo on two wheels a bit. Just cycled to Foxford: town is a bit of a dump but the riverside is lovely. Apparently teeming with salnon this year. Also the birthplace of Admiral Brown I see, whose statue I say hello to every day in Dublin.
Will try out the greenway tomorrow for a spin.
#Raoul's rothar
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Originally posted by Sickpuppy View Post
There is a very old round tower in Turlough village my great grand parents grand parents aunt and uncles there say an auld prayer. Lovely part of the world used love going down for holidays went for pints with my uncle when was 17 to Ballyvary had 8 pints of Guinness each he was utterly disgusted when i had a ninth and didn’t get him one he was driving
Then we rolled down the grass banks at the Museum of Country Life. Beat actually going into it."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
Think everyone has decided it's Harris or Susan Rice, no? Or has there been some movement in that. Best not to overthink these things, president don't die. Or at least the very strong odds are that Biden will fly through his eight years, or four years if he decides he has done enough and feels things fading. Reagan did his second term with full-on dementia.
The guy is already older than dirt. That's why I think this VP pick is the most important in decades.
People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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