Bad Beat/Moaning/Venting - pray for Lazare

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Guest]

The fact that 50k people are going to London for a rugby match on Friday and this disenfranchises them from a say in their government of the next five years is beyond backward. Introduce a decent postal vote system ffs. In UK you can get a postal vote for any reason.

Or the fact that your vote is presumably in Tralee and you might not be able to make it down - so no vote for you either. How difficult would it be for them to let you call into, say, a Dublin polling station and make your Tralee vote there?

The whole system is designed to disenfranchise younger people.

Shud be able to like ur fav candidate on Facebook

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[ArmaniJeans]

50,000 people who you would imagine are more likely to vote FG than any of the other parties. It is a massive miss step.

Probably closer to 20,000, I'm sure we don't get over half the seats at Twickenham so 50,000 looks wrong.
Even if its an extreme split 70%-30% between pro-government and anti-government voters then its only net 6000 voters lost to the government. But a lot of these will still be able to vote as polling stations open at 7.30am and many people won't be flying out until after lunch or early evening.
So its not really as big a deal as made out, at most 4K votes split between ~15 constituencies.

[ArmaniJeans]

But they do allow that now I'm just saying the way of allowing it should be modernised.

The system allows it, but discourages it by making it difficult and forcing someone like Keane to drive down to Tralee if he wants to vote.
Making it easier for him to vote in Kerry when he lives in Dublin would be a nonsense - he should be voting in a Dublin constituency. Its arguably even more relevant for local elections when he should be voting for candidates who support the local issues that are relevant to him.

[Keane]

The fact that 50k people are going to London for a rugby match on Friday and this disenfranchises them from a say in their government of the next five years is beyond backward. Introduce a decent postal vote system ffs. In UK you can get a postal vote for any reason.

Or the fact that your vote is presumably in Tralee and you might not be able to make it down - so no vote for you either. How difficult would it be for them to let you call into, say, a Dublin polling station and make your Tralee vote there?

The whole system is designed to disenfranchise younger people.

50k? All hardly leaving before the polls open in any case.

It would be a damn sight worse and more cynical to put it on a Thursday in the hopes of disenfranchising the young people in education.

I do agree that having to turn up in person and write on a piece of paper is a pathetic way to run an election in this day and age, and also strongly believe that the diaspora should have a vote.

[Keane]

The system allows it, but discourages it by making it difficult and forcing someone like Keane to drive down to Tralee if he wants to vote.
Making it easier for him to vote in Kerry when he lives in Dublin would be a nonsense - he should be voting in a Dublin constituency. Its arguably even more relevant for local elections when he should be voting for candidates who support the local issues that are relevant to him.

There is rarely a point in getting into a discussion with Dublin people about the ambiguities, practical and otherwise, of being a country person essentially forced by economics into the city, but suffice it to say I find your opinion aggravating and simplistic.

[eagle eye]

I don't seem to be able to get this to embed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD9gJYGkfyM

[eamonhonda]

Don't use embed link, just copy url but take out the s from https

[RichieM]

I was more making the point that being away for a day shouldn't disenfranchise you from a say on how you are governed for five years.

I quite agree with you but if I was picking the date as FG were I would be picking a date to disenfranchise the people I dont think will vote for me not those who I think will.

[RichieM]

50k? All hardly leaving before the polls open in any case.

It would be a damn sight worse and more cynical to put it on a Thursday in the hopes of disenfranchising the young people in education.

I do agree that having to turn up in person and write on a piece of paper is a pathetic way to run an election in this day and age, and also strongly believe that the diaspora should have a vote.

I really dont understand why people think the Dispora should get a postal vote. They all have votes if they want to come back to exercise them.

Paper votes is obviously nonesense tho.

[Denny Crane]

I really dont understand why people think the Dispora should get a postal vote. They all have votes if they want to come back to exercise them.

Paper votes is obviously nonesense tho.

I can understand it for perhaps the president, but as heart warming as the last ref was, I don't really think that people who don't live or pay taxes here should have a say on who governs those of us who do.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Denny Crane]

There is rarely a point in getting into a discussion with Dublin people about the ambiguities, practical and otherwise, of being a country person essentially forced by economics into the city, but suffice it to say I find your opinion aggravating and simplistic.

It's so automatic that I've never actually thought about how grim it is that it's almost standard for anyone young to at move to Dublin for work/college.

[RichieM]

You trying to disenfranchise SF voters now?

and tipperary TD's.......

[Keane]

It's so automatic that I've never actually thought about how grim it is that it's almost standard for anyone young to at move to Dublin for work/college.

If you think the rent prices gall you now, imagine what it would be like if you didn't even want to be in the fucking place!

[Emmet]

I don't understand the call for a Diaspora vote either.

Also, a weird legacy issue exists between UK & Ireland that given that I'm now registered to vote in UK, if I leave the UK with no intention to return, I am still entitled to vote (given that I'm an Irish Citizen) in their elections and referendums for 15 years.

Makes almost no sense at all to me. A country that I've never claimed citizenship in, would not be resident in (but once was) extends a say to me in their day-to-day running?

Tories tried to remove it last year and it was voted to remain? http://irishpost.co.uk/tory-bid-deny...eral-election/

[Keane]

Maybe I'm using the wrong phrase with diaspora, but my opinion is that people who were essentially forced out of the country by political mismanagement of the economy are entitled to a say in what politicians get to manage the economy the next time.

[Guest]

Wonder if #home2vote will trend this yeat

[Emmet]

Maybe I'm using the wrong phrase with diaspora, but my opinion is that people who were essentially forced out of the country by political mismanagement of the economy are entitled to a say in what politicians get to manage the economy the next time.

Extend the rights to all citizens? (note this includes plenty of people who've never been in Ireland!)

If you were born abroad and your parents or grandparents were Irish, you may be entitled to be an Irish citizen by birth or descent.

All citizens who have ever been resident?
All citizens who were resident in the previous X years?

I think it's extremely subjective and difficult to try to tinker out a rule there. Much easier to just use residency as a basis really.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/right_to_vote.html

All citizens have voting eligibility, but they can only exercise the right if they are also resident (and registered on the Electoral Register). Some residents who are not citizens are entitled to votes for some things.

[RichieM]

Maybe I'm using the wrong phrase with diaspora, but my opinion is that people who were essentially forced out of the country by political mismanagement of the economy are entitled to a say in what politicians get to manage the economy the next time.

They are they just have to come home to do so. I would probably remove voting privileges from people rather than hand more out.

Failed to pay tax - no vote
Spent more than 6 months in Jail in your life - no vote
Have more than 50 convictions for any offense no matter how minor and including traffic
Currently bankrupt - no vote
In arrears on any state payment for services- no vote
Attempted to defraud the state of money - falsified medical card claims included.

Basically if you are not paying, trying to steal or actively disruptive to the state you get no say.

[Keane]

Extend the rights to all citizens? (note this includes plenty of people who've never been in Ireland!)

All citizens who have ever been resident?
All citizens who were resident in the previous X years?

I think it's extremely subjective and difficult to try to tinker out a rule there. Much easier to just use residency as a basis really.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/right_to_vote.html

All citizens have voting eligibility, but they can only exercise the right if they are also resident (and registered on the Electoral Register). Some residents who are not citizens are entitled to votes for some things.

No I would think something along the lines you mentioned in the UK would be ok, although I would think residency of some during along with citizenship, rather than just citizenship would be the way to go. It needn't be a lifetime thing either.

Similar to what AJ was talking above there if was forever and always committed to being a Dublin resident then maybe I shouldn't have any say in who represents Kerry or how it is run, but as someone born, raised and hoping to return I could, tbqh, give a shit about who represents Ranelagh while I feel quite a bit more investment in who is representing Kerry.

Obviously it's easier to just use residency but I don't think that makes any real difference to the rightness or wrongness of the thing.

[DeadParrot]

I don't seem to be able to get this to embed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD9gJYGkfyM

Better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEWl09OyVFw

[Keane]

They are they just have to come home to do so. I would probably remove voting privileges from people rather than hand more out.

Failed to pay tax - no vote
Spent more than 6 months in Jail in your life - no vote
Have more than 50 convictions for any offense no matter how minor and including traffic
Currently bankrupt - no vote
In arrears on any state payment for services- no vote
Attempted to defraud the state of money - falsified medical card claims included.

Basically if you are not paying, trying to steal or actively disruptive to the state you get no say.

Would you let Mandela vote?

[eagle eye]

They are they just have to come home to do so. I would probably remove voting privileges from people rather than hand more out.

Failed to pay tax - no vote
Spent more than 6 months in Jail in your life - no vote
Have more than 50 convictions for any offense no matter how minor and including traffic
Currently bankrupt - no vote
In arrears on any state payment for services- no vote
Attempted to defraud the state of money - falsified medical card claims included.

Basically if you are not paying, trying to steal or actively disruptive to the state you get no say.

Is this a picture of you?

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Guest]

I do agree that having to turn up in person and write on a piece of paper is a pathetic way to run an election in this day and age, and also strongly believe that the diaspora should have a vote.

Millions of yanks voting for the shinners cause they heard a song once, now we know you still have a grudge against SP due to the coffee thing, but you trying to give him a seizure?

[RichieM]

fyp

I concur with your fix

[Keane]

Millions of yanks voting for the shinners cause they heard a song once, now we know you still have a grudge against SP due to the coffee thing, but you trying to give him a seizure?

Yeah I can see that using 'diaspora' without a bit more explanation was a bad idea, I mean people from Ireland who have left in the past X years for whatever reason.

There seems to be a suspicion about why these people should care about who is in government here that is strange.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Guest]

Extend the rights to all citizens? (note this includes plenty of people who've never been in Ireland!)

All citizens who have ever been resident?
All citizens who were resident in the previous X years?

I think it's extremely subjective and difficult to try to tinker out a rule there. Much easier to just use residency as a basis really.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/right_to_vote.html

All citizens have voting eligibility, but they can only exercise the right if they are also resident (and registered on the Electoral Register). Some residents who are not citizens are entitled to votes for some things.

Do love telling people who start onto me about having the Irish passport thru granny that I can't vote due to them

Shuts up the begorrah me Irish brother shit fair fast (and I'm happy for them to have it btw)

[Guest]

Yeah I can see that using 'diaspora' without a bit more explanation was a bad idea, I mean people from Ireland who have left in the past X years for whatever reason.

There seems to be a suspicion about why these people should care about who is in government here that is strange.

in the 80's the yanks who where pilling money into the IRA would have!

[RichieM]

Would you let Mandela vote?

A change to spent time in prison for crimes for which the conviction was not overturned, you did not receive a presidential pardon and which are recognised as crimes in the Irish state. I dont see why people who are proving themselves to be a detriment to society should have a say in how it is run. I am not saying anyone who is unemployed shouldn't vote, people who are of a different race or those who have a below average IQ just those who have taken action to make the country a worse place.

People dont loose there right to vote in Ireland if they move away as far as I know. I regularly voted when I lived in Scotland and just arranged to go to Sligo for a visit at the same time.

You are able to vote in Kerry if you want to, the fact that you dont want to take a half day and drive to Kerry is your choice and how you decide to use your annual leave is your business.

[Emmet]

No I would think something along the lines you mentioned in the UK would be ok, although I would think residency of some during along with citizenship, rather than just citizenship would be the way to go. It needn't be a lifetime thing either.

I suppose you could change the way we edit the Electoral Register so that a person renews/applies every year (it gets updated each year, all new people are added).

Instead of clearing one out and starting with the next, we have a X year lag before people are removed from it. If you've not renewed once in the previous X years, you're struck from the Register.

(X ~ 4/15?)

I don't really understand the why though.

[Keane]

People dont loose there right to vote in Ireland if they move away as far as I know. I regularly voted when I lived in Scotland and just arranged to go to Sligo for a visit at the same time.

The only difference between you in Scotland, and some guy in Vancouver or Melbourne is that it's an hour on the plane for you so you're alright Jack.

Did you have no business voting because you had gone to live in Scotland?

The fact that you were in Scotland for a while make no difference to your vested interest in the outcome of votes in Sligo, and you were able to vote for the simple reason that you were close by.

Either way if you had a twin brother who moved to Oz the same day you moved to Scotland had the exact same 'right' to have a say. If you think that should be 'no right at all' then fair enough.

You are able to vote in Kerry if you want to, the fact that you dont want to take a half day and drive to Kerry is your choice and how you decide to use your annual leave is your business.

What is this I don't even?

[Keane]

I suppose you could change the way we edit the Electoral Register so that a person renews/applies every year (it gets updated each year, all new people are added).

Instead of clearing one out and starting with the next, we have a X year lag before people are removed from it. If you've not renewed once in the previous X years, you're struck from the Register.

(X ~ 4/15?)

I don't really understand the why though.

I said my why a bunch of times, if it doesn't do anything for you it doesn't do anything for you.

EDIT: Actually, I may not have been clear sorry, so I will put it down again:

I don't think leaving the country to travel, work, etc for a period means a person's vested interest in the running of the country disappears (just like my interest in Kerry remains). You may argue that the simple fact of absence should remove that person's say in the matter, but I don't agree with that.

[LuckyLloyd]

No representation without taxation is still a solid ideal imo.

[Emmet]

Richie should not have been able to vote from Scotland btw.

Just as I'm not able to vote from here in the UK.

That being said, mistakes happen (and clearly often!) as a voting card turned up at my parents' house in Dublin that I haven't lived in for > 6 years for the Marriage Equality referendum.

Pretty sure it's illegal to do so (although it seems almost totally un-police-able)

[V for Vendetta]

50,000 people who you would imagine are more likely to vote FG than any of the other parties. It is a massive miss step.

50k my arse. More like 5k I'd say. It's not that easy to get tickets to an England home game against anyone much less in the 6Ns against Ireland. There will be lots of Irish there ~20k but about 15k are living in the UK.

I'm flying over on the morning of the game for 15 euro and I only booked the flight last week. Exercising the democratic prerogative on the Friday is in no way impacted by the match IMO.

[Emmet]

I said my why a bunch of times, if it doesn't do anything for you it doesn't do anything for you.

EDIT: Actually, I may not have been clear, so I will put it down again:

I don't think leaving the country to travel, work, etc for a period means a person's vested interest in the running of the country disappears (just like my interest in Kerry remains). You may argue that the simple fact of absence should remove that person's say in the matter, but I don't agree with that.

I don't think it removes their interest in the slightest. I'm quite clearly hoping to return to a 'better Ireland' than I left. I haven't turned my back on the country.

However, there's a marked difference in having an interest and having a say.
I forfeited my right to a say when I left the country.

I am a resident of another country, their rules, laws and economy apply to me now. Ireland's laws etc do not.

It seems baffling to me to allow me a vote on rules and legislators who have no power over me.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[6starpool]

I think only allowing people who live here to vote is the right way. If someone moved to Australia (legally) or wherever to work for an indeterminate period of time then vote there if eligible. I think there should be a better way to confirm residency for voting purposes as well as right now you'll always continue to receive a voting card to your registered address, even if you don't live there any more.

Edit to say that I agree there should be a better way for people who live here but are temporarily away.

[Keane]

I don't think it removes their interest in the slightest. I'm quite clearly hoping to return to a 'better Ireland' than I left. I haven't turned my back on the country.

However, there's a marked difference in having an interest and having a say.
I forfeited my right to a say when I left the country.

I am a resident of another country, their rules, laws and economy apply to me now. Ireland's laws etc do not.

It seems baffling to me to allow me a vote on rules and legislators who have no power over me.

I can only apologise for any baffling I might have caused.

[Emmet]

I can only apologise for any baffling I might have caused.

any thoughts on the material points of the issue?

[AndyFatBastard]

Current Humble Bundle is really good. Barely a dud in it.

[jack90210]

Clearly only Irish citizens living in Ireland should get a vote.

Should be a process if you can show you will be away temporarily during the time of the election your vote can be taken.

[Keane]

any thoughts on the material points of the issue?

Opinions are like arseholes?

[RichieM]

Richie should not have been able to vote from Scotland btw.

Just as I'm not able to vote from here in the UK.

That being said, mistakes happen (and clearly often!) as a voting card turned up at my parents' house in Dublin that I haven't lived in for > 6 years for the Marriage Equality referendum.

Pretty sure it's illegal to do so (although it seems almost totally un-police-able)

I see, I had just thought since my polling card kept coming I was allowed to keep voting. Ah well voting for Sligo politicians is a pretty thankless task as you try to narrow down who is the biggest shithouse rather than who has any sort of a chance of being useful.

[Denny Crane]

It's all moot really since the value of an individual vote is pretty low. Really none of us should be bothered in the first place.

[Solskjaer]

Met either Mary mac or her double in Drumnagh this morning . We exchanged a smile, me with my; dont I know you look and she with her mix of lust and 800 years of hurt in her eyes. Meh could have been any woman I guess but she did look like her

[Keane]

Anyone been to Barbados?

I've been offered about €3k worth of holiday there for ~€1k in June, so quite tempted.

Had been toying with the idea of four or five weeks in Patagonia at the end of the year which this trip would kibosh although could still do two or three weeks down there later.

[Tar.Aldarion]

New martin's life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SW3Ix_L5E4

Current Humble Bundle is really good. Barely a dud in it.

Will check it out cheers, I signed up for the monthly bundle as it has alien isolation in it, 2 days til the rest of the games are released. Pretty sweet deal for $12

[Solskjaer]

Where is my Donald Trump Joe ?


Sick of the elections already. Barbados you say ?

[Tar.Aldarion]

Yeah that humble bundle is damn sweet, pity about most of it being on uplay and me sucking gabens dick. The 15$ pack is incredible value

[Denny Crane]

Anyone been to Barbados?

I've been offered about €3k worth of holiday there for ~€1k in June, so quite tempted.

Had been toying with the idea of four or five weeks in Patagonia at the end of the year which this trip would kibosh although could still do two or three weeks down there later.

Some solid holiday recs being thrown around today!

[Keane]

Some solid holiday recs being thrown around today!

Have you been?

This was the trip we were contemplating - http://www.dragoman.com/holidays/det...uaia?did=88567

Looks pretty class although not the level of luxury I'm normally given to.

[dobby]

Is a bet365 account a must have for mainly football bets and the very occasional horse? Have betfair but just wondering what's better. Have boyles for easy shop access. Closed my PP, Will Hill and Coral accounts if that helps.

[Denny Crane]

Have you been?

This was the trip we were contemplating - http://www.dragoman.com/holidays/det...uaia?did=88567

Looks pretty class although not the level of luxury I'm normally given to.

No, just the pictures look incredible.

[Tar.Aldarion]

saw a three part documentary on patagonia, looks like an amazing place to visit.