2 of the young ones (20 or so) in the shop got appointments with the local chemist for their vacc (Jannsen)
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostHas anyone been to Jerusalem? Decided this morning I simply must visit it for some reason.No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.
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Originally posted by hotspur View Post
Why were you only there for a night?No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.
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Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
If we didnt it would look like, 24/7 in your face surveillance, somebmachine type device clasping them in place, spraying them with disinfectant every 10 minutes. Or you know. Injecting them with some toxin against their will through implicit coercion.
And maybe that's where we will end up. And IpB will be like yeah sure, greater good, got to keep everyone safe. Not a huge leap, just a pinch of imagination.
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Originally posted by jbravado View Post
Ehhhhh. Get what this was meant as. But guess what, we do just that. We do trust people to implement their own compass of decency and hygiene when serving and preparing food.
If we didnt it would look like, 24/7 in your face surveillance, somebmachine type device clasping them in place, spraying them with disinfectant every 10 minutes. Or you know. Injecting them with some toxin against their will through implicit coercion.
And maybe that's where we will end up. And IpB will be like yeah sure, greater good, got to keep everyone safe. Not a huge leap, just a pinch of imagination."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
False equivalence alert!
None of those things are transmissable diseases.
(And no, I don't. Tax and health policy should aim to tip people towards sensible choices though)
If you oppose a viewpoint, in general, can someone ever say something to you, that makes you not cling to your original position. Genuine question. Does that happen to you. Not suggesting this case, but in general. I can think of nothing sadder than never having my opinion change by speaking to someone / or reading something from others.
All you can say about any of this, is 'I dont know'. Anything other to me at this of my life, is just the most sedated, comfortable arrogance. An arrogance I pity.
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Originally posted by jbravado View Post
Ehhhhh. Get what this was meant as. But guess what, we do just that. We do trust people to implement their own compass of decency and hygiene when serving and preparing food.
If we didnt it would look like, 24/7 in your face surveillance, somebmachine type device clasping them in place, spraying them with disinfectant every 10 minutes. Or you know. Injecting them with some toxin against their will through implicit coercion.
And maybe that's where we will end up. And IpB will be like yeah sure, greater good, got to keep everyone safe. Not a huge leap, just a pinch of imagination.
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Did you get vaccinated?
No. I havent. I dont think it is your business anyone else's.
There are plenty of people who are wonderfully in awe of science and the wonder of vaccines, that dont believe that it should be anything other than an individual choice.
Personally, I researched whether to extensively. Researched the companies involved ( I'd urge others to do the same - the are for the most about as scummy as it gets). Looked at both sides of the fence, truly gifted and scientifically elite achievers, questioning not only the politics but also the motivation of the vaccine drive.
That's not to say I wont get vaccinated. I find it strange we dont test to see if we had already had it before we do, or if we currently have it. I dont currently plan to. I have endeavored over the last year to make myself as physically and mentally healthy as possible. I dont think Covid is not a thing. It is.
Do I think big pharma has a even vague interest in us being as healthy as possible? No. Do I think government has a sincere interest In our well being. No. Of course not, see the innumerable hypocricies we all live with and ignore on a daily basis.
But then again, there are lots of things I personally find strange and not really coherent about the whole thing. I guess that element is to be expected, we havent been through a pandemic before.
There are between (according to most sources 40 - 60 million people) dying. Actually dying of starvation. Is it a normal thing that there is no sense of urgency to save these people. Or like, lots of things is all we can say is, that a little strange.
We live in a cult. Shit like that happens in cults. The cult is econmics. Consumerism. Capitalism. Call it what you want.
Keep up bloated, and comfortable. Gobbling up whatever nonsense is going to keep feeding the tentacles of money.Last edited by Closed_Account; 13-07-21, 16:56.
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Closed_Account, what is your concern about the vaccination situation? Is it the vaccine itself in respect of safety, or is it the fact that being vaccinated will be required for certain activities in the near future? If the latter, why shouldn't activities be possible for people who are vaccinated when otherwise there would be blanket bans?
edit: started typing before seeing above.
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Originally posted by Emmet View Post
No we don't? We have food safety courses and training that people must keep up with, and if they don't they don't keep the job. Places get routinely checked and are shut down if they don't meet the grades / display poor safety setups.Jayzus, Sheila! I forgot me feckin' trousers
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So hunger Alcoholism and smoking are equivalent to a highly transmissable virus . Wtf ?
If you go back 25 years Cigarettes , Alcohol were the main sponsors of sporting events and TV advertising. The Government under pressure from lobbyists and despite the money being made , banned the cigarette advertising and curbed the reckless national pastime of drink driving . Was it money driven or health driven.
The world starvation is something we need to tackle but it's an entirely different issue .
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Originally posted by Pat Mustard View Post
Had a good laugh at this, you've never worked in food service or hospitality.
Not that my direct experience changes the facts either, just as yours wouldn't if you were to tell me that where you'd worked people regularly gobbed in food etc. We have laws against drink driving too, doesn't mean people don't do it etc.Last edited by Emmet; 13-07-21, 17:33.
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Guest
Originally posted by Pat Mustard View Post
Had a good laugh at this, you've never worked in food service or hospitality.
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Originally posted by jbravado View Post
It's not even remotely false equivalence. Cigarettes kill millions of people. Alcohol immeasurably more. And it's not just the one impacted, its ripple impacts huge numbers more than just the individual. 'Greater good' are you sincerely with a straight face telling me, it would not be in the greater good if they were prohibited? Of course you wouldn't agree with it.
Covid is a transmissable and very nasty disease.
There is a vaccine.
Taking the vaccine makes me safe and the people around me safer.
Not taking the vaccine leaves me personally vulnerable to a horrible disease.
Not taking the vaccine makes me a risk to the other people I come into contact with.
People should be encouraged, with the best scientific advice and evidence, to get vaccinated.
People should not be forced to get vaccinated.
If you choose, against the best scientific advice, not to get vaccinated, then, in the interests of the greater good, if the government sets additional restrictions on you (travel, not being allowed into venues etc), then I think that is an entirely reasonable thing to do.
Originally posted by jbravado View PostIf you oppose a viewpoint, in general, can someone ever say something to you, that makes you not cling to your original position. Genuine question. Does that happen to you. Not suggesting this case, but in general. I can think of nothing sadder than never having my opinion change by speaking to someone / or reading something from others.it.
Anyone who has a job in a collaborative professional environment will be well used to this.
Originally posted by jbravado View PostAllit you can say about any of this, is 'I dont know'. Anything other to me at this of my life, is just the most sedated, comfortable arrogance. An arrogance I pity."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Solksjaer! View PostSo hunger Alcoholism and smoking are equivalent to a highly transmissable virus . Wtf ?
If you go back 25 years Cigarettes , Alcohol were the main sponsors of sporting events and TV advertising. The Government under pressure from lobbyists and despite the money being made , banned the cigarette advertising and curbed the reckless national pastime of drink driving . Was it money driven or health driven.
The world starvation is something we need to tackle but it's an entirely different issue .
Jbravado is trying to set up a strawman argument for his unscientific, minority opinion. And, just to copper-fasten this stance, he's managed to tack on an anti-consumerist rant for good measure.
"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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With smoking Govts can opt for a longer term approach
ban smoking indoors to protect non smokers, make it illegal to serve under 16s, ban advertising, invest in advertising to highlight the harmful effects., tax the living daylights out of it. People still get to choose if they wish to smoke but the harm they can do to others is negligible. There is a balance struck between nanny state and individual choice and over time less and less people will smoke.
With this virus unfortunately the options are limited.
NB
I think JB Bravados observation re people starving should be highlighted. Currently donating a small amount to UNICEF monthly but obviously that's not enough and probably a conscience salving excercise. Not sure how to finish that thought up. Be the one who effects change I suppose.
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Smoking must be odds on to be banned in the near future. At least following the New Zealand model where people born after a certain year are banned from smoking. I think in their case its 2004. So people turning 18 next year can't buy cigarettes as the age of eligibility rises by a year every year from now on. Seems a no brainer as there's zero benefit from smoking for anyone.
Alcohol has obvious societal and personal benefits alongside its various harms, so don't know why it would ever be banned."We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil
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Let's not even entertain the notion of equating vices like smoking\drinking with a fucking pandemic. It's egregious nonsense and should be treated as such.
In more cheerful news, Ireland absolutely stuffed South Africa in the cricket today. A notable scalp."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostLet's not even entertain the notion of equating vices like smoking\drinking with a fucking pandemic. It's egregious nonsense and should be treated as such.
In more cheerful news, Ireland absolutely stuffed South Africa in the cricket today. A notable scalp.
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Hence - false equivalence.
Jbravado is trying to set up a strawman argument for his unscientific, minority opinion. And, just to copper-fasten this stance, he's managed to tack on an anti-consumerist rant for good measure.
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
I'll break it down as simply as I can.
Covid is a transmissable and very nasty disease.
There is a vaccine.
Taking the vaccine makes me safe and the people around me safer.
Not taking the vaccine leaves me personally vulnerable to a horrible disease.
Not taking the vaccine makes me a risk to the other people I come into contact with.
People should be encouraged, with the best scientific advice and evidence, to get vaccinated.
People should not be forced to get vaccinated.
If you choose, against the best scientific advice, not to get vaccinated, then, in the interests of the greater good, if the government sets additional restrictions on you (travel, not being allowed into venues etc), then I think that is an entirely reasonable thing to do.
Literally happens every day. I changed my opinion on something pretty major a couple of hours ago once we went through the pros and cons of a particular issue.
Anyone who has a job in a collaborative professional environment will be well used to this.
That sounds like an arrogance all of its own.
So we essentially agree? People should not be FORCED to get vaccinated.
I think its perfectly reasonable, in truth, to say Ok only vaccinated indoors for meals. Get on with your life for those who want to feel outrageously aggrieved. Have a few cans and a takeaway. Get on with it.
If that extends to denying someone the opportunity to provide for their family, ie firing them, then yeah I think it at least extends to a grey area where we have to very much question what's Ok. The human condition has no bounds for contortion.
It's great you can have your mind changed. Full stop.
And finally, I dont think its arrogant to say ' I dont know ' about a lot of things. You do, not sure why, and if you would like to go into why I'd be happy to listen.
Wont be extending much more energy to this line of communication, and written word a shitty medium for emotive exchanges. Be well!
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Originally posted by Pat Mustard View PostIf RD or Iago got a cumpulsory purchase order on their homes, they wouldn't be objecting to An Bord Pleanála or geographical equivalent anyway. They would just get on with it. The greater good.
"We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil
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Originally posted by jbravado View Post
Lastly, Glynn, you dont need to speak slowly to me. Or down to me. I understand your position and the above perfectly well. It seems to be your knee jerk default reaction on here when holding an opposing view. You dont need to do it. You have a choice to sit with the urge to do it before that reactivity.
So we essentially agree? People should not be FORCED to get vaccinated.
I think its perfectly reasonable, in truth, to say Ok only vaccinated indoors for meals. Get on with your life for those who want to feel outrageously aggrieved. Have a few cans and a takeaway. Get on with it.
If that extends to denying someone the opportunity to provide for their family, ie firing them, then yeah I think it at least extends to a grey area where we have to very much question what's Ok. The human condition has no bounds for contortion.
It's great you can have your mind changed. Full stop.
And finally, I dont think its arrogant to say ' I dont know ' about a lot of things. You do, not sure why, and if you would like to go into why I'd be happy to listen.
Wont be extending much more energy to this line of communication, and written word a shitty medium for emotive exchanges. Be well!
They presumably trained / got educated / worked hard to get to be in a position that affords them an opportunity to provide for their family, and are now making a conscious informed decision which they understand means that that their qualifications / experience is to be rendered null and void. Choosing not to take the vaccine which is encouraged and offered freely by the HSE, a vaccine which has been determined as one of our only safe routes out of this pandemic has a consequence for that person. They have freedom of choice, not freedom from consequence.Last edited by Emmet; 13-07-21, 22:28.
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostAre ye all watching the glory that is Clarkson's Farm on Amazon Prime???
What a creation. I'd be of the firm view he's a gombeen of the highest order, but this show suits him down to the ground. A delight I tells you a delight.
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.
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Guy who created his account over on Boards over 12 years ago somehow manages to "get in" while it is in read only mode and make his first ever post....... about a Toyota Avensis bumper.
Currently on 804 Thanks for the post in what must be the message board equivalent of a protest vote.
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostAre ye all watching the glory that is Clarkson's Farm on Amazon Prime???
What a creation. I'd be of the firm view he's a gombeen of the highest order, but this show suits him down to the ground. A delight I tells you a delight.
People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
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I reckon most of us have beliefs about some things or doubts about things that pretty much everyone else seems to agree on or act as though they do. Maybe we should extend this over the next few weeks by having one of us each day express one of their "things" and get into dialogue about it.
I propose RDIII to kick it off. Happy to do one myself some day as I doubt some of the most fundamental things possible.
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I'd be very interested to hear some of the fundamental things you doubt? Time is a flat circle???? You dont have a head!??? Ha etc.
Hotspur, hit me up on PM. I'd be interested in getting another pint if your keen, eager to speak to you about some meditation type mumbo jumbo. Off to Mexicio in August.
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Originally posted by dinekes View PostI think the worst thing about getting older is the fear of being alone.
Thats all it is though, fear.
The great thing about being alive now and in the present is you can choose how you want your day to go.
*
Apropos nothing
It's not without its blind spots, but be writes beautifully. He speaks of the tyrnanny of Time, and how time, the man made construct we know is essentially illussionary. Past just smoke in the air. Future a figment. He ties in some of the breaking science re time also, not linear, retro causality which is hard to get your head around but science increasingly leans toward. His basic point is that in this very moment, there is rarely ever, arguably never, irrespective of whatever awful scenario may present anything that bad to worry about. Took me a long time to read but would recommend for sure.
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View PostI'm always amazed at the stock people put in their own opinion. I think deep down, most people think that they better understand just about everything, better than anyone else - which is quite remarkable if you think about it.
I could be wrong (not likely eh)
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Originally posted by Emmet View PostChoosing not to take the vaccine which is encouraged and offered freely by the HSE, a vaccine which has been determined as one of our only safe routes out of this pandemic has a consequence for that person. They have freedom of choice, not freedom from consequence.
I think jbravado actually acknowledged this too (even though it seems to be thing that set him off!):
Originally posted by jbravado View PostSo we essentially agree? People should not be FORCED to get vaccinated.
I think its perfectly reasonable, in truth, to say Ok only vaccinated indoors for meals. Get on with your life for those who want to feel outrageously aggrieved. Have a few cans and a takeaway. Get on with it."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Pat Mustard View Post
Thanks m8. How's the driving going?"We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View PostI'm always amazed at the stock people put in their own opinion. I think deep down, most people think that they better understand just about everything, better than anyone else - which is quite remarkable if you think about it.
Hence why I have great respect for genuine experts.
In no particular order, I know fuck all about:- art
- music
- science of all kinds
- everything else
I do have a lot of surface knowledge about a lot of things, which makes me a superb player to have on your Trival Pursuit team. Like knowing facts, dates etc - but I would never confuse that with deep subject matter expertise.
Anyone who follows my politics bets on here know I get them wrong all the time for example (although Joey B made up for all that )."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostI reckon most of us have beliefs about some things or doubts about things that pretty much everyone else seems to agree on or act as though they do. Maybe we should extend this over the next few weeks by having one of us each day express one of their "things" and get into dialogue about it.
I propose RDIII to kick it off. Happy to do one myself some day as I doubt some of the most fundamental things possible.
I would probably say something anodyne like 'Trump was actually quite a good president' (not that I believe this) and then you would retort with something that would literally blow our tiny little minds."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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The point is that we are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later, a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually on the battlefield.”
George Orwell quote
In other news got my 5g cert of compliance.
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Originally posted by Solksjaer! View PostThe point is that we are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later, a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually on the battlefield.”
As the hero of my own movie, I am naturally armed with the shield of righteousness and truth. As well as being dashingly handsome and debonair."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
A lot of this is simple psychology - we are all the heroes of our own movie after all.
As the hero of my own movie, I am naturally armed with the shield of righteousness and truth. As well as being dashingly handsome and debonair.
Has anyone seen the oat milk called 'minor character' - i wonder is it a play on that?"We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View PostI'm always amazed at the stock people put in their own opinion. I think deep down, most people think that they better understand just about everything, better than anyone else - which is quite remarkable if you think about it.
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Can I have a go of one hotspur?
All imho of course.
Ultra competitiveness, while lauded by society as a huge strength, is a character flaw and a weakness.
The example I always think of is Tiger Woods.
The success it brings, the lauded part, is a beneficial by product of what is fundamentally low self esteem and insecurity. A desire to prove yourself.
Conversely, people who aren't competitive or driven are viewed somewhat negatively, when in reality they're most likely content with who they are.
If happiness is life's goal, success means not being successful.
I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by jbravado View Post
Ehhhhh. Get what this was meant as. But guess what, we do just that. We do trust people to implement their own compass of decency and hygiene when serving and preparing food.
If we didnt it would look like, 24/7 in your face surveillance, somebmachine type device clasping them in place, spraying them with disinfectant every 10 minutes. Or you know. Injecting them with some toxin against their will through implicit coercion.
And maybe that's where we will end up. And IpB will be like yeah sure, greater good, got to keep everyone safe. Not a huge leap, just a pinch of imagination.
It’s hard to find concrete examples either way to be honest. On one hand I think if you’re a doctor and unvaccinated and you kill patients as a result of your actions that’s absolutely reckless. On the other hand if you’re entirely asymptomatic and couldn’t know if your infectious, well we don’t know yet whether being vaccinated stop infection spreading and not just impact on the vaccinated, so does it solve that. I think broadly it does, but not with a high degree of certainty.
I think you’ll find people are more critical on this than you seem you believe, just because people don’t post on it doesn’t mean they don’t think about it. I would have been pretty sceptical that a vaccine could have been developed so quickly but I’ve been convinced of the benefits of it for myself and the greater good. Others might not think so, but maybe to turn it around, you’re rewarding those who choose to vaccinate with extra freedoms rather than punishing those who don’t. If no one took the vaccine then indoor dining etc wouldn’t be open anyway.
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