Bad Beat/Moaning/Venting - pray for Lazare

[Raoul Duke III]

What if the ass falls out of the market?

He falls through the cracks of society.

[ComradeCollie]

You're confusing physics and capitalism.

You seem to be confusing money with wealth. Though I suppose it's the majority view.

[darwinatemyhamster]

Who are the dimwits and halfwits in this scenario?

[Raoul Duke III]

You seem to be confusing money with wealth. Though I suppose it's the majority view.

Money is (one) store of wealth.

All of my arseless trouser-manufacturing community have more of it than their previous turf-chewing incarnations. They are wealthier than previously. Wealth has been created. Rejoice!

[Raoul Duke III]

Who are the dimwits and halfwits in this scenario?

Healy-Rea voters.

[Lazare]

Love when Raoul raids that cellar midweek.

[Lazare]

This is porn for me... How it's made - a Gibson Les Paul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm-_pUsHirw

[Raoul Duke III]

Love when Raoul raids that cellar midweek.

Sober as a Supreme Court Justice.

[Flushdraw]

Bit of banter from the Arsenal Twitter after their latest signing

8k RT's for the original guy!

[ComradeCollie]

Love when Raoul raids that cellar midweek.

He's going to be sick, when someone makes a few million selling arseless trousers.

[Lazare]

He's going to be sick, when someone makes a few million selling arseless trousers.

When they take off the real market will be in fancypants.

If you're showing your pants to the world, make them fancypants.

[horatio1]

Going to south of Spain on Wednesday, just outside Malaga. Are the English and Irish everywhere or is there spots to avoid a standard night out in London just with added heat and skimpier clothes?

Pretty much Ballymun in the sun anywhere between Malaga and Marbella. Head inland up the Mountains the old town of Mijas a nice spot. You didn't say how long or how far south of Malaga but the best steak I've had is in a place called Bandoleros in La Cala , 30-40 mins south of Malaga.

[Strewelpeter]

You're confusing physics and capitalism.

Take the man who decides to manufacture, say, arseless trousers in Ballyferriter.

He goes to the bank, borrows a million.
He rents factory premises and machinery.
He employs ten local dimwits to cut the arses out of 100,000 pairs of trousers.
He sells the trousers to liberally-minded members of society at a healthy markup.
He pays back the bank.
The bank makes profit.
The landlord makes profit.
The local Healy-Rea hostelry makes fortunes.
He expands his business.
He employs more local halfwits to cut arses out of trousers and pays them decent wages
And so forth.

Where is the offsetting loss? Everyone is better off than previously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lin-a2lTelg

[Strewelpeter]

Going to south of Spain on Wednesday, just outside Malaga. Are the English and Irish everywhere or is there spots to avoid a standard night out in London just with added heat and skimpier clothes?

Go up to Granada, spend a day soaking up the Alhambra, spend an evening chasing Spanish stunents.

[Mellor]

This is porn for me... How it's made - a Gibson Les Paul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm-_pUsHirw

I know very little about Guitars, but I have heard of the Les Paul's before.
Are they considered in anyway unique or special considering they are churned out like that?

... but in the main economics inasmuch as it is a science is just as subject to the laws of nature as anything else and although we don't always see it clearly for every profit there is an equal and opposite loss.

I don't that comparison really works.
In works in physics because it is impossible to create, use up or destroy energy. There is just as much energy around today as there was 1000 years ago.
But money isn't a fixed sum like that. I've no idea how much money there is in the world today, trillions anyway. But I'd guess that it was a lot less 100 years ago. If there is more money, in a closed system, then logic dictates that it must has been created without loss somewhere.

Now, whether or not an individual experiences it is another matter.

[Fullof..It]

If the person is a bit of craic then this would be great imo. Book of comics about parenting that are eerily on the money:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fowl-Language-Parenting-Brian-Gordon/dp/1449479677/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456908496&sr=1-1&keywords=fowl+language

EG:

Genuine lol moment, being a parent to diva and you get this

[Raoul Duke III]

World record ODI score for England yesterday.

Captained by Lord Edward Morgan, of The Naul. Dubs crushing everywhere atm.

[Lazare]

I know very little about Guitars, but I have heard of the Les Paul's before.
Are they considered in anyway unique or special considering they are churned out like that?

.

All the top guitar brands would be similarly manufactured. I'm sure Fender and Martin would have the same setup.

The Les Paul is special though, imo. It's a thing of physical beauty, but it's that tone. That clean blues sound, think BB King, Mark Knophler, Jeff Beck.

Some day I'll get one, I actually have a cheap strat but I don't like it, don't like the shape or the tone, gotta get me an LP.

[Bubbleking]

Im sure tax evasion would be less lucrative if our tax system wasnt set up to be consistently disproportionate

[Guest]

Poor Fintan o toole isn't well

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-should-collect-apple-s-13-billion-and-change-ireland-1.2773136

[Keane]

Can we all agree that these cunts are paying a tiny fraction of the taxes they should be or is that too big a proposition?

[Guest]

Can we all finally agree that apple are indeed cunts!?

[ArmaniJeans]

Going to south of Spain on Wednesday, just outside Malaga. Are the English and Irish everywhere or is there spots to avoid a standard night out in London just with added heat and skimpier clothes?

Embrace the resorts, get the local Dart equivalent down to Torremelinos or Benalmadena and enjoy yourself.
Both are actually OK resorts, relaxed enough, and not too in-your-face compared to the yoof resorts in Spain like Magalouf, San Antonio and suchlike.

[DeadParrot]

All the top guitar brands would be similarly manufactured. I'm sure Fender and Martin would have the same setup.

The Les Paul is special though, imo. It's a thing of physical beauty, but it's that tone. That clean blues sound, think BB King, Mark Knophler, Jeff Beck.

Some day I'll get one, I actually have a cheap strat but I don't like it, don't like the shape or the tone, gotta get me an LP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHowqKYSXNI

Serious lack of live blues/soul in Dublin

[DeadParrot]

Can we all agree that these cunts are paying a tiny fraction of the taxes they should be or is that too big a proposition?

Undoubtedly, but European interests effecting sovereign tax affairs is a worrying sign

[Strewelpeter]

You wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry at the likes of O'Toole Doherty and BoydBarrett who seem to think that there will be 10's of billions handed over to Ireland for us to keep for ourselves without any consequence.

Sad part is that its odds on that geniuses like Halligan will be with them by tonight

[Loopz]

@ lazare, while you are waiting to buy that Les Paul bring your strat to this guy in Lucan, he can reset your action etc and it will make you hate it less.

[NewApproach]

Hope this apple ruling isn't the beginning of the end for our multinational tax dodging.
Some idiot in the journal claiming we can end the homeless crisis with the 13 bill. We take that money and multinational companies scarper the homeless crisis is going to look like a very minor problem
Clearly some of these euroloons hate our guts. Time to say thanks for the all the loot go fuck yourselves.

Quite the change of tune from a few weeks ago when you were talking about the scum in the Dublin accountancy firms!

[Keane]

Undoubtedly, but European interests effecting sovereign tax affairs is a worrying sign

I really feel like dodgy tax deals allowing foreign companies to avoid paying their dues in other jurisdictions is far down the list of 'appeal to national sovereignty' gambits.

You wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry at the likes of O'Toole Doherty and BoydBarrett who seem to think that there will be 10's of billions handed over to Ireland for us to keep for ourselves without any consequence.

Sad part is that its odds on that geniuses like Halligan will be with them by tonight

I'm not sure what the dire consequences of this are expected to be? Despite RD's idea I find it hard to believe that Apple are going to up sticks and head for Slovenia because they and we didn't manage to get away with the game of silly buggers we were playing.

These companies have to have offices and workers somewhere. I would have thought that our very favourable tax conditions (even if they have to be slightly more punitive than fractions of a percent), access to the EU, English speaking population, decent lifestyle for attracting workers, vast investments and training already in place, government willing to suck them off etc etc etc are all pretty good reasons why we'll be grand.

Is there a genuine sense that the like of Apple, Intel, Google et al will actually kill thousands of jobs if they are made to pay some extra tax? Are the jobs in Cork even relevant to the taxes? They could do all this chicanery with just a brass plate on an office building and an application form to the CRO couldn't they?

Presumably they are using us to dodge worse tax rules elsewhere anyway?

[Strewelpeter]

I'm not sure what the dire consequences of this are expected to be? Despite RD's idea I find it hard to believe that Apple are going to up sticks and head for Slovenia because they and we didn't manage to get away with the game of silly buggers we were playing.

These companies have to have offices and workers somewhere. I would have thought that our very favourable tax conditions (even if they have to be slightly more punitive than fractions of a percent), access to the EU, English speaking population, decent lifestyle for attracting workers, vast investments and training already in place, government willing to suck them off etc etc etc are all pretty good reasons why we'll be grand.

Is there a genuine sense that the like of Apple, Intel, Google et al will actually kill thousands of jobs if they are made to pay some extra tax? Are the jobs in Cork even relevant to the taxes? They could do all this chicanery with just a brass plate on an office building and an application form to the CRO couldn't they?

Presumably they are using us to dodge worse tax rules elsewhere anyway?

I doubt that everyone is going to cut and run immediately but major changes to the tax benefits will weigh heavily on our attractiveness for FDI but then again these changes are inevitable anyway.
There is going to be, in the medium term, a resolution of some sorts to finding a way to get multinationals to pay a fair tax on their profits where they make those profits. Thats is a bureaucratic, legal and accounting minefield but having supranational entities like the EU forcing rules on them in return for allowing them to trade is the only way it is going to work.

Where we are now as far as I can see is that we have been told to collect the taxes from all the profits Apples worldwide operations have moved through Ireland over the last 25 years.
If there was even the slightest chance that we could just take the money and run I'm sure Baldy Noonan would have it banked by now.

[TheDrunkenOne]

Musta been scary on that flight to force a landing from turbulance and injure 16 people!

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[Strewelpeter]

. It'll have no effect on investment the types of companies we've been attracting still need an EU base and our closest rival UK is gone from the picture. Probably the only effect is that we'll collect more corporate tax.

Let's assume that Noonan and revenue understand that, what do you think are the reasons they are unwilling to take the money and run?

[shrapnel]

Let's assume that Noonan and revenue understand that, what do you think are the reasons they are unwilling to take the money and run?

direct payments into their Cayman accounts

[Lplated]

Let's assume that Noonan and revenue understand that, what do you think are the reasons they are unwilling to take the money and run?

Absolute principle, in EU, that Nations have sovereignty over own tax affairs.
Despite the reporting, what EU are actually doing is using 'State Aid' prohibitions to interfere with a tax matter - i.e. they are both 'observing' and abusing the absolute principle at the same time.

We should be appealing because - a) there is a finding that we engaged in a 'hidden deal' - the only evidence they have to support that are laws that applied not only to Apple but to any other Company, National or International who wished to avail of them - i.e. even if the EU were right on the point, there is no way they could hold it as a fact.

b) Letting the EU, or anyone else, interfere with our Sovereign powers directly, but using indirect means, is a a dangerous precedent, for Ireland, but also for any of the other EU States.
The general agenda of the EU, as seen from Brussells (so more integration etc etc) would quite quickly be imposed unless they are held strictly to those limited matters over which we have voted to give them competence.

C) An appeal, even an unsuccessful one, will be of more general assistance to our reputation as a place for multinationals to invest - i.e. of those who would seek to come/stay in a European Country, they will still be able to view Ireland as a country who would stand up for them, even at our own cost, as against the behemoth that is Brussels.

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[Tar.Aldarion]

This is class http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/emdrive-nas...t-know-1578716

Unruh radiation exerts on an accelerating body. At very small accelerations, Unruh wavelengths become so large they can no longer fit in the observable universe. When this happens, inertia is quantized.

Basically they found a rounding error in the universe that should make accelerating to near speed of light speed possible. It also greatly reduces need for any fuel (as in fuel being pushed out the back of a rocket to make it go faster) and you merely need energy (sunlight/nuclear) to accelerate forever - no onboard fuel.


Of course who trusts these sciency people relying on funding, it probably won't work at all?

[Strewelpeter]

Absolute principle.

I'd say if there was any real possibility of picking up a handy 20 Billion a lot of principles could be traded in for newer models

Truth is there will be no money, if we are forced to collect this it will be owed to America and China and whoever else wants to claim a slice of the pie.

But obv that won't stop imbeciles like Halligan voting against the government again

[Strewelpeter]

This is class http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/emdrive-nas...t-know-1578716

Cool, we'll be able to go visit whoever is calling us from HD164595

[Bubbleking]

in years to come the golden age of cinema will be considered the 1990's and early 2000's. discuss

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[The Situation]

Probably as good a piece as you're likely to read from an ex player.

[shano1888]

in years to come the golden age of cinema will be considered the 1990's and early 2000's. discuss

I think in years to come the 90s will be revered as much as the 60s.

[Strewelpeter]

Don't think that's the case (albeit bear in mind the warning in that tweet I just posted). The court judgement didn't say Ireland couldn't collect tax owed, it just said Ireland had to collect tax owed.

The idea that other EU countries could force Apple to pay corporation tax in their country rather than Ireland is absolutely against the core principles of the single market.

But the statement Vestager made is clear enough

To restore fair competition, Ireland must recover up to €13 billion euros in unpaid taxes from Apple, plus interest. This amount covers the period of 2003 until 2014. It starts ten years before we made our first inquiries to the Irish authorities in 2013. It is for the Irish tax authorities to now determine the exact amount and the modalities of payment....

Finally, it may be that not all the unpaid taxes are due in Ireland.
Apple Sales International is based in Ireland, where it records all profits on sales of Apple products throughout Europe, in the Middle East, Africa and India. As I have already mentioned, this recording of profits in itself is not a matter for state aid rules. It results from Apple's choice of structure.
But, other countries, in the EU or elsewhere, can look at our investigation. If they conclude that Apple should have recorded its sales in those countries instead of Ireland, they could require Apple to pay more tax locally. That would reduce the amount to be paid back to Ireland.

Its almost as if the entire media stopped reading the statement at the headline of 13Bn plus interest and ignored completely the bit where she explains we are only collecting it for the people its really owed to.

[Lplated]

I'd say if there was any real possibility of picking up a handy 20 Billion a lot of principles could be traded in for newer models

Truth is there will be no money, if we are forced to collect this it will be owed to America and China and whoever else wants to claim a slice of the pie.

But obv that won't stop imbeciles like Halligan voting against the government again

Yesterday was the low hanging fruit - a large,cash rich multi-national, that happens to have no actual headquarters, based in a small powerless country.
Next will be other multi-nationals, but again in small powerless countries.
Then they move to mid ranking countries.

The debate isn't about our rate of corporation tax, it has always been about finding ways to centralise policy control (ie actual political power). Countries like Ireland, with our pesky Constitution and our insistence on actually voting on Treaties have been a pain in the integrationists butt.

All the more so when at the same time as holding up the train, we were also net beneficiaries of their largesse.

Its not that long ago that we took a collective hit of 60 billion or so in the interests of our European brothers - this time at least we are likely to appeal.

[Raoul Duke III]

Its not that long ago that we took a collective hit of 60 billion or so in the interests of our European brothers - this time at least we are likely to appeal.

If we weren't in the EU, what do you think the collective hit would have been?

Including the wiping out of Irish bank deposits.

We took that 'hit' with a root cause of our own collective stupidity. Seeking to put the blame on the EU is just lazy thinking. Popular in certain quarters but lazy.

[NewApproach]

What's the story with accommodating viewings of a place in the weeks before you vacate a property? My inclination is to tell them to shove it, but the lease says something about allowing viewings "at reasonable hours of the day or night". Thoughts?

[cardshark202]

But the statement Vestager made is clear enough



Its almost as if the entire media stopped reading the statement at the headline of 13Bn plus interest and ignored completely the bit where she explains we are only collecting it for the people its really owed to.

So Apple 'structuring' their company in such a way as to avoid paying taxes in certain countries where they should have been paying, in order to pay cheaper taxes in Ireland, is ok? Why shouldn't the EU force them to pay taxes where they were meant to be paying them?

I will admit to not knowing much about the ins and outs of this case. In fact I'm pretty clueless regarding anything more specific than the headline so I'm open to correction.

[Lplated]

If we weren't in the EU, what do you think the collective hit would have been?

Including the wiping out of Irish bank deposits.

We took that 'hit' with a root cause of our own collective stupidity. Seeking to put the blame on the EU is just lazy thinking. Popular in certain quarters but lazy.

There were two components to the debt we had to take on - our deficit, which as a national or State debt, it seems fair we should take responsibility for.

The other component was that needed to cover the position in the banks, and in particular the bondholders. Private investors and speculators whose investment had just soured.

Our weakness on the deficit front meant they could force us to bear the costs of both components.

So, to answer your question, if we werent in the EU, we'd have had to carry the State component somehow, the private investors portion would have had to be borne where it fell - i.e. mainly in the INvestment Houses of our EU Brethern.

[AndyFatBastard]

But the statement Vestager made is clear enough



Its almost as if the entire media stopped reading the statement at the headline of 13Bn plus interest and ignored completely the bit where she explains we are only collecting it for the people its really owed to.

Thank you for this post. Clarifies and explains a ton about the situation, and debunks a lot of lies being bandied about right now.

[AndyFatBastard]

Why shouldn't the EU force them to pay taxes where they were meant to be paying them?

That's exactly what they are doing! Apple must now pay back taxes based on the tax they should have paid, in the last ten years, without this deal. It is up to the Irish government to determine how much money that is, and up to the individual states to retrieve what they are owed from Apple. IF they don't retrieve it, Ireland must collect the money anyway. The tax must be paid, the EC doesn't care who it is paid to.

[Wombatman]

Ah good old Oman

[Raoul Duke III]

So, to answer your question, if we werent in the EU, we'd have had to carry the State component somehow, the private investors portion would have had to be borne where it fell - i.e. mainly in the INvestment Houses of our EU Brethern.

The 'private investors' burden would also have fallen on ordinary bank depositors as AIB, Bank of Ireland and PTSB collapsed. Tens of billions of Irish citizen's savings would have vapourised.

The State would have done an Argentina and collapsed completely. The social safety net would have largely disappeared - no dole, no pensions, no PS salaries.

The total cost would have been equal to hundreds of billions. And neither you nor I would be sitting here arguing about it, we'd be emigrants along with the rest of the population.

Socialising Anglo was a disgrace. Blaming the EU for our self-inflicted wounds is a displacement activity though. No one external forced us to engage in collective madness.

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[Denny Crane]

The 'private investors' burden would also have fallen on ordinary bank depositors as AIB, Bank of Ireland and PTSB collapsed. Tens of billions of Irish citizen's savings would have vapourised.

The State would have done an Argentina and collapsed completely. The social safety net would have largely disappeared - no dole, no pensions, no PS salaries.

The total cost would have been equal to hundreds of billions. And neither you nor I would be sitting here arguing about it, we'd be emigrants along with the rest of the population.

Socialising Anglo was a disgrace. Blaming the EU for our self-inflicted wounds is a displacement activity though. No one external forced us to engage in collective madness.

Beginning to sound like that El Stunt fella.

[Raoul Duke III]

Beginning to sound like that El Stunt fella.

He was some nutter tbf.