Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - BabyforV

[Tar.Aldarion]

What is the alternative? What about people voting for the best person for the job, even when it doesn't align with whatever party they favour?

[Lplated]

.... Does that mean that literally every poll was wrong though? Weird. Might wait a bit before accepting this one...

Going to take a flyer here. The polls were accurate up until yesterday morning. But as people went to vote, rather than act out their original intention as expressed over many many opinion polls, enough of them changed their minds in key constituencies to avoid the prospect of a Labour government with SNP partners/support.

So, in England itself, enough voters wanted 'their own' government rather than one that was unduly influenced by 50 or so Scottish representatives.

Something similar happened here (2?) elections ago I think. FF , in the last week of the election, in a Sunday poll, looked like winning an overall majority, and the opposition conversation for the next three days concentrated on avoiding that. Sure enough, they didnt get it, but there is an argument there that rather than saying 'the poll was wrong', that in fact the poll was right and influenced people's behaviour.

[Emmet]

so in this analogy scoring goals is 'people voting for who they want to represent them' and winning matches is 'an arbitrary structure designed to stop this happening'. Okay that works.

You vote for your member of parliament to represent your constituency.
(You score as many goals as you can to win the game)
If the rest of your constituency votes for someone else, then they represent you.
(However If the other team scores more they win - 3 points)
Then, within the group of representatives, they aim to organise a government between them that represents the majority of the representatives.
(Of all the teams in the league, the team with the most Points wins the league)
Plenty democratic (and analogous) imo.

---

Regarding the arbitrary structure designed to stop this happening, no doubt that some gerrymandering has affected it previously. But any examples of constituencies where they've been carefully 'corralled'? This might back up your opinion. This might not.

A list system is a great idea, and I'd be all for incorporating some element of it. But I don't think that there's an awful lot wrong with how the current 'vote % => seat %' works. The Farage call for reform is spectacularly reactionary.

[TomD]

Can anyone explain Scotland? Vote no to independence in a referendum but votes massively for SNP in election.

[Lplated]

What is the alternative? What about people voting for the best person for the job, even when it doesn't align with whatever party they favour?

Alternative is any kind of 'proportional' system so that there is closer alignment between votes gained and seats won.

In Ireland (and ours isn't perfect), we start off with requiring that as far as possible the electorate per Dail seat ratio is as close as practicable in each constituency.

We then vote 1 to X in order of our choice for the candidates on the ballot paper.

By having a combination of 3 to 5 seat constutuencies, and requiring candidates to reach a certain quota of votes cast to be elected, it means that there is a much wider number of parties/peoples elected. Not perfect, but still hugely preferable to UK system as evidenced by last nights outcomes.

[Emmet]

Can anyone explain Scotland? Vote no to independence in a referendum but votes massively for SNP in election.

An awful lot of the 'swing' vote that voted NO will have voted SNP this time round.

Independence from the UK a bit of a 'cliff'. A larger SNP element in govt can ideally get some of what Independence could have achieved without the dangers/risks associated. (However, they needed Labour to take almost all of LD's seats)

Also, Labour toned down some of the Leftist policies, SNP snapped them up. Scotland is very Lefty afaik.

[ArmaniJeans]

Can anyone explain Scotland? Vote no to independence in a referendum but votes massively for SNP in election.

Presumably the SNP have policies other than independence, boring regional stuff which we rarely hear about (education, oil money spending, local industry and culture, blah blah). So you could be a supporter of their policies in these areas without being a supporter of independence?

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Denny Crane]

Does it really matter if seats don't match the vote for smaller parties? If you're outside government your number of seats is fairly meaningless, and it's probably better to have a stable parlimentary system then one where small parties hold the balance of power and hold greater sway than they should based on their size.

[Guest]

Great result for people who hate privacy and seeing paedophiles brought to justice. frightening that our nearest neighbour who have access to nuclear weapons is now governed by a man who can't even remember the name of the football team he pretends to support.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[RichieM]

Can anyone explain Scotland? Vote no to independence in a referendum but votes massively for SNP in election.

Like English money but hate English people telling them how to spend it.

[AndyFatBastard]

Can anyone explain Scotland? Vote no to independence in a referendum but votes massively for SNP in election.

They want the security of being in the UK but as much autonomy as possible within that.

[oleras]

Riveting election stuff from across the water....yawnnnn

What about your man outing himself to having a few affairs on the radio the other day, what a plonker.

[Kayroo]

BBV HELP!

Need two tickets to To Kill A Mockingbird. Anyone able to assist???

[hotspur]

Does it look like paddy power saved you some money hotspur?

Well your shrewdness as a bettor seems to have as you had a low max on it. So my proxy bank is €70 something atm I take it?


Please stick the bank Aston Villa to beat West Ham:

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/football-matches/premier-league-matches/Aston-Villa-v-West-Ham-8760258.html#ev_8760258_mkt_grp_1963

Elsewhere I am backing Benteke to score.

[hotspur]

SNP had this 20 year old kid elected. Youngest MP since 1667.

[Denny Crane]

Riveting election stuff from across the water....yawnnnn

What about your man outing himself to having a few affairs on the radio the other day, what a plonker.

Are these not all stooges?

[Jibzzzz]

Booked Flights for UFC Glasgow there. Only Joe Duffy fight annouced so far, Gambooooooool!

Flights €45 return, weekend after McGregor fight, eases the pain of not going to that, ever so slightly.

[eamonhonda]

Well your shrewdness as a bettor seems to have as you had a low max on it. So my proxy bank is €70 something atm I take it?


Please stick the bank Aston Villa to beat West Ham:

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/football-matches/premier-league-matches/Aston-Villa-v-West-Ham-8760258.html#ev_8760258_mkt_grp_1963

Elsewhere I am backing Benteke to score.

Ya I lose my money on betfair. 70ish is the bank will put that on now

[oleras]

Are these not all stooges?

I only came across it this morning through twitter, not too familiar with the show.

[horatio1]

Going to take a flyer here. The polls were accurate up until yesterday morning. But as people went to vote, rather than act out their original intention as expressed over many many opinion polls, enough of them changed their minds in key constituencies to avoid the prospect of a Labour government with SNP partners/support.

So, in England itself, enough voters wanted 'their own' government rather than one that was unduly influenced by 50 or so Scottish representatives.

Something similar happened here (2?) elections ago I think. FF , in the last week of the election, in a Sunday poll, looked like winning an overall majority, and the opposition conversation for the next three days concentrated on avoiding that. Sure enough, they didnt get it, but there is an argument there that rather than saying 'the poll was wrong', that in fact the poll was right and influenced people's behaviour.

I think there not wanting the snp having any say was a major factor in Tories success . I also think that when it came down to the day people looked at their own pockets and the general belief that Cameron had guided them through some rough waters and despite what they had told opinion polls voted for the safest option.

The prospect of Sinn Fein being in power is the closest we have to an SNP situation here but they are unlikely to be in that position in the run up to the next election.

I posted a while back that Enda to be next Taoiseach at 4/6 was free money , the 4/11 he is now is still value as I think it will be 1/5 or 1/6.

Mickey Martin and Adams are next two in the betting Ffs. The only way Enda is not Taoiseach is if the only numbers that add up mean Fine Gael / Fianna Fáil have to go in together and he stands down to let Leo / Coveney take over.

With labour on its " unwinding" of pay reductions and as something for everyone in the audience budget to come I think they might just scrape enough seats for a majority. Having a nibble at 4/1.

[Lplated]

You vote for your member of parliament to represent your constituency.
(You score as many goals as you can to win the game)
If the rest of your constituency votes for someone else, then they represent you.
(However If the other team scores more they win - 3 points)
Then, within the group of representatives, they aim to organise a government between them that represents the majority of the representatives.
(Of all the teams in the league, the team with the most Points wins the league)
Plenty democratic (and analogous) imo.

If we were arguing about how to select who should win the PL, then fine. There is a huge difference between a league system and a democratically elected government. Your point entirely misses the context of what a general election does. -

To descirbe the UK election outcome as 'democratic', means you confine your understanding of the word to simply meaning 'everyone can have a vote'. While that is how it is generally expressed, and understood, it misses the point that it is inherently implicit that 'having a vote' actually counts for something.

More importantly, 'having a vote' in one part of the country should roughly equal 'having a vote' in another. As mentioned, 30k vote average to elect a SNP member contrasted with 4 million average to elect a UKIP member does not achieve that.

[Lplated]

Does it really matter if seats don't match the vote for smaller parties? If you're outside government your number of seats is fairly meaningless, and it's probably better to have a stable parlimentary system then one where small parties hold the balance of power and hold greater sway than they should based on their size.

That is a choice of system, i.e. whether the seats/votes ratio counts as a consideration, and the extent that it does.

But that isn't the problem. The problem is that as between two parties, neither of whom 'won' (i.e. they will both be outside government), the seats/vote discrepency is massive.

In other words, if the seats/votes ratio isn't important in your electoral system, then it should be equally unimportant for all particpants.

[ArmaniJeans]

That is a choice of system, i.e. whether the seats/votes ratio counts as a consideration, and the extent that it does.

But that isn't the problem. The problem is that as between two parties, neither of whom 'won' (i.e. they will both be outside government), the seats/vote discrepency is massive.

In other words, if the seats/votes ratio isn't important in your electoral system, then it should be equally unimportant for all particpants.

The UKIP/SNP vote to seat comparison doesn't highlight any flaw in the system (flawed system that it is).
It is something that is liable to happen under any system when one regional party focuses on a small subset of winnable seats whilst another puts up a candidate in every single constituency.

[AndyFatBastard]

Nail -> Head:

[oleras]

The Waterboys live in Minnesota is on loop for i dont know how long but its a cracking show, they do Purple Rain as an encore and its outstanding, and proably the best version of Dont Bang The Drum i have heard yet.

Setlist here.

Do yourself a favor maybe later with a few beers in hand.

[The Situation]

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[rounders123]

Jasus Raoul Duke your a terrible jinx with the weather!. Some record. What did you do when abandoned, did you hit Gibneys or something?

[Tar.Aldarion]

Think I'll try and find wild garlic in phoenix park at the weekend. There is also a foraging course on there, think i could shadow them.

Might do the cornucopia cooking course, the guy is great

http://www.cooksacademy.com/Short-Courses/Evening/Vegan_Cooking_for_Everyone.html?cd=8179

Although cheaper to buy the book hmm.

[Lord Sir Banter]

Nail -> Head:

What's all that about Andy?
Went back to bed.

[shano1888]

It would be great if the leaders of defeated political parties in ireland had the good grace to fuck off as well.

[CHDad]

Was a really exciting night. Really looking forward to the referendum now.

[CHDad]

Booked Flights for UFC Glasgow there. Only Joe Duffy fight annouced so far, Gambooooooool!

Flights €45 return, weekend after McGregor fight, eases the pain of not going to that, ever so slightly.

There is events 11th, 12th, 15th and 18th. Keep the fingers crossed for Bisping headline, prob end up with JoJo.

[rounders123]

Being a 'fight night' whats the chances of Glasgow main being a 2-3am jobbie?

[mdoug]

Are people actually paying their water charges? I am still in boycott mode

[Tar.Aldarion]

It's that time of year again, bonus day
Lovely start to the weekend.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[CHDad]

Being a 'fight night' whats the chances of Glasgow main being a 2-3am jobbie?

Very unlikely imo. Brits seem to be like Dublin, probably too many loopholes to jump through for a poxy fight night. First time in Scotland too I think, surely they wouldn't make it a late card for their first event.

[hotspur]

Think I'll try and find wild garlic in phoenix park at the weekend. There is also a foraging course on there, think i could shadow them.

According to my forager wild garlic will be found where there is water. So I think that rules out the Phoenix Park. Also will be beside trees.

[Tar.Aldarion]

There is water everywhere, that's deep man. They are probably right regarding general conditions.

However I already know it's in there, green gold! This ain't mah first foragin'. (vegans can also commune with plants)

[CHDad]

Garlic is disgusting.

[Tar.Aldarion]

Sacrebleu!

[LuckyLloyd]

Proddy bastards did Sinn Fein out of a seat.

ul Lloyd m8, theres always next time or something.

Protestants*

Cheers m8

[CHDad]

Virus in the United squad and Carrick out. Away to Palace.

Chelsea players only back in training yesterday after celebrations and host Liverpool.

Could be an interesting weekend in top 4 race.

[Lord Sir Banter]

Thai green chicken curry, boiled rice

[darwinatemyhamster]

Does the away goals rule apply in the championship play off semi finals?

[CHDad]

Does the away goals rule apply in the championship play off semi finals?

Nope.

[darwinatemyhamster]

Nope.

Thanks. Might make for better first legs. Middlesbrough @7/4 my punt for the evening.

[CHDad]

Thanks. Might make for better first legs. Middlesbrough @7/4 my punt for the evening.

Bamford, 2-0.

[oleras]

WWN

3 Ireland Celebrate Purchase Of O2 By Upping Prices For Everyone

[Tar.Aldarion]

chd

SPOILER

[Tar.Aldarion]

WWN

3 Ireland Celebrate Purchase Of O2 By Upping Prices For Everyone

Might as well get O2 for free by upping prices after purchase, genius plan.

[oleras]

Met Éireann really take the piss.

A rain warning ? 20 mins ago ?

Talk about a Dublin centric weather service, its has been pissing for 24 hours here in Limerick. never seen as much water in the garden.

[CHDad]

chd

SPOILER

Heading to Pub. Will keep you posted.

[oleras]

While im on a rant...

Hook always does it...forgets to give out the competition winner, so bloody annoying after taking the time to enter those competitions...ughhh

Slight chance i missed it, but doubtful.

[6starpool]

Met Éireann really take the piss.

A rain warning ? 20 mins ago ?

Talk about a Dublin centric weather service, its has been pissing for 24 hours here in Limerick. never seen as much water in the garden.

Been pissing in Dublin all day too to be fair. Plus, it's always raining in Limerick.

[darwinatemyhamster]

While im on a rant...

Hook always does it...forgets to give out the competition winner, so bloody annoying after taking the time to enter those competitions...ughhh

Slight chance i missed it, but doubtful.

Was that the hotel break/spa one? I entered that aswell.