General Poker Thread

[Hectorjelly]

I don't mind calling the raise in position this deep. It looks so strong so you are unlikely to be bluffed off your equity on the turn and should get to sd easily enough. Without any reads though folding is probably best as you are in bad shape if he has no bluffs or semi bluffs in his range and is only raising pure value.

We have no good outs, an 8 puts a 4 card straight on the board, as does a jack; and we're not closing the action. When we're ahead there's no reason to think we're going to see a showdown cheaply, if they are raising AT etc on this flop there is no reason to think they are going to slowdown on the turn.

It's one of those situations where although you probably have the best hand now, it's unprofitable to continue. If you call the flop raise, there are still three people to act behind you on the flop - and your hand can stand no more action.

[Caf]

Thanks lads. Yeah, what ikilldurrr1 said went through my head but I eventually folded.

[shano_88]

quick tourney question that I forgot to post at the time from IPPT Clane.

Blinds 200/400 25a. UTG limps. 2 more limpers and I look down at 88 in the sb with 29bbs. UTG has only been at the table for 1 round so no info. Whats your play here?

[Guest]

Prolly complete. Anything else seems bad.

[shano_88]

Meh, I shoved. Theres ~18% of my stack in the middle and Im going to pick that up most of the time. I was between shoving and calling at the time.

[Winning!]

Shoving for the most part, we're gonna pick this up quite often assuming UTG is reasonably wide. Completing is ok too

[shano_88]

Shoving for the most part, we're gonna pick this up quite often assuming UTG is reasonably wide. Completing is ok too

I shoved and everyone folded. UTG sighfolded AK!

[BobSloane]

Villain is 42/20 over 150 hands. Only hand we have played i was oop pf raiser with Q9 and he called flop and turn bets with K7 on 9755A. River went chk/chk. He has donked pot on flop into a few other players but nothing has gone to sd. At least once he has been called on the flop and potted the turn again and got a fold. I have no idea what he's doing it with.
Thoughts on flop raise / turn barrel / hating life now. I was planning on emptying the clip on just about every river if he just calls turn. Thoughts on that? Trying not to be results based but should I just check back this turn?


Party No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Party Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (CO) ($62.45)
UTG ($80.51)
Button ($26.78)
BB ($50)
MP ($51.25)
SB ($50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8, 9
2 folds, Hero bets $1.50, 1 fold, SB calls $1.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($3.50) A, 7, J (2 players)
SB bets $3.33, Hero raises $8.50, SB calls $5.17

Turn: ($20.50) 4 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $11.50, SB raises $26, [color=#666666]

[Hectorjelly]

You played it fine, call now and try to bink. I'd be 50 50 on betting that turn. If he calls the turn bet I would never shove the river against this guy

[chips1234]

You played it fine, call now and try to bink. I'd be 50 50 on betting that turn. If he calls the turn bet I would never shove the river against this guy

would it not be better to just get it in now ? he only has $14 behind, if we flat and brick the river are we really just gonna check fold. Seems spewy to flat no

[Winning!]

Just fold flop. I have no idea what hands he gonna bet/fold flop after leading almost pot into a board that connects heavily with our range so raising or floating seem pretty spewy. Check turn as played, villain looks quite strong and almost never folding after flop action, so take a card and if we hit it's well disguised so may get stacks in.

[The Aul Switcharoo]

Just fold flop. I have no idea what hands he gonna bet/fold flop after leading almost pot into a board that connects heavily with our range so raising or floating seem pretty spewy. Check turn as played, villain looks quite strong and almost never folding after flop action, so take a card and if we hit it's well disguised so may get stacks in.

Yes boy! I was thinking this. Would always check back that turn with those stacks

[Flushdraw]

Final table of a €10 tournament and only top 2/3 prizes worth going for

Easy fold yeah? What about if we have QQ?

UTG playing 40/5 oveer 153 hands
MP1 playing 34/16 over 35 hands with an 11% 3bet
MP2 playing 28/13 over 95 hands

Prima No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 400/800 Blinds (8 handed) - Prima Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (CO) (t47871)
Button (t9020)
SB (t23048)
BB (t29862.50)
UTG (t12432.50)
UTG+1 (t12190)
MP1 (t15540)
MP2 (t38036)

Hero's M: 39.89

Preflop: Hero is CO with J, J
UTG bets t1600, 1 fold, MP1 raises t15460, MP2 raises t37956, Hero ?

[Winning!]

Always folding JJ here w stacks/ICM. QQ is closer, and probably calling since If mp2 is like TT+,AK I would expect the top of that to be blocked a fair amount by Utg and mp1.

[Caf]

Folding JJ and QQ, sighing a bit more w/QQ obv.

This blockers thing just makes no sense to me, sure if UTG+1 tank folds, does that mean he has blockers too?

[Flushdraw]

Cheers gents, yeah i folded but was more thinking about if i find QQ there would i still muck it and i was thinking i would.

UTG folded
MP1 had AKs
MP2 had KK

[Winning!]

This blockers thing just makes no sense to me, sure if UTG+1 tank folds, does that mean he has blockers too?

We never know for sure but if utg range is say 77+/AQ+ and MP1 is 88+/AJ+/KQs then a decent % of the time they will block and thus over a large sample we run into AA/KK less than we statistically should from MP2. Also AI players will block each others outs some w AK etc.

[Sledgejammer]

QQ for the Pokerstars.fr people, if I was to finally get around to opening an account there, would I be able to access it from outside of Europe or do I have to be within the EU to play?

[Guest]

Cardshark would be the man to ask. He plays there from Arg. Not sure if he has to use a VPN or not.

[Flushdraw]

Quick Omaha hi/lo situations

Just took a beat to leave me 14/14 with only final table paid. There's zero chance we're not getting called, so do we still get it in or dump it?


IPoker Pot-Limit Omaha Tournament, 600/1200 Blinds (7 handed) - IPoker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG (t37295.52)
Hero (MP1) (t7012.14)
MP2 (t36679)
CO (t24752.36)
Button (t42846.25)
SB (t12545)
BB (t13963.74)

Hero's M: 3.90

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A, 10, 9, A
UTG calls t1200, Hero ?

[eamonhonda]

Dont think theres any question about getting it in with AAxx with your stack here imo. Your that shortstacked your never gonna see a flop before getting it in and you should be pretty content to get it in here

[Flushdraw]

Dont think theres any question about getting it in with AAxx with your stack here imo

It's omaha hi/lo and i've no low draw and getting called in 1, maybe 2 spots

[tipp86]

Dont think theres any question about getting it in with AAxx with your stack here imo. Your that shortstacked your never gonna see a flop before getting it in and you should be pretty content to get it in here

Its hi lo that hand isnt all that great your only playing for a half a pot really.

From a very limited knowledge of the game i might fold.

[eamonhonda]

It's omaha hi/lo and i've no low draw and getting called in 1, maybe 2 spots

ah my apologies i didnt read properly and assumed it was omaha hi, hence my confusion at why you have a decision. Never play hi/lo so cant offer you any advice there

[daire]

With that stack I'd definitely get it in. Don't underestimate the power of a strong hi hand, half the time the board will run out in such a way that there won't be a low hand won't be possible and you'll scoop.

You've good equity against a calling range, below is a very nitty calling range and you're still a flip:

Hand Equity Scoops Wins Hi Ties Hi Wins Lo Ties Lo
ah as 9h tc 49.89% 782,996 1,384,408 0 0 0
2c 3c 4s 5s, ac 2c 3h 4h 50.11% 787,608 787,608 0 1,174,274 0

[ghostface]

Quick one, fold now/flat pre? Or just hope to be flipping? Early in mtt no reads

Poker Stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t20/t40 Blinds - 9 players - View hand 1630370
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG+2: t2730 68.25 BBs
MP1: t3035 75.88 BBs
MP2: t2145 53.62 BBs
CO: t3930 98.25 BBs
Hero (BTN): t3285 82.12 BBs
SB: t2865 71.62 BBs
BB: t2578 64.45 BBs
UTG: t3060 76.50 BBs
UTG+1: t2835 70.88 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN with J J
4 folds, MP2 raises to t120, 1 fold, Hero raises to t320, 2 folds, MP2 raises to t1120

[Caf]

Quick one, fold now/flat pre? Or just hope to be flipping? Early in mtt no reads

Poker Stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t20/t40 Blinds - 9 players - View hand 1630370
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG+2: t2730 68.25 BBs
MP1: t3035 75.88 BBs
MP2: t2145 53.62 BBs
CO: t3930 98.25 BBs
Hero (BTN): t3285 82.12 BBs
SB: t2865 71.62 BBs
BB: t2578 64.45 BBs
UTG: t3060 76.50 BBs
UTG+1: t2835 70.88 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN with J J
4 folds, MP2 raises to t120, 1 fold, Hero raises to t320, 2 folds, MP2 raises to t1120

Flat pre for me, fold to the 4b.

[Guest]

Ditto.

[Winning!]

Flat pre is preferable this deep. Think Im sighing and getting it in now tho.

[Sledgejammer]

I wouldn't 3-bet unless I was either happy getting it in pre or if he was terrible and liable to raise/call oop with alot of junk but only 4-bet an incredibly narrow range. The decision has to be made before he makes the 4-bet otherwise you're going to end up in alot of meah spots like this, in this case I'd probably just flat the raise unless either of those two things apply.

[tipp86]

Im with caf although i do 3 bet ak in the same spot.

[AndyFatBastard]

LOL tourney donks.

3bet is fine. Fold to the massive 4bet is ok without reads.

[Moneymaker]

We should be 3betting a lot from the button, but i'd rather do it with a weaker or stronger hand. I'd just peel a flop IP here. Don't like 3bet folding a hand this strong.

As played i'd fold.

[Dice75]

Deepstack Tourney yesterday.
Happy how I played it but just curious on others preflop decision.....

blinds 300/600/100

MP Belgian goes 1200, playing 20k.

Me in CO with AcKc make it 2800 (playing 46k), hoping to induce shove.
Suppose I'm viewed as solid enough but have made a few moves & shown a couple.

Button (solid & knows what their doing but capable of making a move here thinking were all at it a bit) fiddles for a minute and makes it 5100 (75k).

Belgian tank folds & action back on me.

Fold, Call or Raise (how much)???

I guess I'm looking at bet sizing, pot control etc for pre-flop & later streets.

[tipp86]

Deepstack Tourney yesterday.
Happy how I played it but just curious on others preflop decision.....

blinds 300/600/100

MP Belgian goes 1200, playing 20k.

Me in CO with AcKc make it 2800 (playing 46k), hoping to induce shove.
Suppose I'm viewed as solid enough but have made a few moves & shown a couple.

Button (solid & knows what their doing but capable of making a move here thinking were all at it a bit) fiddles for a minute and makes it 5100 (75k).

Belgian tank folds & action back on me.

Fold, Call or Raise (how much)???

I guess I'm looking at bet sizing, pot control etc for pre-flop & later streets.

Easy call imo i pretty much hate a 4 bet there for a ton of reasons. I cant really find a fold either considering hes not exactly a nit.

[AndyFatBastard]

Deepstack Tourney yesterday.
Happy how I played it but just curious on others preflop decision.....

blinds 300/600/100

MP Belgian goes 1200, playing 20k.

Me in CO with AcKc make it 2800 (playing 46k), hoping to induce shove.
Suppose I'm viewed as solid enough but have made a few moves & shown a couple.

Button (solid & knows what their doing but capable of making a move here thinking were all at it a bit) fiddles for a minute and makes it 5100 (75k).

Belgian tank folds & action back on me.

Fold, Call or Raise (how much)???

I guess I'm looking at bet sizing, pot control etc for pre-flop & later streets.

Your 3bet size is good although I probably go bigger because I tend to do less 3bet bluffing in tournaments.

For an extra 2300, with 10,900 already in the middle and 40k in implied odds, I think flatting is fine here. That's 9/2 already which is way more than your chances of hitting the flop, so this is a good opportunity to take the low-variance option with AK in a deepstacked tournament. Flop would obviously depend on board texture and villian, but I can't see myself folding to just one bet if I miss.

[Dice75]

Easy call imo i pretty much hate a 4 bet there for a ton of reasons. I cant really find a fold either considering hes not exactly a nit.

Your 3bet size is good although I probably go bigger because I tend to do less 3bet bluffing in tournaments.

For an extra 2300, with 10,900 already in the middle and 40k in implied odds, I think flatting is fine here. That's 9/2 already which is way more than your chances of hitting the flop, so this is a good opportunity to take the low-variance option with AK in a deepstacked tournament. Flop would obviously depend on board texture and villian, but I can't see myself folding to just one bet if I miss.

I flat called, was just wondering on arguments for raise/fold (unlikely!).

Hand played itself from there as I knew exactly where i was on all streets.

[Winning!]

Def flat. flattitg the first time is also fine

[Dice75]

General question - live tourney folded to you in SB (antes in play).

How many BBs in front to shove any two assuming image is relatively standard for both you & BB.

This instance there are 13 left & ave stack is 25bbs.

[Line Us]

Just treat it like a heads up hand and refer to nash charts to see what range is unexploitable.

http://justplaypoker.net/2009/07/nash-equilibrium-sage/

[bohsman]

General question - live tourney folded to you in SB (antes in play).

How many BBs in front to shove any two assuming image is relatively standard for both you & BB.

This instance there are 13 left & ave stack is 25bbs.

15 or so I think depending on size of antes. Would want to be adding around 20% to my stack if I get through.

[ghostface]

Quick one, just playing the Big 5.50 on Stars and wasnt too sure on line here


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 5.5 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds 10 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 (t5795)
Hero (MP2) (t5648)
MP3 (t7698)
CO (t6540)
Button (t2745)
SB (t3652)
BB (t8314)
UTG (t2230)
UTG+1 (t8929)

Hero's M: 23.53

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, K
UTG bets t600, 1 fold, MP1 calls t600, hero????

Not worried bout shortie, MP1 been limp calling most hands pre

[ikilldurrr1]

Calling seems fine to me after the call and try your best to flop TPTK. Shoving is also an option if you believe the caller is wide. 56bbs is a lot but there are c14bbs out there already.

[Caf]

I'm 3betting but not big, prob to around 1.4k. Shorty will prob reshove and if MP flats, then the betting is open to us to come over the top.

[ghostface]

I'm 3betting but not big, prob to around 1.4k. Shorty will prob reshove and if MP flats, then the betting is open to us to come over the top.

Being happy to get 50+ bigs in with AK? The flatter is not a good player just not really happy to get AK in for so much in that spot generally but prob fine vs him

[JWillo1]

Yea always raising here I think, especially if MP1 is playing loose/passive. I like CAFs idea of raising small so that we can re-shove when action is back.

If stacks were reversed and UTG had ~ 8k and MP1 was short how would we preceed then?

SPOILER

I might actually fold..

[Caf]

Being happy to get 50+ bigs in with AK? The flatter is not a good player just not really happy to get AK in for so much in that spot generally but prob fine vs him

Yeah def happy to get it in v him. I'd say he'll muck it to the UTG shove more often than not though.

If stacks were reversed and UTG had ~ 8k and MP1 was short how would we preceed then?

SPOILER

I might actually fold..

Did I find a bigger nit than me. Prob just a flat for me in that spot.

[JWillo1]

Hmm yea maybe ha. Id say flatting is good too. I dunno midday poker is strange...

[Flushdraw]

I just shove pre in this tournament. Happy to take it down pre >>>> get it in v 1 player >>>> get it in v 2 players. Not need to do anything tricky

[tenbob]

I just shove pre in this tournament. Happy to take it down pre >>>> get it in v 1 player >>>> get it in v 2 players. Not need to do anything tricky

+1

[Caf]

There's just too many people still to act for a shove to be the best line imo.

[Flushdraw]

There's just too many people still to act for a shove to be the best line imo.

I read the hand as us being in the BB for some reason which is weird, but i still shove here.

It's the daytime big $5.50. It's full or horrible players that think AQ and J10s are the nuts. We're facing a 6x open for 25% of UTG's stack, and a flat by a calling station for over 10% of his stack. If someone wakes up with AA/KK behind us, so be it but we've decent equity against anything else.

[tmch217]

I'm 3betting but not big, prob to around 1.4k. Shorty will prob reshove and if MP flats, then the betting is open to us to come over the top.

3 betting to 1.4k is just not good here.
if shortie doesnt shove ( we should'nt assume he will esp being the b5$),villain no.2 will 99% flat the 1400, since he just flatted 600.
That leaves us w a 4K~ stack, and 4K ~ in the pot. things just get messy.

we're not nearly getting the correct price to see flop.

Its a pretty standard shove.. generally speaking when we have 8-12~ times the original raise we should always be thinking reshove and nothing else. When there is flatter/s we can be reshoving up to 15-20~ times the original raise.. Reason for this is because we just dont have enuf chips behind (chip stack : pot size), to get into post flop battles

hope this helps.

[Flushdraw]

Quick line check

6/17 in the 10k on ipoker

4 figure payouts for top 4, and only guarenteed less than $100 at the moment.
Guy is playing 23/14 and has a steal of 35%. He opened to 56k from the button in the last round, and i shoved over him with QQ and he called with A8 and hit

What do we like?

IPoker No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7000/14000 Blinds (8 handed) - IPoker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB (t259842.92)
Hero (BB) (t281192.46)
UTG (t673867.84)
UTG+1 (t83880.28)
MP1 (t253492.86)
MP2 (t211228.72)
CO (t88974.78)
Button (t218707.54)

Hero's M: 13.39

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, 10
6 folds, SB bets t251442.92, Hero ?

Total pot: t28000

Results:
SB didn't show

[Hectorjelly]

I don't think I'm folding

[Caf]

Snappage.

edit to try say more: With the previous round r/c he could be almost ATC here and still tilted by losing the pot so shoving to TID there. He prob over-rated the A8, and is a fish(?), so if he has a big hand here he's more than likely going to do the same thing as last time and r/c. I'd consider it running bad to be up against 2 live cards.

[Flushdraw]

I don't think I'm folding

Snappage.

That was always my default, but i folded this time because i'm trying to play a less high variance game of poker lately, and my results have shown it's working but it's a smallish sample size. I wanted to snap, but decided against it.

I know it's only 20bigs, but should be always be calling it off pre? I think we're ahead of his range. If i give him a shoving range of any Ace, 22-10 and some broadways, then we're about 60%, but i don't think the reward of winning his chips outways the risk of getting knocked out of the tournament enough to make the call. I don't think it's a good cEV situation with so much scope to take down uncontested chips or is this thinking just madness!

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

452,048,256 games 0.000 secs 90,409,651,200 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.112% 37.18% 03.93% 168091818 17755204.50 { TT-22, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+ }
Hand 1: 58.888% 54.96% 03.93% 248446029 17755204.50 { AsTs }

[Hectorjelly]

i folded this time because i'm trying to play a less high variance game of poker lately, and my results have shown it's working but it's a smallish sample size. I wanted to snap, but decided against it.

Why, have you only played a couple of thousand tournaments recently?

[Flushdraw]

Why, have you only played a couple of thousand tournaments recently?

I mean since i changed my MTT game! Played maybe 400 tournaments

[Hectorjelly]

I mean since i changed my MTT game! Played maybe 400 tournaments

That's loads! In what space of time?