Bad beat/Moan/Venting Thread - BBV Archive 1

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[TomD]

Lenihan dead

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1259&bih=845&q=brian+lenihan&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=

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[DeadParrot]

Agreed. Poor fella

[Raoul Duke III]

Apparently it's been verified. RIP. Terrible stuff with the young kids.

http://twitter.com/#!/breakingnewsie

Probably in the 'too soon' category but wtf was he doing running for re-election in the recent election when he was dying?

And, even more so, wtf was a dying man doing as Minister for Finance at a time of national emergency? The decisions taken by him when he was in no condition to do so have bankrupted this country.

On a human level, it's sad for his family that he's dead but he was an absolute disaster from a political standpoint. That may sound callous but it's my honest belief. Prepare for mass outbreaks of bullshit on RTE later today. Apologies for the tone of this post, I'm sure I'll get flamed for it.

[careca]

Very sad news. RIP.

[tylerdurden94]

Had a nice few pints in Kehoes tonight and managed to get a free budvar in that the table next to us ordered and then left there, amateurs. Thankfully didnt bring the bankroll with me to make it to the Sporting. I did lose my phone along the way tho

Jesus you are a disaster should of taken out that insurance

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[careca]

Probably in the 'too soon' category but wtf was he doing running for re-election in the recent election when he was dying?

And, even more so, wtf was a dying man doing as Minister for Finance at a time of national emergency? The decisions taken by him when he was in no condition to do so have bankrupted this country.

On a human level, it's sad for his family that he's dead but he was an absolute disaster from a political standpoint. That may sound callous but it's my honest belief. Prepare for mass outbreaks of bullshit on RTE later today. Apologies for the tone of this post, I'm sure I'll get flamed for it.

Whether they were the right decisions or not, I believe he thought them to be the right decisions. I'm not naieve by any means but I think he did have a lot of sincerity about him and I wouldn't mix him in with the other FF cronies. I'm obv aware of his father's history in government but I think he was decent enough. all imo of course.

[Raoul Duke III]

Whether they were the right decisions or not, I believe he thought them to be the right decisions. I'm not naieve by any means but I think he did have a lot of sincerity about him and I wouldn't mix him in with the other FF cronies. I'm obv aware of his father's history in government but I think he was decent enough. all imo of course.

It'll be interesting to see whether you think the same thing in a few years when the full consequences of his actions are brought to bear directly on you.

He faked sincerity very well, I'll give him that.

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[DeadParrot]

I sincerly doubt his condition influenced his policies Raoul.
As for running for re-election, I don't think he was planning on dying

[Kayroo]

RIP Brian Lenihan. A sad loss. No matter what you think of him he never walked away from his duties when it mattered.

[Raoul Duke III]

Pardon the ignorance here, but is Gay running as a Fine Gael candidate? Highly interested in betting on Mairead Mc vs Pat Cox for the Fine Gael nomination, but obv Gay would mess it up if he was to seek the nomination.

4/1 Mairead vs 1/7 Pat Cox is ridiculous

apparently he is seeking a nomination, always thought he was a nutcase myself (remember the Dublin Olympic bid?)

If it's a two horse race for the nomination between MMcG and Cox, as posted yesterday 4/1 is a great bet, as is the 11/1 her to win outright.

all that probably happened is that someone lobbed a pony on Gay in PP last night!

[Strewelpeter]

ah Raoul - definitely way too soon for stuff like that imo

Way too late IMO

Personal feelings are all very well and good but he was dealing in decisions that will have real life and death repercussions for millions of people over the next 20 years. Your child's future is affected in a very real way by the bad decisions he made.

[Raoul Duke III]

I sincerly doubt his condition influenced his policies Raoul.

Ah, I wish he had had 'policies'! That word implies strategy, thinking, analysis.

Instead we got panicked insane measures based on incorrect analysis - and mainly aimed at shoring up the wealth of Fianna Fail's donor base.

You know I've been posting about that and the fallout for years - what do you want me to do, turn around and say 'he was a great man entirely'? Typical Irish hypocrisy.

[Guest]

I sincerly doubt his condition influenced his policies Raoul.

Being that sick affects your brain, affects your view on life, that affects your thought processes, that affects your decisions, all very simple

Job should have been taken off him but I doubt anyone else in FF had the balls to do the job

Whether they were the right decisions or not, I believe he thought them to be the right decisions.

Right decisions for whom is the question

[Lord Sir Banter]

Being that sick affects your brain, affects your view on life, that affects your thought processes, that affects your decisions, all very simple

Bit of a generalisation, impossible to quantify really.
It's not fair to right people off when they are sick/terminal.

[ghostface]

Jesus you are a disaster should of taken out that insurance

it wasnt the iphone

[Raoul Duke III]

Bit of a generalisation, impossible to quantify really.
It's not fair to right people off when they are sick/terminal.

with cancer it's not so much the disease that affects your ability to make decisions, it's the treatment

[RichieM]

Way too late IMO

Personal feelings are all very well and good but he was dealing in decisions that will have real life and death repercussions for millions of people over the next 20 years. Your child's future is affected in a very real way by the bad decisions he made.

All very true but I always think you are supposed to wait for a corpse to go cold before bringing up their past faults. Love him or hate him it basically comes down to decorum imo.

[Raoul Duke III]

All very true but I always think you are supposed to wait for a corpse to go cold before bringing up their past faults. Love him or hate him it basically comes down to decorum imo.

There'll be a hundred obituary articles tomorrow, lots of them will mention the fact that, as a Minister for Finance, his decisions pretty much bankrupted an entire nation.

Hopefully none of them include the phrases 'dedicated public servant', 'true patriot' etc. We had to endure enough bullshit when Haughey died.

[Lord Sir Banter]

There'll be a hundred obituary articles tomorrow, lots of them will mention the fact that, as a Minister for Finance, his decisions pretty much bankrupted an entire nation.

Hopefully none of them include the phrases 'dedicated public servant', 'true patriot' etc. We had to endure enough bullshit when Haughey died.

Best to avoid the AH thread, might tilt you.

[Guest]

Bit of a generalisation, impossible to quantify really.
It's not fair to right people off when they are sick/terminal.

Wasn't writing him off, just should not have that power while getting treated for cancer, if he had recovered he could have gone straight back into cabinet

He was the best of an awful bad lot tbf to him

condolences to the family

*not a generalisation at all btw, any change in your life will affect all other aspects of your life, the bigger the change the bigger the affect elsewhere

[Raoul Duke III]

aha!

gay-boy is in the betting for the FG nomination now

[Zuroph]

TBF to Lenihan, he gave us one good budget, went after the public sector hard. I remember the fear going into that budget, and the relief coming out the other side.

[RichieM]

There'll be a hundred obituary articles tomorrow, lots of them will mention the fact that, as a Minister for Finance, his decisions pretty much bankrupted an entire nation.

I am sure that you will be right unfortounatly but I am sure that the sun will have a particularly offensive front page. Likewise the times will have a nice obit focusing on his achievments and what he did right. I also presume people will turn up at his funeral to cause a scene, you tube videos of guys dancing on his grave will be on the way and this is plainly wrong imo.

Guy is dead now, everyone knows what he did during the crisis but a little repect for the dead is manners. In a months time I would be in agreement but now I dont feel its appropriate.

Anyway all I have to say on the matter and I seem to be getting vertigo on this high horse of mine.

[Raoul Duke III]

I seem to be getting vertigo on this high horse of mine.

I likewise am getting whatever the opposite of vertigo is, as I am clearly the lowest of the low

[RasTa]

Just got two wisdom teeth pulled, that was an interesting experience. The Hungarian dentist made it even more surreal. "yes, yes, good good"

[Loopz]

vertilo

[RichieM]

vertilo

I didn't know that but if Kayroo agrees than it must be true

[EnzoScifo]

I am sure that you will be right unfortounatly but I am sure that the sun will have a particularly offensive front page. Likewise the times will have a nice obit focusing on his achievments and what he did right. I also presume people will turn up at his funeral to cause a scene, you tube videos of guys dancing on his grave will be on the way and this is plainly wrong imo.

Really? I dont think their will be.

[Sirtoyou]

I am sure that you will be right unfortounatly but I am sure that the sun will have a particularly offensive front page. Likewise the times will have a nice obit focusing on his achievments and what he did right. I also presume people will turn up at his funeral to cause a scene, you tube videos of guys dancing on his grave will be on the way and this is plainly wrong imo.

Guy is dead now, everyone knows what he did during the crisis but a little repect for the dead is manners. In a months time I would be in agreement but now I dont feel its appropriate.

Anyway all I have to say on the matter and I seem to be getting vertigo on this high horse of mine.

I didn't hear many of those sentiments last month when Osama died.

[Strewelpeter]

Via /.

"Patrick Flanagan serves as the token human in robot percussion group Jazari. In this video Flanagan controls his bots with a Wiimote and a custom Arduino controller made from arcade buttons, zebra wood, and springbook horns..."


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pOQ2sde98k&[/ame]

[Zuroph]

I didn't hear many of those sentiments last month when Osama died.

Just realised, we need a new equivalent of the Godwins Law..

hmm.

[RichieM]

I didn't hear many of those sentiments last month when Osama died.

Stupid comparrison.

[ionapaul]

Can't see any grave-dancing for Lenny; most people respected him and thought he did a reasonable job given the circumstances. Even when someone really fecks up, if they are seen to do so without having much malice, people can tolerate it so much more. Dancing on Haughey's grave was a special circumstance; people are likely to do the same to Bertie when he is gone, that is for sure!

Don't agree with grave-dancing myself, it doesn't matter to the dead and can only offend the living relatives, who aren't the target.

[Sirtoyou]

Not really call a spade a spade imo on the day he will be discussed most.I'm not comparing Lenihan to Osama obviously but as per your point of waiting till the corpse turns cold until you have ago I bet Osama didn't get that.

[Kayroo]

Respect for the dead is an odd thing. I think it comes from 2 places: a desire to avoid upsetting a grieving family and a hope that when we die others show us the grace in remembering only our successes that we have shown others.

The decisions Brian Lenihan made will have reverberations for decades, impacting generation after generation of Irish people but when we reflect on the life of the man we should also recognize a man who would have been well within his rights to walk away from the toughest job in Ireland at a time when nobody knew what to do. I recall a post in this thread last year commenting that the only thing stopping the EU/IMF and the market from crashing down on us was Lenihan. Did he make a mess of it? Yes, probably. Did he have the strength of character to do a job that nobody else in his party was capable of, nevermind actually want! Certainly.

You query his motivations and I can understand that but there'll be decades of commentators and historians to dissect that. The most difficult time to judge the entirety of an action is while it's happening. I have always believed Lenihan was a genuine person with honest integrity and a dedication to what he did. That should be the memory of today. Let the inevitable opprobrium be the memory of tomorrow.

[Raoul Duke III]

approbrium

the rest of your post passed me by

[BallymoreChris]

There'll be a hundred obituary articles tomorrow, lots of them will mention the fact that, as a Minister for Finance, his decisions pretty much bankrupted an entire nation.

Hopefully none of them include the phrases 'dedicated public servant', 'true patriot' etc. We had to endure enough bullshit when Haughey died.

comparing him to Haughey is very poor form imo

[ghostface]

Kayroo made a mistake, I'm scared

[Kayroo]

the rest of your post passed me by

No idea how that one happened! Good catch.

[Angry-Ball]

glowing tributes paid to brian lenihan on pat kenny there, can't for the life of me figure out why they didn't contact our own RDIII for his views on the life and times of BL

[Raoul Duke III]

comparing him to Haughey is very poor form imo

I'm not comparing him to Haughey (although oddly, Haughey's political record might be claimed by many to be positive for the country whereas no-one in their right mind could make the same claim for Lenihan)

It was more a comment on the Irish media and their need to produce hagiographies for the dead; regardless of whether the facts fit.

[Raoul Duke III]

No idea how that one happened! Good catch.

I actually googled it to find out if it was a real word, maybe the opposite of opprobrium

[Strewelpeter]

Cave dwelling FTW

[Raoul Duke III]

where is that SP?

[BallymoreChris]

The facts are....

He was voted in time and time again by the people and after getting into government was considered the best man for various important jobs by his peers.

[Raoul Duke III]

The facts are....

He was voted in time and time again by the people

so was Jackie Healy-Rea

and after getting into government was considered the best man for various important jobs by his peers.

he had no knowledge or experience of finance or economics, only a reputation for being 'clever'. In Fianna Fail, that means the ability to read words of more than one syllable.

this direct quote from him illustrates the point quite nicely:

Deposit flight? I don't see that as a risk. Ireland is an island.

you probably have small children at home who could point out the problem with this

[Lazare]

I'd say there'll be a by-election pretty soon seen as two government candidates were well clear in 5th and 6th

[MisterMonkey]

Any degen gamblers fancy buying a percent of me in the horse $1500 wsop event tomoro? Im not great at some of the games but Id say I ust about have an edge, maybe... will sell up to 500$ worth if anyone wants a rail

If theres any left I'll take it, give you cash next week if that's handy?

[Raoul Duke III]

I'd say there'll be a by-election pretty soon seen as two government candidates were well clear in 5th and 6th

almost completely irrelevant though

I wonder would FF put up Conor Lenihan?

[Denny Crane]

apparently he is seeking a nomination, always thought he was a nutcase myself (remember the Dublin Olympic bid?)

If it's a two horse race for the nomination between MMcG and Cox, as posted yesterday 4/1 is a great bet, as is the 11/1 her to win outright.

all that probably happened is that someone lobbed a pony on Gay in PP last night!

Bbv lambasted me for saying sixteens was huge for her before!

Just realised todays news means there's going to be no ff td in dublin.

[Raoul Duke III]

Just realised todays news means there's going to be no ff td in dublin.

just brings the day closer where you can remove the last two words from that sentence

[Kayroo]

so was Jackie Healy-Rea



he had no knowledge or experience of finance or economics, only a reputation for being 'clever'. In Fianna Fail, that means the ability to read words of more than one syllable.

this direct quote from him illustrates the point quite nicely:



you probably have small children at home who could point out the problem with this

Seriously Glynn, being honest and objective about a man's legacy is one thing but you are bordering on vindictive.

[BallymoreChris]

@ RDIII would the points you are making not be more suitable to be an attack on the system and not the individual?

re the Jackie Healy comment....what do you suggest? remove the vote from certain people?


fwiw I don't believe that democracy works but its the best of a bad bunch of solutions.

If you had a sick family member and were looking for the right treatment would you ever ask for a show of hands from a large group of random people to decide what to do?

The same can be said for foreign/social/economic policy but what do you suggest as a better system?

[Zod]

The question we really want to be asking is if there a market for the by-election yet?

[GingerMilla]

Brian Lenihan public servant RIP. Who'd be a politician anyway?

Some bad decisions as minister for finance but he certainly did'nt cause the banking crisis. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and then to have a terminal cancer diagnosis placed on his already over burdened shoulders. No laying down of tools, just got on with it.

Greed was the root cause and did'nt apply to him. As a qualified barrister he would have commanded a much larger salary with lesser responsibilities.

Despite the grave consequences of his decision making, a lot to admire about the man.

[Sledgejammer]

Latest rumour coming from Spain about Arsenal is that Barca have offered 30m + Bojan + Thiago for Fabregas. So much unrest in the camp with Fabregas, Nasri, Clichy, Wilshere and lolDenilson all subject to transfer speculation. No doubt Van Persie is next to top it all off!

Snap the hand off with that deal imho, will be absolute robbery on Arsenals part. Fabregas wants away, 30m could be spent very wisely to improve the team, Bojan with a new club could actually mature into a top class striker and Thiago has the potential to be one of the best mid fielders in the world, he's not there yet but with good management and if he keeps his head on his shoulders and realises his potential he'll be > Fabregas. Now ofc most young players don't fully realise their potential, but that deal would be an absolute steal.