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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
Well, I'm not entirely sure it's untrue Lloyd and I'd like to see data either way. I accept mine is anecdotal so not great and the Central Bank data doesn't just cut the way you've interpreted it. It more so backs up GL2ME's post."Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes
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Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post
I'll accept mine is partly anecdotal too, and partly based on my interpretation of the Central Bank figures. But if you want to read those figures and believe that the vast majority of FTBs are saving up to a year's gross income without any help, and it's all down to their singular sacrifice and perseverance fair enough. On an unrelated matter, I have some magic beans to sell you if you're interested.
On a serious note though, you picked the Dublin figures in your original example but they are the absolute high point on the scale, including huge numbers of foreign students and high earners in Google etc. They also account for only about 1 in every 6 new mortgages. If you look at non-Dublin lending (which still includes the major commuter towns) you're looking at roughly 50% of all new mortgages in 2019 and 75% of First Time Buyers (FTB).
Those figures show the average income is €68,454, the average size of the property is 50% larger than in Dublin at about 1,600sq.ft and the average deposit is just shy of €50k.
Now, I never said that people did it without help. I never even implied they could or should do it without help. I did point out that getting the deposit requires some element of personal choice and making decisions as to how one spends disposable income. The specific point I made was that anyone who suggested such a thing was met by an accusation of being mean-spirited or somehow pulling up the drawbridge behind them and damn the rest. Which, somewhat tellingly, is more or less precisely what you've done in response to that post.
You haven't really given your workings (as Gimmeabreak pointed out) and I'd be glad to hear how you get from the Central Bank figures for the most expensive part of the country to the end of centrism in Irish politics without you using the magic beans of the assumption you made that nobody can or is buying a house/apartment without inheritance or assistance.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Pat Mustard View PostHow does a car with evidence accidentally get burnt while in gardai possession in that Kevin Lunney case?
This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Ended up in emergency care friday night, got back from road trip on thursday afternoon, did a running session and then rugby thursday night in 33 degrees. felt fine, was supposed to mow the new pitch friday afternoon but it was too hot so just went home. My ass and hamstring starting pulsating and throbbing throughout the day. Didnt think too much of it assumed it was due to the driving and exercise, foam rolled it and was better. A friend came over for beer and food at 6.30, calf was tight then, went to asian food market and walking past the freezer section the cold immediately went into me, pain was excruciating, got back home, cooked steaks, sitting down for our man date, wife came home halfway through and i had pain in my leg, we all went outside, probably 30 degrees at this stage. calf got more and more sore, then i started getting warmer, wife went inside to clean up and my mate went and got her 10 minutes later, i was completely drenched in sweat, was laying on ground next to lounge chair and the ground had puddles of sweat on it.
Ended up with extreme dehydration and exhaustion, had 3 bags of fluids and some other stuff put into me , ultrasound done as worried about blood clot, the IV made me so cold, i had 4 heated blankets on and was still shivering uncontrollably, teeth were chattering.( cost $2190) Truly miserable experience, today was first day i can actually walk albeit with a limp, my leg had just stopped working or shooting pain like being stabbed in 50 different spots all through it if i put any weight on it, was using one of those little kid push bikes as a wheeling crutch and bed ridden until yesterday.
Never experienced anything like it before.
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Originally posted by Trippie View PostEnded up in emergency care friday night, got back from road trip on thursday afternoon, did a running session and then rugby thursday night in 33 degrees. felt fine, was supposed to mow the new pitch friday afternoon but it was too hot so just went home. My ass and hamstring starting pulsating and throbbing throughout the day. Didnt think too much of it assumed it was due to the driving and exercise, foam rolled it and was better. A friend came over for beer and food at 6.30, calf was tight then, went to asian food market and walking past the freezer section the cold immediately went into me, pain was excruciating, got back home, cooked steaks, sitting down for our man date, wife came home halfway through and i had pain in my leg, we all went outside, probably 30 degrees at this stage. calf got more and more sore, then i started getting warmer, wife went inside to clean up and my mate went and got her 10 minutes later, i was completely drenched in sweat, was laying on ground next to lounge chair and the ground had puddles of sweat on it.
Ended up with extreme dehydration and exhaustion, had 3 bags of fluids and some other stuff put into me , ultrasound done as worried about blood clot, the IV made me so cold, i had 4 heated blankets on and was still shivering uncontrollably, teeth were chattering.( cost $2190) Truly miserable experience, today was first day i can actually walk albeit with a limp, my leg had just stopped working or shooting pain like being stabbed in 50 different spots all through it if i put any weight on it, was using one of those little kid push bikes as a wheeling crutch and bed ridden until yesterday.
Never experienced anything like it before.
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Originally posted by Solksjaer! View Post
Heat stroke ? Friend in the US got that . Was lucky according to docs . He was drunk and at a Yankees game . BOOM
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
We do: pension contributions, which the government effectively gives you a 40% bonus on
And you keep V in robot lawnmowers and handmade leather gloves.
Robot lawnmower is an investment. Far lower running costs versus a ride on and a much better job.
Had an interview on Monday. Might end up a banker yet. Spent half the interview telling them how shit they were. Be interesting to see if they go for that approach...
As for the property chat, the vast majority in Ireland are incredibly fortunate on a relative basis. There’s no votes in telling people to be grateful however. So it comes down to perception not facts after that.‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan
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Originally posted by Kayroo View PostOn a serious note though, you picked the Dublin figures in your original example but they are the absolute high point on the scale, including huge numbers of foreign students and high earners in Google etc. They also account for only about 1 in every 6 new mortgages. If you look at non-Dublin lending (which still includes the major commuter towns) you're looking at roughly 50% of all new mortgages in 2019 and 75% of First Time Buyers (FTB).
Those figures show the average income is €68,454, the average size of the property is 50% larger than in Dublin at about 1,600sq.ft and the average deposit is just shy of €50k.
Originally posted by Kayroo View PostNow, I never said that people did it without help. I never even implied they could or should do it without help. I did point out that getting the deposit requires some element of personal choice and making decisions as to how one spends disposable income. The specific point I made was that anyone who suggested such a thing was met by an accusation of being mean-spirited or somehow pulling up the drawbridge behind them and damn the rest. Which, somewhat tellingly, is more or less precisely what you've done in response to that post.
I've not accused anyone of being mean spirited. I just think the aul trope of 'they'd all have a house if they didn't eat eggs and avocados' is yawn worthy. The 'short term / long term' choices Hitch hint at in Ireland at present are more along the lines of whether people choose to live full lives as independent adults or move home with parents for an extended period (which isn't possible for all, even if Leo thinks it is).
If your household pulls in 100k a year you're in the top 14% of incomes in the state. I struggle with that. It doesn't feel real that we're in the upper percentile the data says we are. Because we're surrounded by circles of friends in similar situations. Seems to me the challenge with a lot of this is stepping outside our own bubbles and anecdotal experiences. Which may be never harder if you own a house you worked hard for and you're listening to a party topping the poll talking about a housing crisis. May be more comfortable for some to go full Eagle Eye on the topic, whatever you're having yourself.
Originally posted by Kayroo View PostYou haven't really given your workings (as Gimmeabreak pointed out) and I'd be glad to hear how you get from the Central Bank figures for the most expensive part of the country to the end of centrism in Irish politics without you using the magic beans of the assumption you made that nobody can or is buying a house/apartment without inheritance or assistance.Last edited by LuckyLloyd; 10-06-20, 19:51."Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes
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Originally posted by Kayroo View Post
Ah, so you're in charge of Sinn Fein's financial policies. Another mystery solved.
On a serious note though, you picked the Dublin figures in your original example but they are the absolute high point on the scale, including huge numbers of foreign students and high earners in Google etc. They also account for only about 1 in every 6 new mortgages. If you look at non-Dublin lending (which still includes the major commuter towns) you're looking at roughly 50% of all new mortgages in 2019 and 75% of First Time Buyers (FTB).
Those figures show the average income is €68,454, the average size of the property is 50% larger than in Dublin at about 1,600sq.ft and the average deposit is just shy of €50k.
Now, I never said that people did it without help. I never even implied they could or should do it without help. I did point out that getting the deposit requires some element of personal choice and making decisions as to how one spends disposable income. The specific point I made was that anyone who suggested such a thing was met by an accusation of being mean-spirited or somehow pulling up the drawbridge behind them and damn the rest. Which, somewhat tellingly, is more or less precisely what you've done in response to that post.
You haven't really given your workings (as Gimmeabreak pointed out) and I'd be glad to hear how you get from the Central Bank figures for the most expensive part of the country to the end of centrism in Irish politics without you using the magic beans of the assumption you made that nobody can or is buying a house/apartment without inheritance or assistance.
Remember this beauty: https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-36063121.htmlhttps://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-36063121.html
Whatever about the assertion that Millennials want to have their cake and eat it, this travesty is evidence, that there is a widely held belief that, no amount of asceticism is good enough for them.
Untrammeled access to decent accommodation, for working people, should be a fundamental of any proper functioning economy and society. The suggestion than the problem is "on" Tars generation is odious.Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View PostI don't have to give anyone my workings because I don't really care if you agree with me or not. What seems obvious to me doesn't to you and that's fine We're rerunning the political conversation from January where one side is representing people who say there's a problem and the other are representing people who are saying there isn't. It would seem to me that it would be in the political interest of the government once formed to accept that there's a problem and move the conversation towards solutions and their associated trade offs as soon as possible. Particularly when a recession may take away some of the problem and unease about the problem, so it's political capital gained for free. But that's their prerogative. I'm not selling anything here, people bought their political tickets a long time ago on here and that's okay.
'Mental Toughness is doing the right thing for the team when it's not the best thing for you' - Bill Belichick
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All this talk about property and inherited wealth brings into focus something which is playing on my mind lately and some generalised opinions from you guys might be helpful.
My wife passed away 12 years ago and in parallel with sorting out the estate I decided to establish a trust in the name of my then 8 year old daughter in case something happened to me.
In simplistic terms it allows for her to draw down the equivalent to the average industrial wage plus certain other amounts relating directly to medical needs, educational costs and maintenance of the family home for her personal use. All of these payments were to be triggered in the event of my incapacitation or upon her 21st birthday with the underlying assets being withheld from her control until her 35th birthday. Her 21st birthday is approaching.
She has just completed her degree and is shortly embarking on a masters in Boston which will see her essentially be living independently and beyond my oversight for the next 18 months. I trust her completely and frankly am amazed how well balanced and sensible she is considering my incompetence at raising a daughter alone. Never the less I’m concerned that such an inexperienced young adult will make financial mistakes and not fully appreciate that her relative prosperity does not mean she is immune to spending too much.
My question is this, do I step back and allow mistakes to happen on the basis that the lessons will be well learnt and the principle assets are ring fenced or do I keep a tight rein and insist she continues to live the traditional frugal lifestyle of a student?
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I think you just remind her that living frugally until.yiu start earning is the most astute approach. Advise her while reminding her that it's ultimately her decision. And always be supportive which I'm sure you are.'Mental Toughness is doing the right thing for the team when it's not the best thing for you' - Bill Belichick
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Originally posted by V for Vendetta View Post
Robot lawnmower is an investment. Far lower running costs versus a ride on and a much better job.
Saw an oul lad on one a few weeks ago and was mad jeaulous.I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by V for Vendetta View Post
Robot lawnmower is an investment. Far lower running costs versus a ride on and a much better job.
Saw an oul lad on one a few weeks ago and was mad jealous.Last edited by Lazare; 11-06-20, 08:04.I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by Wombatman View Post
Untrammeled access to decent accommodation, for working people, should be a fundamental of any proper functioning economy and society. The suggestion than the problem is "on" Tars generation is odious.
Does it have to be in a "good area", does it have to be a house or would an apartment do? Does it have to have en-suites or is a shared bathroom ok?
Genuine Q's because i'm not sure the answer wouldn't be "no" for most people.
Also for those of you who are calling for more social housing what I can't seem to get my head around is that the standard of house there should be better than those privately owned, otherwise I see an obvious moral hazard that you're better off waiting/stalling to get one for free. FWIW both of my parent grew up in tiny council houses and they would agree, because it meant they were rewarded for their hard work. The other thing that amazes them is that the upkeep of their house was impeccable and you couldn't so much as paint your front door a different colour without permission from the council but nowadays you've got council houses being destroyed (eye-witnessed on number of occasions) with no repercussions. Do you think untrammeled access should be given to people who've wrecked a previous house?
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Originally posted by Lazare View Post
Ah running costs me bollix V, what I wouldn't give for the opportunity to spend 2 hours bumbling around on a ride on mower with ear muffs on. Headspace bliss.
Saw an oul lad on one a few weeks ago and was mad jeaulous.‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan
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My Grandad gave me good advice when i started drinking. Slip a single £10/£20 into one of your pockets when at the toilet, buy your round from that. Never take out the wallet or the big wad of notes.
"Big Note" was actually a derogatory term locally.Low fee Euro/UK money transfer, 1st transfer free through my referral
https://transferwise.com/u/bfa0e
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Originally posted by Micknail View PostOne for Raoul,
Name LBJs favorite car.SPOILERan amphibious car and would scare the shit out of his passengers by driving into the water?"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post
Not sure what your point is here really? An average deposit for Dublin FTBs is ~119% of average household income whereas it's ~109% for non Dublin FTBs. There's a difference alright, but it's not as significant as you might think. Yes, there are differences in every respect between Dublin and outside Dublin, it all scales down but the ratio of average income to average deposit outside Dublin is still very high.
Somebody with no income is not in a position to purchase property, so there's little point to including that in a assessment of the viability of property ownership.
But the biggest issue with this line of reasoning, for me, is that it presents the deposit as the a requirement, when in reality it's a product of applicants' desire.
The average applicant having a 79k deposit, is not the same as the average applicant needing 79k. The 25th percentile probably had a 60k deposit. The deposit people had, is not the same as the deposit they need to get on the market. It's far more likely that people aim as high as they can within their means.
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Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View PostIf your household pulls in 100k a year you're in the top 14% of incomes in the state. I struggle with that. It doesn't feel real that we're in the upper percentile the data says we are. Because we're surrounded by circles of friends in similar situations.
I can't say this often enough; the top 5% of earners pay over 55% of all income taxes. The bottom 50% pay fuck all.
If you want to fund big programs, maybe that curve should be evened-up?"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post
Your whole post .
I never said there wasn’t a housing crisis. Only an idiot would say that. You appear to be ascribing an argument to me that I am not making and I don’t know why.
The reasons I asked for your workings was that your argument appears to have a *scene missing* element to it. I honestly want to know how you arrived there and you fobbed me off by saying you don’t care if I agree with you. That’s fine but be mindful that it makes you the dismissive one, not me.
I agree that the avocado argument is nonsense. But that’s not the argument I am making. I am saying it’s hard to have it all. To live a life that involves a nice car, holiday abroad, eating out in restaurants regularly, plenty of trips to the theatre and cinema etc is absolutely fine. But that involves a choice about allocation of resources. It’s a legitimate and perfectly reasonable choice. My argument was with those who want that AND think that in spite of that choice they should also be able to purchase their own home (an exceptional expenditure in almost everyone’s life) without any change in their lifestyle. I am not saying housing shouldn’t be affordable, and at the moment it’s really pushing the boundaries of that concept, but even if housing prices dropped to more reasonable levels, that would still involve personal choices being made as to the allocation of income. But whenever anyone makes that argument they are pilloried for it. And I do not understand why when it is demonstrably true.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Just to be fair Lloyd is talking about First time buyers with an average job being priced out. That's you single income teacher, nurse or garda.
I dont think its fair to lump in Paddy on the dole looking for a garden as part of the same conversation. Those people do exist but in much smaller numbers than people think. I dont think Lloyd has ever said lets reward people who game the social welfare system at any stage.
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Guest
Incredibly irresponsible journalism from the Irish times
country folk need to fight back on this, I’m thinking of setting up an organisation to drive any dubs who move into my area out, anyone in any other counties want to set up a chapter?
activism Might have to go as far as sabotaging broadband cables so these people can’t work from home
likes of Kerry, Clare, Connemara will be destroyed if this picks up pace
Tired of the rat race? Here’s why it could be time to move to the country
via The Irish Times
https://www.Irish times.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/tired-of-the-rat-race-here-s-why-it-could-be-time-to-move-to-the-country-1.4274433
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Originally posted by PSV58 View PostIncredibly irresponsible journalism from the Irish times
country folk need to fight back on this, I’m thinking of setting up an organisation to drive any dubs who move into my area out, anyone in any other counties want to set up a chapter?
activism Might have to go as far as sabotaging broadband cables so these people can’t work from home
likes of Kerry, Clare, Connemara will be destroyed if this picks up pace
Tired of the rat race? Here’s why it could be time to move to the country
via The Irish Times
https://www.Irish times.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/tired-of-the-rat-race-here-s-why-it-could-be-time-to-move-to-the-country-1.4274433
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Only when you remind them of the five in a row
I don't really follow it but it looks to me that Dublin could make that ten in a row. Kinda reminds me of China and table tennis. The population gap is so large they should win every year shouldn't they?
'Mental Toughness is doing the right thing for the team when it's not the best thing for you' - Bill Belichick
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Originally posted by RichieM View PostJust to be fair Lloyd is talking about First time buyers with an average job being priced out. That's you single income teacher, nurse or garda.
I dont think its fair to lump in Paddy on the dole looking for a garden as part of the same conversation. Those people do exist but in much smaller numbers than people think. I dont think Lloyd has ever said lets reward people who game the social welfare system at any stage.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by eagle eye View PostI wouldn't have pegged you as a GAA fan.
I don't really follow it but it looks to me that Dublin could make that ten in a row. Kinda reminds me of China and table tennis. The population gap is so large they should win every year shouldn't they?"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by PSV58 View PostIncredibly irresponsible journalism from the Irish times
country folk need to fight back on this, I’m thinking of setting up an organisation to drive any dubs who move into my area out, anyone in any other counties want to set up a chapter?
activism Might have to go as far as sabotaging broadband cables so these people can’t work from home
likes of Kerry, Clare, Connemara will be destroyed if this picks up pace
Tired of the rat race? Here’s why it could be time to move to the country
via The Irish Times
https://www.Irish times.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/tired-of-the-rat-race-here-s-why-it-could-be-time-to-move-to-the-country-1.4274433
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Originally posted by Solksjaer! View PostI’m planning to head down to Dublin 293 in Sept and hope to run the Ronnie Drew Beach 5k (formerly known as Inch Beach) . It looks cool. Any other Dubs (or extended Dubs) ran this 5k. How many runner does it normally get. Mainly tourists?
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Originally posted by Keane View Post
I did it over Christmas actually. There were about 50 doing it that day - it was the 28th - a fairly fine day but very windy. It's a lovely beach in fairness but I'm not mad about the straight out and back kind of course. The one around the Town Park in Tralee is very nice actually if are around to try two. We did that one Christmas morning and there was a great buzz, there was nearly 300 doing it.
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
shouldn't they have won every year for the last hundred in that case?
'Mental Toughness is doing the right thing for the team when it's not the best thing for you' - Bill Belichick
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I was offered 1500 punts as a signing on fee for a Dublin GAA Club in the 90's with a place in UCD organised to go along with it. Was average enough midfielder in a very low tier club at the timeLow fee Euro/UK money transfer, 1st transfer free through my referral
https://transferwise.com/u/bfa0e
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Originally posted by eagle eye View PostWell I think they should have won most of them. Obviously the coaching was lolbad and from what I've been told there were not many clubs in Dublin up until about thirty or forty years ago. The clubs were recruiting county footballers from every other county in the country. Maybe that helped them improve over time, I don't know but clearly now that they have pretty much a professional setup and a much bigger pool to pick from and more money they should be dominating every year. I don't think you need a great coach, just a decent standard one to keep winning. I'm not for one second saying that Jim Gavin, I think that's his name, is not a great coach just that there is such a gap in nearly everything that they should keep winning even with just a good coach.
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Originally posted by Solksjaer! View Post
Funny they are pushed so close every time . Maybe that's a failure on the Dubs part. All these poor badly funded counties like Mayo and Kerry only losing by the bare amount. Sure tis a testament to those country boys big hearts so it is.
A bit like the rugby I think it's a case where we should have five teams. Dublin and then the four provinces. GAA being like that would probably give the other provinces a chance of winning, given that the Dubs are pretty much a fully professional outfit at this stage.
'Mental Toughness is doing the right thing for the team when it's not the best thing for you' - Bill Belichick
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