Bad Beat/Moaning/Venting - pray for Lazare

[Emmet]

At least know the fairly huge differences between rent controls and rent certainty

Gwan, give us a definition there of the two. Compare and contrast.

Then when you're finished doing that, read the second paper which discusses both. The naming convention might not be the same, but it's reminiscent of this imo.

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[Emmet]

wha? Your last link in the first post gave the definition of rent control: "Rent control, like all other government-mandated price controls, is a law placing a maximum price, or a “rent ceiling,” on what landlords may charge tenants. "

Rent certainty is about certainty over price increases over the life of a rental contract. Its nothing to do with putting a rent ceiling on what landlords can charge tenants.

Can we use that second paragraph as a definition of 'Rent Certainty'? (given that there is no definition in any annals of any economic journals, and is a difficult term to find outside of Irish Newspapers)

The second paper discusses exactly the idea of what you've written, I've even quoted from it above where it discusses the ramifications of inflexible price discovery.

once more

...Instead, tenancy rent control is just likely to change the timing of the overall rent cost within a tenancy (Nagy 1997). Since landlords know they cannot adjust rents each year to fully reflect market conditions, they are likely to set rents at the start of the tenancy according to their judgement as to what they expect rents over the lifetime of the tenancy to be. In fact, if they expect that the market rent will increase by more than the average used to determine the rent control, they will front-load the rent level to compensate for their future loss. New tenants are therefore likely to face higher rents initially than they would in a free market, in order to compensate for forecast lower future rents....

This isn't even debatable imo, even Theshold were aware of it when asking for rent regulation back in March

The paper discusses further (pages 23-26) the effect of 'tenancy rent controls' (their term for 'Rent Certainty') on affordability and security.

Furthermore, in Ireland we already have a process whereby unfair rent increases can be appealed if out of sync with the market. (Residential Tenanceies Act 2004 - Link 1, Link 2). If the rising rents aren't out of sync with the market, then they are the fair market price. That the fair market price is loads is shit, no doubt, but it is the fair market price.

The only ways to stop rents rising in a capital city (where demand is almost always increasing) are by

• increasing supply of houses
• extending city limits through infrastructure improvements (making commuting less hassle)

The market is demand and supply. The demand is causing the rents to rise. That's it.

I say all of this as a private tenant!

[Emmet]

And anyway you clearly don't know what Alan Kelly was talking about if you thought he was talking about rent controls when I just showed you he was talking about rent certainty.

Perhaps you might find me a definition of rent certainty that we can accept as a good base? Something from an economics textbook / journal? Perhaps even a wikipedia article.

I'm still leaning very much towards this http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cdesign_proponentsists

[Silver-Tiger]

Going to Munich on Sunday morning for 3 days.

Anyone have any recommendations?

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[Emmet]

lols you start with some bs free-market Friedman diatribe on old-school rent controls from the 1960s. Then you don't know that Alan Kelly was talking about providing rent certainty rather than controls on what something can rent for. Now you're making a point which literally everyone knows that we need more houses.

Of course landlords will adjust initial prices to take account of future restrictions on their ability to raise prices, and then if a tenant chooses to accept that they have reasonable rent certainty. Of course we need more houses to solve this.

I must go before I lose more braincells

In brief

Hitch says Alan Kelly was good, and rent certainty is a good idea.
I post saying that almost everyone accepts that rent controls are a bad idea.
Hitch says "rent certainty" not "rent controls".
I ask Hitch to define them both, give us a compare and contrast.
Hitch doesn't manage this.
I point out that the 'rent certainty' part that Hitch says was a good idea is covered well in the paper about 'rent controls' which suggests that it is a bad idea and gives logical reasoning behind why. I ask for a definition of rent Certainty (mostly to show that it is simply a subset of Controls and is widely understood to be so)
Hitch must go before he loses braincells.

Did I miss anything?

edit: Lol, Hitch links a wiki article titled 'Rent control in New York' which discusses rent certainty as an element of rent control.

[Denny Crane]

Think he learned that debating style from BL!

[Strewelpeter]

Your perception is preciously my point. If you don't enjoy looking at it, that's entirely your call - as I already said. It's fairly easy to see where you are coming from and I'm not for second trying to chance your opinion. I simply find it strange that you really enjoying big hits in rubgy, and in doing so choose to ignore or apologize for the physical repercussions it. The "if you did that on the streets you'd be charged" argument is silly. If a 120kg prop tackled a bystander on the street he's also be charged.

Aye, indeed I find it strange to but the point is intent and the guy a props runs into on a pitch isn't a bystander.

I disagree with your point about the intent to injury.

I think we'd have to agree to differ there. I can't see how you play the game without intending to injure the other guy more than you get injured. Thats the only way to win, again I don't really have any problem with consenting adults getting into a ring and kicking the shite out of each other in the name of sport as long as there are some rules. Its UFC as a heavily marketed spectator sport that allows the kind of thing that was posted yesterday within its rules makes me feel queasy.

[ArmaniJeans]

@fellow cat people,
Are those toys with cat nip inside them a wee bit cruel?
Last night Ghost () spent an increasingly frustrated 2 hours trying to bite her way through the exterior to get to the cat heroin inside, seems almost unfair that's it a game the cat can't win.

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[Strewelpeter]

^This 100%.

Situational awareness and conflict avoidness are the two best qualities in self defense.
Another benefit is knowing how to position yourself to protect yourself.

There was a great gif I saw recently that showed the best way to defend against someone with a Samurai sword...can't find it now maybe someone can drag it up it was on imgur just the other day.

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[iSnow]

What say the recruiters - eventually: Python/Go/finance Masters+PhD/two years work experience in a fintech startup. Is that gold, or is there still something missing that would cause problems? Trying to work out the potential gaps now so they can be addressed.

“Alice asked the Cheshire Cat, who was sitting in a tree, “What road do I take?”

The cat asked, “Where do you want to go?”

“I don’t know,” Alice answered.

“Then,” said the cat, “it really doesn’t matter, does it?”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

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[Emmet]

Well one last one. Heres a published peer-reviewed paper in an excellent journal showing that rent stabilization is positive for housing development; and the very first paragraph contrasts rent stabilization with the old school rent control you mentioned.

Which applies to the conversation we're having how exactly? The paper discusses price discovery (i.e market rates paid) with zero reference to frequency of review.

You'll note, in contrast, that the middle paper on Germany you linked is just a think tank document from a free market lobby organisation. Indeed the Institute for Economic Affairs was most notably in the news for lobbying against tobacco regulations while taking funding from tobacco firms.

Oh absolutely, they're almost militant in their free marketeering. Are they wrong though?

This is the Ad Hominem Fallacy to debate that we have been through before, you can't dismiss the argument because of who's making it. Dismiss the argument through reasoning

Where does their reasoning break down?

[Emmet]

"covered well" in a lobbying document by these people:

Ad Hominem. Attack the argument not the arguer. Where does the reasoning break down?

I just linked you an actual academic paper that contrasts controls and certainty. See the first paragraph.

You have in your bollix!

Copy & paste from the paper if you have!

[mdoug]

There was a great gif I saw recently that showed the best way to defend against someone with a Samurai sword...can't find it now maybe someone can drag it up it was on imgur just the other day.

http://i.imgur.com/r7mpBQi.gifv

ezpz

[shrapnel]

There was a great gif I saw recently that showed the best way to defend against someone with a Samurai sword...can't find it now maybe someone can drag it up it was on imgur just the other day.

[Tar.Aldarion]

There was a great gif I saw recently that showed the best way to defend against someone with a Samurai sword...can't find it now maybe someone can drag it up it was on imgur just the other day.

I imagine similar to what this self defense teacher teaches for dealing with attackers:

[eoghan104]

I am just reading back at people suggesting that MMA training would give you no advantage in a fight situation in real life. My head has just exploded.

Anyway, are people playing poker this Saturday as suggested by V4V? Is it the Emporium?

[Strewelpeter]

I imagine similar to what this self defense teacher teaches for dealing with attackers:

Yea more like the second one

Thats the only thing we need to teach our kids... run as fast as you can

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[Emmet]

You love the word ad hominem. I did dismiss the argument through reasoning by pointing to an article in an excellent peer-reviewed journal that says modern rent stabilisation is positive for the market; they provide a review of prior research demonstrating this, develop a logical model, and then use data to support their hypothesis. I choose to believe, as anyone should, the arguments made in this article rather than yours.

Its two words. I am forced to bring it up when people commit the fallacy. You have not dismissed the argument. You have instead dismissed the person making the argument. Threshold arrived at the same conclusion as the paper in the earlier link. Does your 'dismissal of the argument' hold true when they make it? If not, then you have not dismissed the argument!

There's also the fact that the majority of people in continental Europe live under rent certainty laws, and renting is generally higher in rent certainty countries.

What is rent certainty Hitch? A definition would be great. Some definitions would already consider Ireland as already having rent certainty!

I do aswell now, and its great, I don't have to worry about the landlord bankrupting me with rent increases like people in Dublin (we were due to have our rent spiked by €300 a month before leaving; something which couldn't happen in France, and which if Alan Kelly's regulations had been better implemented would have been prevented in Ireland).

These are woefully poor arguments. Anecdotally, a Greek in 2005 could say the same about how wonderful the Greek Pension and retirement system was.

The already existing legislation allows appeals of unfair rent increases.

I may have had to pay more initial rent because of the rent certainty system, but thats a fine payoff imo.

Without a rent certainty system, you are just as entitled to come to this arrangement with your landlord. You know this right? You can sign a longer term lease with a higher rental amount if you both wish. Choice is a great thing imo.

Alan Kelly didn't do a good job with his half-assed system, but the idea of what he was trying to do is generally a good one for renters, and for landlords looking for decent long-term renters.

Same argument can be made for Paul Murphy trying to get lower direct costs for his constituents in the oul 'bin the bills' 'stop the water charges' campaigns. Is endeavour enough?

We need more houses though, everyone knows that, and thats the crux of the problem. Rent certainty isn't going to stop houses being built; dumbass regulations do that; but it'll make renting a more pleasant experience.

It certainly makes it a more expensive one (as you've alluded to, as Threshold suggested, and as IEA also discussed at length).

[Raoul Duke III]

Rent certainty is about certainty over price increases over the life of a rental contract.

We have that already. The real issue is the short-term nature of almost all Irish rental contracts.

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[RichieM]

Aye, indeed I find it strange to but the point is intent and the guy a props runs into on a pitch isn't a bystander.


I think we'd have to agree to differ there. I can't see how you play the game without intending to injure the other guy more than you get injured. Thats the only way to win, again I don't really have any problem with consenting adults getting into a ring and kicking the shite out of each other in the name of sport as long as there are some rules. Its UFC as a heavily marketed spectator sport that allows the kind of thing that was posted yesterday within its rules makes me feel queasy.

When I played rugby and the opportunity presented itself that the outhalf was fumbling with a messy pass my intention was 100% to hurt him with a big hit. The hits were always in the rules but still in my mind I wanted to really smash him so that he would be jittery for the rest of the match.

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[Emmet]

The nature of an argument, in its true sense of meaning, means that the sources you use are vital. It is perfectly reasonable to dismiss Business Insider blogposts or a think tanks opinion piece, if you have better sources that have been critically developed and reviewed.

What??
You really need to brush up on your logic.

Ad hominen - dismissing an argument because of who's making it - is valid if the sources are dodgy, and is the essence of academic research and argument. The academic style comes in for some criticisms, but academic rigour has developed most of the modern economy, from chemistry to pharma to the finance industry.

It is baffling that you think this.

An argument stands on its own merits, not on the merits of the person presenting it.

You're now guilty of another logical Fallacy, the Appeal to Authority.

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[Emmet]

Never sure if you're trolling or serious. Really hoping for the former.

[horatio1]

This is one change I don't agree with. A slap on the arse did none of mine any harm. Didn't happen often but the threat was used regularly enough. Kids will turn into little bastards without discipline. I don't agree with beating them but we should be allowed to give the backside a slap when required.

How do you know MrsF ? My mother came out with this line the other day in a discussion with my in-laws. She never discussed it with me so I presume she is making the assumption based on the fact that I haven't turned out to be an axe murderer and I would hope that if she asked her friends they would speak of me in good terms.

I think your kids would have turned out to be the fine people they are with or without the physical discipline due to the moral guidance they were given by their parents. You say it didn't happen often, but it surely shows it is flawed as a deterrent if it is needed more than once? It certainly was never a deterrent for me if I was about to get up to mischief when I was growing up. It was horrible if you were caught but certainly not a deterrent.

How hard does the slap on the arse have to be in order to be effective ? Hard enough to leave a mark ? I don't think it is right that someone four or five times the size of a two or three year old should have the right to hit them to the point of leaving a mark just because they brought the child into the world.

If a child has done something or behaved badly enough to be disciplined , usually the parent is at the very least annoyed and often angry. They are probably not going to be thinking about hitting their child with the exact amount of force necessary to have a good effect without being too hard. The one I always remember is where the smack was giving to coincide withe each syllable of the sentence she was shouting at me.

I love my Mam, it was a different time and that's mostly how things were done, she brought three of us up on her own and none of us have ended up in prison ( yet). Did it do me any harm? It obviously has had some effect on me to the point that I would never hit my children. I think I would have made the same mistakes I have made and done the same good things I have done had I been brought up without physical discipline.

I am glad the law has been passed but I don't expect to see many people charged for breaking it.

[dobby]

The middle aged woman cackle is definitely the most horrible ear piercing sound you'll hear.

Some wan called to see the boss and that sound is going through me.

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[mdoug]

Was going through top 100's of movies and noticed I had seen lots of every list(different genres). Would be interesting to know how many movies I have seen.

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[shrapnel]

How do you know MrsF ? My mother came out with this line the other day in a discussion with my in-laws. She never discussed it with me so I presume she is making the assumption based on the fact that I haven't turned out to be an axe murderer and I would hope that if she asked her friends they would speak of me in good terms.

I think your kids would have turned out to be the fine people they are with or without the physical discipline due to the moral guidance they were given by their parents. You say it didn't happen often, but it surely shows it is flawed as a deterrent if it is needed more than once? It certainly was never a deterrent for me if I was about to get up to mischief when I was growing up. It was horrible if you were caught but certainly not a deterrent.

How hard does the slap on the arse have to be in order to be effective ? Hard enough to leave a mark ? I don't think it is right that someone four or five times the size of a two or three year old should have the right to hit them to the point of leaving a mark just because they brought the child into the world.

If a child has done something or behaved badly enough to be disciplined , usually the parent is at the very least annoyed and often angry. They are probably not going to be thinking about hitting their child with the exact amount of force necessary to have a good effect without being too hard. The one I always remember is where the smack was giving to coincide withe each syllable of the sentence she was shouting at me.

I love my Mam, it was a different time and that's mostly how things were done, she brought three of us up on her own and none of us have ended up in prison ( yet). Did it do me any harm? It obviously has had some effect on me to the point that I would never hit my children. I think I would have made the same mistakes I have made and done the same good things I have done had I been brought up without physical discipline.

I am glad the law has been passed but I don't expect to see many people charged for breaking it.

it's not about the people who give a slap on the arse of their kids. it's about protecting kids from the people who hide behind the "reasonable chastisement" defence when slapping/punching/kicking their kids black and blue. No one is going to be prosecuted for a slap, but the courts will be able to protect kids from abusive/violent parents in a much more effective manner.

[Emmet]

Theres too many possible arguments, not least in economics, so you need a filtering rule. A handy filtering rule is to judge arguments as better if they have already been assessed by expert peers and deemed worthy enough to be published in a leading journal.

I'm pretty much agreed on this with an enormous however;

The paper you posted did not say what you said it did. It was almost irrelevant in the entire debate. It provides a theoretical framework to discuss the effects of rent certainty on the creation of housing stock. I invited you to link the paper to the debate at hand instead. You did not.

Given that the paper did not argue against the IEA paper's arguments, I asked you to counter them. You did not. Their arguments stand unabashed.

Not only that, but Threshold agree with them, heck you even agreed with them!

You might not agree with this, but a think tank opinion that has not been through a rigourous review process is always deemed less than something published.

Agreed. However their paper is not a standalone piece. It is more than 'broadly in agreement' with the other authorities on the matter. See the 3rd link I gave which polled other authorities and came to similar conclusions.

Sometimes good arguments get lost in this filtering process, but everyone can have their arguments properly assessed if they wish them to be respected.

Do this so. Tear down their arguments. I've invited you to do so repeatedly.

Thats why your course is Edinburgh would have been almost built almost exclusively on published research (turned into textbooks) rather than blog posts.

Yes. This is science. 'The marketplace of ideas'.
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Now that we've come full circle, can I remind you where we started? You suggested that Alan Kelly's proposals for rent certainty were a good idea, I posted 3 links, one from 40 odd years ago, one from last year, and another a quasi-meta analysis of economic authorities on the subject of rent controls. The overwhelming majority of which agreed that rent controls are a bad idea.

I've asked you to explain the difference between these two statements, "rent certainty is a good idea" and "rent controls are a bad idea", and you have not managed to do so.

I even gave you a hint, with the 'cdesign proponentsists' link that Alan Kelly's 'Rent Certainty' is already part of what economists call 'Rent Controls'. If we re-name rain, it's still wet.

At least some are open and honest about it (Link 1 (Irish Times),Link 2 (Indo), Link 3 (Newstalk), Link 4 (Reuters), Link 5 (the journal))
From that final link...

He previously indicated his support for a motion at the Labour party conference to freeze private-sector rents for two years, although he said he was talking about a model for “rent certainty” rather than rent control.

(their inverted commas, not mine)

I suggest you start with Tom Dunne of DIT's piece on the matter in coming up with a defence of your statement

http://arrow.dit.ie/beschrecrep/12/

[Tar.Aldarion]

How do you know MrsF ? My mother came out with this line the other day in a discussion with my in-laws. She never discussed it with me so I presume she is making the assumption based on the fact that I haven't turned out to be an axe murderer and I would hope that if she asked her friends they would speak of me in good terms.

I think your kids would have turned out to be the fine people they are with or without the physical discipline due to the moral guidance they were given by their parents. You say it didn't happen often, but it surely shows it is flawed as a deterrent if it is needed more than once? It certainly was never a deterrent for me if I was about to get up to mischief when I was growing up. It was horrible if you were caught but certainly not a deterrent.

How hard does the slap on the arse have to be in order to be effective ? Hard enough to leave a mark ? I don't think it is right that someone four or five times the size of a two or three year old should have the right to hit them to the point of leaving a mark just because they brought the child into the world.

If a child has done something or behaved badly enough to be disciplined , usually the parent is at the very least annoyed and often angry. They are probably not going to be thinking about hitting their child with the exact amount of force necessary to have a good effect without being too hard. The one I always remember is where the smack was giving to coincide withe each syllable of the sentence she was shouting at me.

I love my Mam, it was a different time and that's mostly how things were done, she brought three of us up on her own and none of us have ended up in prison ( yet). Did it do me any harm? It obviously has had some effect on me to the point that I would never hit my children. I think I would have made the same mistakes I have made and done the same good things I have done had I been brought up without physical discipline.

I am glad the law has been passed but I don't expect to see many people charged for breaking it.

I agree, i think "I hit my children and they turned out fine" doesn't really go towards proving that it was ok and also you may not know the way it has affected them. Plenty of children that aren't hit are also fine or not fine. My parents, and I love them dearly, damaged me by hitting me. I resented them and it was the same light kind of thing that MrsF would be talking about, not even the stuff that happens to others. They don't know that it affected me, I'm sure they too think it is fine because I turned out well. They don't get I'd probably turn out better without it and if they did something else to get me to behave. Having seen what hitting things has done to adults after they have grown up it really saddens me the attitude people have here towards it "just being a slap". To some children yes I think it may not affect them, to others it would, you don't know what is really going on in that childs mind.

Thing is when you say it has taught you not to hit others, for most people it is the opposite, it instills in them it is ok to do it, even when they have been hit quite badly. It's only some people that snap out of that pattern. Hell I've gotten the urge to hit youngsters and animals that are being "naughty" because of it I feel. Your formative years are not an easy thing to dismiss.

[Strewelpeter]

So if Emmett is right that rent certainty is just a synonym for rent control then we need rent controls.

[Emmet]

So if Emmett is right that rent certainty is just a synonym for rent control then we need rent controls.

Just google 'rent certainty' and see how many results are older than a year, and are not from Ireland.

[RichieM]

I agree, i think "I hit my children and they turned out fine" doesn't really go towards proving that it was ok and also you may not know the way it has affected them. Plenty of children that aren't hit are also fine or not fine. My parents, and I love them dearly, damaged me by hitting me. I resented them and it was the same light kind of thing that MrsF would be talking about, not even the stuff that happens to others. They don't know that it affected me, I'm sure they too think it is fine because I turned out well. They don't get I'd probably turn out better without it and if they did something else to get me to behave. Having seen what hitting things has done to adults after they have grown up it really saddens me the attitude people have here towards it "just being a slap". To some children yes I think it may not affect them, to others it would, you don't know what is really going on in that childs mind.

Thing is when you say it has taught you not to hit others, for most people it is the opposite, it instills in them it is ok to do it, even when they have been hit quite badly. It's only some people that snap out of that pattern. Hell I've gotten the urge to hit youngsters and animals that are being "naughty" because of it I feel. Your formative years are not an easy thing to dismiss.

That is interesting and I have to admit I got a few slaps on the bum when I was young and being bold. Very rarely tho. Physical damage is very minimal obv but an open handed smack does sting but when boundaries need to be established and kids do need boundaries the other option is a psychological punishment.

I would have thought a longer lasting psychological punishment like being made sit in the naughty corner or being ignored would cumulatively have a larger effect on development than a smack. I obv have no reason or training to have come to this conclusion but it is what I thought for some reason. One for Hotspur I guess.

[careca]

someone throw up that gif of the blond bird in the car.

just to get away from rent certainty and mma arguments for a bit

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[horatio1]

it's not about the people who give a slap on the arse of their kids. it's about protecting kids from the people who hide behind the "reasonable chastisement" defence when slapping/punching/kicking their kids black and blue. No one is going to be prosecuted for a slap, but the courts will be able to protect kids from abusive/violent parents in a much more effective manner.

I don't think anyone who beats a child black and blue could hide behind a reasonable chastisement defense. The law is clearly designed to break the general acceptance that hitting a child in anyway is wrong. I just don't see how it can be policed if it is happening in the privacy of a home.

Thing is when you say it has taught you not to hit others, for most people it is the opposite, it instills in them it is ok to do it, even when they have been hit quite badly. It's only some people that snap out of that pattern. Hell I've gotten the urge to hit youngsters and animals that are being "naughty" because of it I feel. Your formative years are not an easy thing to dismiss.

It was only later on in life that I realised this Tar. It would have been the norm in my house for me and my elder siblings to sort out our differences through fairly violent fights. The example we were being shown was to meet bad behaviour with violence.

[tylerdurden94]

So during EPT Prague this week Gavin O'Rourke cashed two side events for €30,000 finished 10th in the Main for € 56,950 and as you can see above binked a $100,000 Spin & Go.

[Denny Crane]

So if Emmett is right that rent certainty is just a synonym for rent control then we need rent controls.

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[Strewelpeter]

Why on earth would you have a straight line Pr there

[Emmet]

And then google what it is called in Europe "rent regulation", and in the US "rent stabilization", to see that rent certainty is a new term for a longstanding idea

Of course, when you google both those terms you'll find that they link to Rent Controls, but don't let that dissuade you from attempting to pretend that they aren't...

[Lazare]

For me it's all about what you're teaching the child by slapping regardless of how mild or severe or whereabouts on the body. Personally I won't ever smack my kids, I don't want to teach them that it's how problems are solved.

I had both, my Mam gave me the odd slap but my Dad never once did. I had no respect for my Mam going up, but tons for my Dad, all he had to do was express disappointment for me to feel ashamed. I'm happy to follow that.

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[Emmet]

The very first link is to Rent Regulation, where Rent Control is said to be the old term referring to the historic practice of putting a ceiling on the price of rent. Notable last paragraph.

I'll assume you missed the subheading suggesting that they are one in the same, and the first paragraph that suggests confounding factors

"Rent control" redirects here. For other uses, see Rent control (disambiguation).

Generally a system of rent regulation involves:

• price controls, limits on the rent that landlord may charge, historically known as rent control
• standards by which a landlord may terminate a tenancy (an equivalent of unfair dismissal from employment in tenancies)
• obligations on the landlord or tenant regarding adequate maintenance of the property
• a system of oversight and enforcement by an independent regulator and Ombudsman

Any thoughts on 'The Economic Journal' as a source btw?

The Economics of Tenancy Rent Control
(full text here)

6. Conclusion
...
This paper constructed a model of tenancy rent control and showed that this kind of rent control system, with asymmetric information and exogenously given tenant types(....), lead to outcomes that are Pareto sub-optimal. Free contracting, however, allows the agents in this model to overcome the asymmetric information problem.
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Removal of rent control laws can not only increase efficiency in the rental market, but can also lead to a general lowering of rents, making all tenants better off.

A number of empirical implications arise from our model. Since landlords cannot write departure date contingent contracts or have a rent escalation clause included in the contract, the landlord must set initial rents higher to compensate for the erosion of real rents suffered during occupancy. This should lead to across-the-board higher rents in rent-controlled apartments that are being offered on the market (vacant apartments) than comparable offering in non rent controlled cities (as found in Nagy, 1997).

Tenancy Rent Control* is precisely what you were espousing as a good idea earlier.

*Rent Certainty by another new name, one that carefully doesn't include 'control', because everyone knows that rent controls are bad...

[Tar.Aldarion]

Yeah, we had to train ourselves (still a work in progress) away from using psychological warfare on the kid.

Standard example: i go 'clean your room', she says 'but I want to play with my doll', and i say 'well your a stinky poo'. she goes 'thats an ad hominem attack read this daily mail article that supports my point'

The problem is that making persuasive positive arguments for improved behaviour in little kids is darned hard work.

Yeah i expect that is a multi generational thing to work on, you treat your kid the best way you can, they treat their kids better than that. Raising a child sounds ridiculously hard, I'm out

I don't think anyone who beats a child black and blue could hide behind a reasonable chastisement defense. The law is clearly designed to break the general acceptance that hitting a child in anyway is wrong. I just don't see how it can be policed if it is happening in the privacy of a home.



It was only later on in life that I realised this Tar. It would have been the norm in my house for me and my elder siblings to sort out our differences through fairly violent fights. The example we were being shown was to meet bad behaviour with violence.

Now that you say it I would see the same thing, when something wasn't right we would feel bad and hit each other, because well that's how we sort out things isn't it?

That is interesting and I have to admit I got a few slaps on the bum when I was young and being bold. Very rarely tho. Physical damage is very minimal obv but an open handed smack does sting but when boundaries need to be established and kids do need boundaries the other option is a psychological punishment.

I would have thought a longer lasting psychological punishment like being made sit in the naughty corner or being ignored would cumulatively have a larger effect on development than a smack. I obv have no reason or training to have come to this conclusion but it is what I thought for some reason. One for Hotspur I guess.

Hitting somebody is a psychological as well as a physical punishment, I agree with you that other psychological punishments could be worse, it would vary on the punishment.
As Hitch says, acting in a better way is harder work and the people raising the kids are not perfect.

[Strewelpeter]

6. Conclusion
...
This paper constructed a model of tenancy rent control and showed that this kind of rent control system, with asymmetric information and exogenously given tenant types(....), lead to outcomes that are Pareto sub-optimal. Free contracting, however, allows the agents in this model to overcome the asymmetric information problem.

Tell that to people whose rents are being doubled in a market where interest rates are 0, there are thousands of empty properties and there is no security of tenure.

I don't like the idea of rent control but this is not 'Nam there have to be rules.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[MrsFlushdraw]

How do you know MrsF ? My mother came out with this line the other day in a discussion with my in-laws. She never discussed it with me so I presume she is making the assumption based on the fact that I haven't turned out to be an axe murderer and I would hope that if she asked her friends they would speak of me in good terms.

I think your kids would have turned out to be the fine people they are with or without the physical discipline due to the moral guidance they were given by their parents. You say it didn't happen often, but it surely shows it is flawed as a deterrent if it is needed more than once? It certainly was never a deterrent for me if I was about to get up to mischief when I was growing up. It was horrible if you were caught but certainly not a deterrent.

How hard does the slap on the arse have to be in order to be effective ? Hard enough to leave a mark ? I don't think it is right that someone four or five times the size of a two or three year old should have the right to hit them to the point of leaving a mark just because they brought the child into the world.

If a child has done something or behaved badly enough to be disciplined , usually the parent is at the very least annoyed and often angry. They are probably not going to be thinking about hitting their child with the exact amount of force necessary to have a good effect without being too hard. The one I always remember is where the smack was giving to coincide withe each syllable of the sentence she was shouting at me.

I love my Mam, it was a different time and that's mostly how things were done, she brought three of us up on her own and none of us have ended up in prison ( yet). Did it do me any harm? It obviously has had some effect on me to the point that I would never hit my children. I think I would have made the same mistakes I have made and done the same good things I have done had I been brought up without physical discipline.

I am glad the law has been passed but I don't expect to see many people charged for breaking it.

For me it's all about what you're teaching the child by slapping regardless of how mild or severe or whereabouts on the body. Personally I won't ever smack my kids, I don't want to teach them that it's how problems are solved.

I had both, my Mam gave me the odd slap but my Dad never once did. I had no respect for my Mam going up, but tons for my Dad, all he had to do was express disappointment for me to feel ashamed. I'm happy to follow that.

Lazare, wait until the kid grows a bit. Easy to say you won't ever give a slap when they are babies. But kids can push you to the limits.

I honestly don't think my kids harbour any grudge for the odd slap.
I did parenting classes and you should not dish out punishment when really angry, but in reality as a parent you have to hold back. No need to knock them about. I think you will find more mammies slap and daddy is the good cop. Tough roll for the woman.

I honestly think I exercised the right amount of discipline and my kids will be good humans and something their partners in later life will appreciate!