Bad Beat/Moaning/Venting - pray for Lazare

[ArmaniJeans]

English 4th spot likely to survive the end-of-season recalc I reckon, mainly because of Italian failings with Lazio losing in the CL playoff and Roma looking poor leaving Juventus battling on their own.

Would be helpful to the coefficient if Liverpool and Tottenham actually made a decent effort in the Europa, kinda ironic that teams who are supposedly chasing 4th make such little annual effort to maintain the importance of 4th.

[Flushdraw]

One lad just seemed to want the 1mil? Did he say no to 984k and ended up getting his million?

Yep, he got the mil. And the chippy got his 60k bump too!

[cardshark202]

Why am I even debating this shite. I couldn't give a shit tbh. As a united fan it would be better to keep 4 spots obviously. It's nothing we can control anyway so, meh.

Apology accepted

[eamonhonda]

So they should just keep the 4th spot for the sake of it even though all the English teams have had shocking results so far and we're only on gameweek 2?

What? Youre not getting me at all. What do you mean keep the 4th spot for the sake of it? You keep the fouth spot so the league has more teams competing in club footballs biggest tournament gaining experience against the best in the world and bringing that expierience back to the league.

All the teams who comptete for top 4 positons are trying as hard as they can to get 1st so they arent gonna try harder now that there's less spots. You think any team gives 90% now and aims for 4th but will give 100% because theres only 3? The general standard of the league will drop if they lose a place. Didnt Italy lose a spot a few years ago? What youre saying will imrpove the league will actually only create a bit of excitement towards the end as there will be more of a battle, might make for a few more exciting games, but its not going to improve the league, imo.

[Lord Sir Banter]

honda rustled

[CHDad]

Ugh, sounds messy. Think I'll just keep him on ignore instead.

Everyone will be happy to know that we have made up and are now back together. The sex is fantastic.

[mdoug]

Lolchelsea. If they didn't have such an easy group they might actually fail to qualify from it! They're in like 14th in the league with 8pts from 7 games. That's class.

[CHDad]

That's why I now support Manchester. Usually one of them wins so It's handy. Up the blue and red of Manc.

[Lord Sir Banter]

Think I got hornswaggled out of the prize of a book I didn't want by an ipb'er earlier at the pre-movie drinks blackjack game

wp

[mdoug]

If I bought a united and city jersey and cut them in half and stitched it back into the one jersey would you walk around Manchester some weekend? Be a bit of banter

[CHDad]

If I bought a united and city jersey and cut them in half and stitched it back into the one jersey would you walk around Manchester some weekend? Be a bit of banter

I'd walk up and down The Shankill Road in Belfast with a Celtic jersey on and I hate Celtic and Rangers m8.

Money has to be right though. My idiocy isn't free.

[Lord Sir Banter]

doug can stitch? probably a necessary skill for you at this stage

[mdoug]

Nah but I could learn super easy for sure. Have a very vague memory of having to do it in primary school and being woeful at it though

[mdoug]

Plus you can't stitch glass m8.

[Raoul Duke III]

Why do the Premiership clubs out-spend everyone else massively yet are still shite in Europe?

Is it just that 'the English way' (even though the players are 90% non-English) is to play at a million miles an hour and thus more technical teams easily beat them?

Someone explain plz

[careca]

I was very unlucky last night. I did a double Ars and Che to win. If they both had scored another 2 goals I would have collected. So close.

[careca]

Why do the Premiership clubs out-spend everyone else massively yet are still shite in Europe?

Is it just that 'the English way' (even though the players are 90% non-English) is to play at a million miles an hour and thus more technical teams easily beat them?

Someone explain plz

I think it can be summed up by how teams define 'keeping the ball'. English teams will keep the ball by rolling it across the back four. The likes of Barca, Real, Bayern, etc will keep it all over the field, not afraid to trust players around the middle of the park etc.

[Emmet]

Another behemoth from D'Arcy on the failings of Slammin' Sam

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/gordon-d-arcy-sam-burgess-is-the-blunder-that-could-bury-england-1.2371821

ouch

By then the Burgess experiment had been abandoned because the England coaching team accepted, long after everyone else, that he had no idea what was happening around him.

[eoghan104]

Think I got hornswaggled out of the prize of a book I didn't want by an ipb'er earlier at the pre-movie drinks blackjack game

wp

Yep that was me! In fairness it was all the dealer's doing and you were mean to me playing werewolf so I don't feel bad!

Shite looking book anyway.

[mocata]

I'd walk up and down The Shankill Road in Belfast with a Celtic jersey on and I hate Celtic and Rangers m8.

Money has to be right though. My idiocy isn't free.

A reporter did this a few years ago, wandered around the Shankill in a Celtic jersey then round the Falls road in a Rangers top. Amount of fucks given was close to zero, a few mutterings of "wanker" was as hairy as things got

[V for Vendetta]

Another behemoth from D'Arcy on the failings of Slammin' Sam

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/gordon-d-arcy-sam-burgess-is-the-blunder-that-could-bury-england-1.2371821

ouch

Brilliant.

He's Liam Toland 2.0. Funnier, more understandable and even more cutting. Wasted on the Irish Times tbh. He needs to be on a late night rugby review show. Maybe BTsport will sign him up.

[Strewelpeter]

Well played to some of them

Yeah but fuck it, it's the score of a lifetime. You could wrap yourself up in knots making sure no-one takes advantage of you in the deal but live to regret it. I bet Beertjes was happy with his 800k two hands after the deal with the AQ AK cooler

One lad just seemed to want the 1mil? Did he say no to 984k and ended up getting his million?

The lad who wanted a million turned down an ICM deal at a moment that looked right for giving him I think it was 1.5 instead arguing for a chip chop worth just a bit more and a chance to get more than first prize.
Coen had been calling non stop for a deal from the start and would have given up far more if asked. Which makes Beer look even more LOLbad - he was never asked to give up anything and could easily have got the deal like 1.2M 1M 1M 925K instead he just randomly throws 50K onto the table

[shrapnel]

Brilliant.

He's Liam Toland 2.0. Funnier, more understandable and even more cutting. Wasted on the Irish Times tbh. He needs to be on a late night rugby review show. Maybe BTsport will sign him up.

unlikely he talks as well as someone else writes for him

Great analysis though. love it!

[Strewelpeter]

Another behemoth from D'Arcy on the failings of Slammin' Sam

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/gordon-d-arcy-sam-burgess-is-the-blunder-that-could-bury-england-1.2371821

ouch

\

First thing they should, but won’t, do is push someone down a stairs and get Steffon Armitage over from France

[Jibzzzz]

The lad who wanted a million turned down an ICM deal at a moment that looked right for giving him I think it was 1.5 instead arguing for a chip chop worth just a bit more and a chance to get more than first prize.
Coen had been calling non stop for a deal from the start and would have given up far more if asked. Which makes Beer look even more LOLbad - he was never asked to give up anything and could easily have got the deal like 1.2M 1M 1M 925K instead he just randomly throws 50K onto the table

Such a strange deal discussion.

Noel20 seemed happy until AlwaysNidCe asked for the million, so Noel decided to ask for 1.2m. Beer decided to give up 50k without discussion and Coenaldinho was happy to give away 27k which gave Noel an extra 23k without even asking.

Noel20 did very well out of it.

Fairplay to Coenaldinho for going on to ship for a total of 1.3m considering he was 8/9 starting and wanted a deal from the get go.

Also big WP to downtown on his score.

[Strewelpeter]

Brilliant.

He's Liam Toland 2.0. Funnier, more understandable and even more cutting. Wasted on the Irish Times tbh. He needs to be on a late night rugby review show. Maybe BTsport will sign him up.

I can't imagine him getting the bandwidth for that kind of analysis even on a dedicated rugby channel
Has he taken a coaching position anywhere yet?

[Emmet]

\

Can't do it.

IMO, England are absolutely right not to call up Armitage. The policy makes perfect sense.

It's unfortunate that it deprives them of absolute and (perhaps) necessary talent, but that's a cost that they have chosen to accept instead of the undermining and undercutting of their own professional leagues and paths to professionalism.

Hi.

Me and maybe 75pc of the people I've talked to on the subject.

There's two elements to this.

The first "Would Steflon make a big difference to England right now" and I think that's a bigger question than a lot of people assume.

He hasn't trained with England at all. He has no cohesion with the players. He has no recent experience of the international game, which is frequently played a lot faster than club rugby, and I doubt he's properly conditioned for such a pace.

He is a very talented player and I wish he had been available to England for the last four years - but he hasn't, and expecting one player parachuted in at the last moment to make the difference is a pretty huge ask. Not to mention it would be an almighty kick in the teeth for the guys in the squad: "Hi, we think you're not good enough, so we're breaking the rules you have followed to your own financial cost". I know they're big boys, I know they're pros and they badly want to win the next game - that is still going to poison the atmosphere.

I have no problems with him not being there to be honest.

As for "Should England be picking players based in France" - categorically no. If England want a strong league, then we have to keep our best players in England, and this is one of our very few sources of leverage. It's also an important part of keeping relations with PRL good.

Tough corner, but that's the game.

[Strewelpeter]

Can't do it.

Tough corner, but that's the game.

The point yer man there makes about him not having trained with England is a theme Darcy keeps mentioning in the difficulty of adapting to different playmakers.
Obviously that crucial in making a great team. However I think sometimes with England specifically they work better when circumstances like injury pick the team for them. I think its because they have such a deep player pool and that all the political bollocks pushes selection in odd directions.
Anyway thats no use to them in the spot they are in now, they have no choice but to to figure out how to get it together and play as a team with the squad they have in the next few days or they are going out.

[ArmaniJeans]

I think its a sign of weakness for any manager if he agrees to not pick certain players because of the wishes of administrators. 'I'm the man in charge, I'll pick who I fucking want' should be the desired attitude.

To an extent its similar to the way the FA chose a compliant lackey in Hodgson who agreed not to take John Terry to Poland/Ukraine when Capello was insisting on it (and indeed any decent manager worth his salt would have selected Terry). Players look and see a weak stooge.

[AndyFatBastard]

Why do the Premiership clubs out-spend everyone else massively yet are still shite in Europe?

SPOILER

They don't actually outspend everyone. Real Madrid and Barcelona are financial beasts.

SPOILER

They're not actually shite in Europe. English clubs have consistently reached the latter stages of the competition for ~17 years now. Typically if they get eliminated it is by one of the other big teams. Two clubs both unexpectedly lost their matches in one night so everyone is massively over-reacting.

[RichieM]

Can't do it.

Tough corner, but that's the game.

Tough corner they painted themselves into you mean.

Lets face it Saracens are hardly sparing the pennies so complaining about French teams wages is a bit rich when Saracens get fined for blowing the wage cap, laugh, pay the fine and go further over.

If English clubs want a stronger league that challenges more for European cups than they need to get rid of the LV cup or reduce the number of teams in there league again to maybe 10.

It is either this or put a maximum number of games in place for players to play per season. This will mean that they will be forced to rotate squads, develop other players and stop end season fatigue and shortening players careers.

I cant see an English team winning the European cup anytime soon tbh. There players are always carrying knocks come the end of the season. Players who want to win at that level will leave.

The bigger question is after making him out to be the most unpatriotic, selfish and greedy player in English history would Armitage actually take the call up. He must hate Lancaster for dragging him through the press and heaping everything on him.

Either way will be nice to use him as a scape goat either way to cover up poor management and terrible onfield performances. Wales have clear areas to target when they have a fully functional back 3 due to how there defensive line comes up. With the injuries they had these defensive problems were even more prominent.

England chose to run straight at the biggest guys on the pitch time and again. If that was the plan and they were going to stick with it unless they were going to use He-man and Superman to attack the 12&13 channel they were going nowhere.

Lancaster was brilliant to bring England to the point they were 12/18 months ago by instilling some discipline, team mentality and turning them into a professional modern side not a pack of Schoolboys on tour. He is not they guy to take them to the next step tactically, able to out think the opposition or add that extra step up required in Test rugby.

Love Darcy's breakdown of the individual moves. Really great analysis.

[Guest]

Another behemoth from D'Arcy on the failings of Slammin' Sam

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/gordon-d-arcy-sam-burgess-is-the-blunder-that-could-bury-england-1.2371821

ouch

Great to see a player giving real insight and honesty. Where will England win ball on the deck bully vunipola injured no natural open side. Hooper and Pocock should start for oz will snaffle loads of ball.

[V for Vendetta]

I can't imagine him getting the bandwidth for that kind of analysis even on a dedicated rugby channel
Has he taken a coaching position anywhere yet?

The BT sport analysis on their European cup coverage gets very detailed at times. He's still technically a Leinster player on standby for the RWC as far as I know. I'm sure he'll pick up a backs/defensive coaching position if he fancies it.

[RichieM]

The BT sport analysis on their European cup coverage gets very detailed at times. He's still technically a Leinster player on standby for the RWC as far as I know. I'm sure he'll pick up a backs/defensive coaching position if he fancies it.

I would presume he will part of Leo Cullens back room in some capacity but could easily go to the Leinster academy or France if they want him to be a bit more experienced since Leo is a new start.

Was kinda surprised Drico didnt want to go into coaching but perhaps the misses prefers him to be in the media instead. Still time for that I guess.

[Lord Sir Banter]

Great chat out of Ronnie Pickering

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3251966/I-m-Ronnie-Pickering-Driver-embarrasses-angry-know-road-rage-rant-moped-rider.html

[GingerMilla]

Why do the Premiership clubs out-spend everyone else massively yet are still shite in Europe?

Is it just that 'the English way' (even though the players are 90% non-English) is to play at a million miles an hour and thus more technical teams easily beat them?

Someone explain plz

They prioritise their own domestic league which is far tougher to win than that of their German, Italian or Greek counterparts.

To take Arsenal as a typical example since they flatter to deceive more than any of the other top premiership sides. Last night they played against the Greek champions, having played Leicester away on Saturday and with a massive game on the horizon next Sunday against United. That's three games in eight days for a core group of players and they definitely played within themselves last night, lacking their usual high tempo. Furthermore they were playing against a fresher side who probably saw the game as a cup final.

[The Situation]

Why do the Premiership clubs out-spend everyone else massively yet are still shite in Europe?

Is it just that 'the English way' (even though the players are 90% non-English) is to play at a million miles an hour and thus more technical teams easily beat them?

Someone explain plz

Tough one to explain, they're definitely hugely underperforming at the moment considering the money spent/talent on show. Wouldn't be a stylistic problem imo, there's been periods of massive dominance from English sides in the CL era playing the million miles an hour brand. I'd call it more an attitude problem, which could be partially caused by lack of British players in the sides now. If you look at the successful English sides in this competition they all had a really strong British/Irish core who it seemed like it meant a lot more to them than the foreign players in the sides. The likes of Terry and Lampard and Cole at Chelsea, Gerrard and Carragher at Liverpool, United had Keane, Giggs, Neville Scholes, all players who set a massive standard of commitment and expected it of others in the side.

You look at City or Arsenal play in Europe and there's a distinct weak underbelly and lack of character feel about them, if you're not fully committed in this competition you're going to be exposed now matter how talented the individuals in the sides are.

[dobby]

SPOILER

They don't actually outspend everyone. Real Madrid and Barcelona are financial beasts.

SPOILER

They're not actually shite in Europe. English clubs have consistently reached the latter stages of the competition for ~17 years now. Typically if they get eliminated it is by one of the other big teams. Two clubs both unexpectedly lost their matches in one night so everyone is massively over-reacting.

United, Arsenal and city all lost in game week 1. To PSV, Zagreb and Juve respectively. City should win away in Germany tonight and United should win at home but just cos they should doesn't mean they will.

[The Situation]

They prioritise their own domestic league which is far tougher to win than that of their German, Italian or Greek counterparts.

To take Arsenal as a typical example since they flatter to deceive more than any of the other top premiership sides. Last night they played against the Greek champions, having played Leicester away on Saturday and with a massive game on the horizon next Sunday against United. That's three games in eight days for a core group of players and they definitely played within themselves last night, lacking their usual high tempo. Furthermore they were playing against a fresher side who probably saw the game as a cup final.

This is utter bollox.

[Guest]

Tough one to explain, they're definitely hugely underperforming at the moment considering the money spent/talent on show. Wouldn't be a stylistic problem imo, there's been periods of massive dominance from English sides in the CL era playing the million miles an hour brand. I'd call it more an attitude problem, which could be partially caused by lack of British players in the sides now. If you look at the successful English sides in this competition they all had a really strong British/Irish core who it seemed like it meant a lot more to them than the foreign players in the sides. The likes of Terry and Lampard and Cole at Chelsea, Gerrard and Carragher at Liverpool, United had Keane, Giggs, Neville Scholes, all players who set a massive standard of commitment and expected it of others in the side.

You look at City or Arsenal play in Europe and there's a distinct weak underbelly and lack of character feel about them, if you're not fully committed in this competition you're going to be exposed now matter how talented the individuals in the sides are.

It must be hards to build team cohesion and spirit these days,teams are chock full of mercenaries who live in an utter bubble. How much does winning and losing matter to you when your in your early twenties getting silly money thrown at you every week. I don't remember teams in the top 3-4 regularly shipping 3 or 4 goal defeats back in the day like all the top teams have in recent years

[V for Vendetta]

I would presume he will part of Leo Cullens back room in some capacity but could easily go to the Leinster academy or France if they want him to be a bit more experienced since Leo is a new start.

Was kinda surprised Drico didnt want to go into coaching but perhaps the misses prefers him to be in the media instead. Still time for that I guess.

Ah I think a break is a good idea myself. No way Drico earns enough coaching to justify turning his back on the media stuff.

[The Situation]

It must be hards to build team cohesion and spirit these days,teams are chock full of mercenaries who live in an utter bubble. How much does winning and losing matter to you when your in your early twenties getting silly money thrown at you every week. I don't remember teams in the top 3-4 regularly shipping 3 or 4 goal defeats back in the day like all the top teams have in recent years

Yeah there's undoubtedly less fucks given by players nowadays. A team like Atletico Madrid, who fight tooth and nail for everything are a big exception these days when it should really be the bare minimum expected from professionals on the sort of silly money they pull in.

[RichieM]

Ah I think a break is a good idea myself. No way Drico earns enough coaching to justify turning his back on the media stuff.

Yeah I am sure he wont earn enough but he could go down the O'Shea route of doing both.

[Opr]

The very best players gravitate towards the top two in Spain. In many ways you could say the premier league is somewhat of a feeder league for the real top players in England. Alonso, Mascherano, Bale, Suarez, Ronaldo etc. Even the clubs that manage to hang onto the best players like Chelsea/City are buying at a level below those type of players. That has been somewhat reversed by City in recent times. It would be interesting to see what would happen if the TV money in Spain was fairly distributed as it would surely reverse that trend. It isn't really an excuse for the poor early showing from the English sides this year but they are always going to be playing catch up to the elite sides outside of England in the current situation. You only need to look at Liverpool with/without Suarez to see the change in quality that one of those players brings to a side.

Opr

[Emmet]

Ah I think a break is a good idea myself. No way Drico earns enough coaching to justify turning his back on the media stuff.

D'Arcy owns the Bank and the Exchequer with a couple of the other Leinster lads. I wouldn't be surprised to see him disappear quietly from the public eye just like Malcolm O'Kelly did.

[ArmaniJeans]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the TV money in Spain was fairly distributed as it would surely reverse that trend. Opr

Out of interest what is unfair about the Spanish tv money distribution, seems fair to me that teams can negotiate their own deals and therefore get paid in line with the amount of people who want to watch their games.

If the EPL method of sharing TV money is so much better then why isn't there also a demand to share say merchandising income or shirt sponsorship income?

Kind of devils advocating - I've never been sure if the Spanish way is actually as wrong as is claimed, or if its just the English thing of thinking the dago types ought to be forced to do everything the English way.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[eamonhonda]

Ahhh thats mean. He was a bit angry in the video, but not outrageously so. Yet they go around talking to his neighbours, pub landlord, etc, trying to turn him into an embarassment of a human.

First encounter of the daily mail I assume?

[Guest]

Been hitting the gym for first time in years recently. The posing and flexing going on at the mirrors is genuinely outrageous. Guys stopping just short of whipping out their lads and wanking off to their own reflection. Never seen it as bad before

[Raoul Duke III]

SPOILER

They don't actually outspend everyone. Real Madrid and Barcelona are financial beasts.

SPOILER

They're not actually shite in Europe. English clubs have consistently reached the latter stages of the competition for ~17 years now. Typically if they get eliminated it is by one of the other big teams. Two clubs both unexpectedly lost their matches in one night so everyone is massively over-reacting.

For the second spoiler, they did shite last season too? Something is wrong with the model, money in <> results out.

[Raoul Duke III]

I can't imagine him getting the bandwidth for that kind of analysis even on a dedicated rugby channel
Has he taken a coaching position anywhere yet?

He starts work at Investec after the WC iirc

Edit: in January. He's already done a 6-month internship.

[Raoul Duke III]

Been hitting the gym for first time in years recently. The posing and flexing going on at the mirrors is genuinely outrageous. Guys stopping just short of whipping out their lads and wanking off to their own reflection. Never seen it as bad before

Tell Ronaldo to cut it out imo.

[eamonhonda]

Been hitting the gym for first time in years recently. The posing and flexing going on at the mirrors is genuinely outrageous. Guys stopping just short of whipping out their lads and wanking off to their own reflection. Never seen it as bad before

At what point did posting a topless flexing photo on fb of yourself stop becoming a lifetime slagging offence?

[Lao Lao]

For anybody that may be interested, the short documentary that I produced, 'Signs of the Times', has been selected to be shown at the Dublin International Short Film and Music Festival which screens from Oct 8th to Oct 11 across several venues in Dublin

Our short documentary is been shown at 11am on Thursday Oct 8th in 4 Dame Lane along with 8/9 other shorts. Tickets are available at the door on the day.

If anybody is free or fancies mitching off work for a few hours, all are welcome!

[GingerMilla]

This is utter bollox.

It's not cricket to cast such a derisory view of my last post without elaborating further. Maybe it was hurriedly written but im sure there was a grain of truth there somewhere.

[RichieM]

It's not cricket to cast such a derisory view of my last post without elaborating further. Maybe it was hurriedly written but im sure there was a grain of truth there somewhere.

There was truth in it. The difference in quality between the bottom of the premier league and the bottom of the Bundesleague\la liga is pretty huge.

It is tough to see more than 2 teams being able to win either of those leagues and they can rotate players around as much as they like.

The reason why Liverpool were successful in Europe but pretty ordinary in the PL when Benitez was at the helm was his constant rotation system which was mocked by all as it doesn't fit the English system but is ideally suited for the other leagues.

[The Situation]

It's not cricket to cast such a derisory view of my last post without elaborating further. Maybe it was hurriedly written but im sure there was a grain of truth there somewhere.

I'm not even sure what point you were trying to make to be honest. The premier league is not tougher to win than Bundesliga, Bayern would absolutely hose up in the Premier League this season, and Dortmund and Levercusan would be very competitive up there too. Arsenal have a much better chance of winning the Prem than they would the Bundesliga(largely due to presence of Bayern)

Fixture congestion is similarly bad in all big leagues, if anything in the likes of Serie A with their longer winter break its even more congested around Champions league games. I'm not sure why you're making the distinction with Arsenal.

[Raoul Duke III]

Tough one to explain, they're definitely hugely underperforming at the moment considering the money spent/talent on show. Wouldn't be a stylistic problem imo, there's been periods of massive dominance from English sides in the CL era playing the million miles an hour brand. I'd call it more an attitude problem, which could be partially caused by lack of British players in the sides now. If you look at the successful English sides in this competition they all had a really strong British/Irish core who it seemed like it meant a lot more to them than the foreign players in the sides. The likes of Terry and Lampard and Cole at Chelsea, Gerrard and Carragher at Liverpool, United had Keane, Giggs, Neville Scholes, all players who set a massive standard of commitment and expected it of others in the side.

You look at City or Arsenal play in Europe and there's a distinct weak underbelly and lack of character feel about them, if you're not fully committed in this competition you're going to be exposed now matter how talented the individuals in the sides are.

Lesson to be taken from this is that everyone should look to emulate the Barca\La Masia model as it makes sense both financially and results-wise?

[The Situation]

There was truth in it. The difference in quality between the bottom of the premier league and the bottom of the Bundesleague\la liga is pretty huge.

It is tough to see more than 2 teams being able to win either of those leagues and they can rotate players around as much as they like.

The reason why Liverpool were successful in Europe but pretty ordinary in the PL when Benitez was at the helm was his constant rotation system which was mocked by all as it doesn't fit the English system but is ideally suited for the other leagues.

What are you basing that on? La Liga and to a lesser extent Bundesliga are more successful in the Europa league than the premier league which suggests more depth to the leagues. It's just familiarity with the premiership that gives Irish/English fans that opinion that its stronger at the bottom. Bullshit Sky propaganda doesn't help either. Also Barca Real don't rotate their stars that often either.

[Flushdraw]

It's not cricket to cast such a derisory view of my last post without elaborating further. Maybe it was hurriedly written but im sure there was a grain of truth there somewhere.

On the Arsenal bit, they were just shit last night. Wenger didn't quite pick his strongest team, but picked a team capable of comfortably winning the game. As per usual, Arsenal had a big majority of possession and more attacks/shots, but just weren't good enough. They didn't play within themselves. They tried to win the game but were caught out on the counter attack and they didn't have any answers. Olympiacos played well and deserved the win and Arsenal have shown over their 10 or so games this season, that they are there for the taking and nothing to be feared whatsover. That's just typical Arsenal, and nothing to do with the Premier League sides as a whole.