General Poker Thread

[tipp86]

What everybodys fold to 3bet%?
What is considered a good %?

Mines 49.2 % not sure what that is like.

[shano_88]

Mines 49.2 % not sure what that is like.

mines 75%, Im pretty sure its a bit high. Although I am stealing alot and that obviously drives it up a little bit.

49% seems low though. Im not really sure what the standard is though.

[Line Us]

Ya 49 is low tipp, should definitely tighten it up a bit I'd say, maybe have a look at what positions your flatting most of those.

I'd say anything from 55 to 70 is standard, it seems to vary alot. If you are going to flat more 3bets shano, try and do it in position vs guys with the widest 3betting range, and who cbet 3bet pots too much. Dont add too many hands too fast just for the sake of it though or you'll end up spewing.

[BlindLimper]

I think optimal is supposed to be around 60%-65%. 50% is definatley around the low side.

Edit: Never refreshed the page since i opened it this monring so didnt see you post Nelius.

[Emmet]

Standard?


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($26.58)
BB ($18.73)
UTG ($18.80)
MP ($20)
Hero (CO) ($26.92)
Button ($16.04)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, 10
2 folds, Hero bets $0.70, 1 fold, SB raises $1.90, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.30

Flop: ($4.20) 4, 3, 6 (2 players)
SB bets $2.80, Hero calls $2.80

Turn: ($9.80) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $6.80, Hero folds

Total pot: $9.80

[Emmet]

Would raising turn vs full stack here be spew?


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($22.26)
SB ($14.98)
Hero (BB) ($26.29)
UTG ($25.02)
MP ($23.93)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7, 8
UTG bets $0.80, MP calls $0.80, 1 fold, SB calls $0.70, Hero calls $0.60

Flop: ($3.20) K, 7, 9 (4 players)
SB bets $2, Hero calls $2, 2 folds

Turn: ($7.20) 4 (2 players)
SB bets $3, Hero calls $3

River: ($13.20) K (2 players)
SB bets $9.18 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $13.20

[Bubbleking]

hand 1 - any reads? I think a flod is ok

hand 2 - I call the river

[Guest]

1. I might call turn and fold river. Reads would help.

2. Shipping turn looks ok given he's only playing 75bb. Fold river as played vs most people.

[Emmet]

No reads I'm afraid, just going back through some older hands

[Theresa]

Fold river in 2.

[tipp86]

My vs 3 bet fold per position is over 160k hands

sb 46.3
bb 23.5
early 52.7
middle 52.3
cu 57.8
btn 59.8

I then filtered my last 100k hands as i think my game has changed a bit

sb 51.7
bb 25.0
early 52.9
middle 58.8
cu 61.1
btn 64.6

[tipp86]

While im there anyone notice anything very bad about my stats ?

I guess my vpip/pfr could be higher but im 9 tabling so thats why its on the low side.

[AndyFatBastard]

Seems fine to me Tipp. Stats by position would be better but that looks solid.

[Theresa]

Yeah looks ok.

You actually have a higher 3bet% than me and Im running at 30/24 or thereabouts. My fold to 3bet% is 56.

[Guest]

Your fold to cbet is a bit low as is your button steal.

[tipp86]

Yeah looks ok.

You actually have a higher 3bet% than me and Im running at 30/24 or thereabouts. My fold to 3bet% is 56.

You play @ 50nl on ipoker, dont you ? Its actually unreal the level of 3 betting that is going on there.

When i was playing about 23/18 6 tabling my 3 bet was about 10% looking back at it i was putting myself in some very spewy spots.

I think anywhere between 5-7% is fairly ok obviously depends on vpip/pfr.

[Guest]

What is your overall raise was 3bet stat? Anything over 20% is really an aggressive game.

[Theresa]

You play @ 50nl on ipoker, dont you ? Its actually unreal the level of 3 betting that is going on there.

When i was playing about 23/18 6 tabling my 3 bet was about 10% looking back at it i was putting myself in some very spewy spots.

I think anywhere between 5-7% is fairly ok obviously depends on vpip/pfr.

Its more unreal just how exploitable it is. The regs are genuinely terrible. I can't get over it.

People need to realise that 3betting like a monkey is not good for the bottom line, might be good for the ego or whatever but anyone with half a brain can exploit it far too easily.

Its like they don't realise what it does to their image, and either don't adjust or spew overadjust accordingly.

[tipp86]

What is your overall raise was 3bet stat? Anything over 20% is really an aggressive game.

15.3 % what exactly does that stat mean im pretty useless with stats just about understand the basics.

[Guest]

basically what % of the time when you open that you're 3bet. tbh thats not alarmingly high.

[ghostface]

Quick one just to confirm that I am right here

13 left in the 18k Guar rebuy on Ipoker, next money jump not until final table. Have just lost a big pot the hand previously and now hav 134k (7 bbs).

Playing 7 handed, Blinds 10k/20k/2k ante. Average stack is c. 4-5 bbs

Folded to me on button, sb has 400k+ and bb has 67k total. Instant push with any 2 here right?

[Bubbleking]

Quick one just to confirm that I am right here

13 left in the 18k Guar rebuy on Ipoker, next money jump not until final table. Have just lost a big pot the hand previously and now hav 134k (7 bbs).

Playing 7 handed, Blinds 10k/20k/2k ante. Average stack is c. 4-5 bbs

Folded to me on button, sb has 400k+ and bb has 67k total. Instant push with any 2 here right?

yup but the BB should call you with any too also

[tipp86]

Anyone who withdraws via moneybookers is €14.50 out of €1580 check standard for the bank to charge me.

Sounded a bit nasty to me.

[Emmet]

Gonna post a few weird ones from today.

I'm trying to fold more, ha, its a serious weakness and huge leak I have. That my mind goes obvious b/f but when I do get raised, I always think "they're at it".

How's this? Too weak-tight?
HAND 1
Villain - playing 28/19/2 over 55 hands, Haven't seen him get out of line. Just couldn't see what hands he plays like this that I'm good against.
A strange one I thought
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($24.66)
MP ($21.82)
Hero (CO) ($20)
Button ($19.70)
SB ($13.74)
BB ($17.17)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, A
2 folds, Hero bets $0.70, 1 fold, SB calls $0.60, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.60) J, Q, 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.30, SB calls $1.30

Turn: ($4.20) 2 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.80, SB raises $11.74 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $9.80

[Emmet]

Hated this hand, hated every part of it. Not sure about anywhere apart from preflop tbh.

Villain playing 27/18/3.6 over 200 hands F2CB of 65
HAND 2
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($20)
BB ($8.97)
Hero (UTG) ($26.63)
MP ($2.79)
CO ($21.23)
Button ($20.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, Q
Hero bets $0.70, 1 fold, CO calls $0.70, 3 folds

Flop: ($1.70) 6, 8, 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.27, CO calls $1.27

Turn: ($4.24) K (2 players)
Hero bets $3.20, CO calls $3.20

River: ($10.64) A (2 players)
Hero bets $6, CO raises $16.06 (All-In)

[Theresa]

First one:

I'd prob bet more on the turn.

Good fold though. Unless you've seen him cr bluff in these spots, or his frequencies are off. Id fold.

[Theresa]

Any reads on the second hand?

[Emmet]

Always mess up vs fish, I didn't see his stack size properly before betting. Really think I butchered this post.
Villain - 56/17/2.8 over 1.4k hands F23B is 37%
HAND 3
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($20)
SB ($14.07)
Hero (BB) ($24.86)
UTG ($40.82)
MP ($21.38)
CO ($28.29)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, A
UTG bets $0.60, 3 folds, SB calls $0.50, Hero raises $2.20, UTG calls $1.80, SB calls $1.80

Flop: ($7.20) 10, 8, 10 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.20, 1 fold, SB calls $3.20

Turn: ($13.60) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $2, Hero folds

Total pot: $13.60

[Emmet]

Another one vs a fish. I am not sure I made the right fold here, and think that the flop call is very questionable.

Villain playing 49/12/1.3 over 160 hands, first raise I've seen him put in, and don't have much notes/thoughts on him other than this.
HAND 4
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($20)
CO ($20.79)
Hero (Button) ($20)
SB ($38.22)
BB ($21.38)
UTG ($36.89)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, A
UTG calls $0.20, 2 folds, Hero bets $0.90, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.70

Flop: ($2.10) 10, A, 6 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $1.60, UTG raises $3.20, Hero calls $1.60

Turn: ($8.50) 2 (2 players)
UTG bets $32.79 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $8.50

[Theresa]

Second hand is fine too.

Realistically, only one draw missed and he is unlikley to be bluffing you here, after you barrell 3 streets and the river is an ace. If you think he can ever shove worse for value then Id call. But I dont think he does.

[Emmet]

To cbet or not to cbet. I think this is a spot I get into a lot, and am never sure of what I need to be doing in these type of hands. Is there an obvious spot for a bet / bluff here? Or is it fine to just check/fold to SD mtw?

BTN is a fishy 52/4/1.1 over 160 hands, and BB is a similar 33/5/1 over 80.
HAND 5
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($20.60)
BB ($11.21)
Hero (UTG) ($20.01)
MP ($23.58)
CO ($46.55)
Button ($11.85)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5, 5
Hero bets $0.70, 2 folds, Button calls $0.70, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.20) 7, Q, 8 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: ($2.20) 8 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks

River: ($2.20) K (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks

Total pot: $2.20

[Emmet]

This is just me practising folding
No hands on BTN, UTG is a bit of a LAG though

HAND 6
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

UTG ($24.02)
MP ($20)
Hero (CO) ($20)
Button ($4.90)
SB ($5.31)
BB ($44.39)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, A
UTG bets $0.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.80, Button calls $0.80, 1 fold, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($3.30) A, 6, 5 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $2.40, Button raises $4.10 (All-In), 1 fold, UTG raises $23.22 (All-In), Hero folds

Turn: ($13.90) Q (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($13.90) 2 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $13.90

[Emmet]

Weird / Bad hand.

MP is 22/16/2.4 over 160 hands and seems to know what he is doing.
HAND 7
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

CO ($20)
Button ($34.51)
Hero (SB) ($23.16)
BB ($12.87)
UTG ($20.69)
MP ($27.95)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6, 7
1 fold, MP bets $0.80, 1 fold, Button calls $0.80, Hero calls $0.70, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.60) 8, 5, J (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $1.95, 1 fold, Hero raises $5.80, MP raises $25.20 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $14.20

[Emmet]

Not sure there's much else I can do here, just a line check. If he bets a little less, I can make a decent sized raise instead of shoving, but I don't think I can do that with the potsize now. Wrong?


Villain is competent - 19/17/4.4 over 4k hands. Marginal winner. Cbet stat is 83
HAND 8

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($20)
MP ($18.47)
Hero (Button) ($20)
SB ($40.77)
BB ($22)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, 10
UTG bets $0.80, MP calls $0.80, Hero calls $0.80, 1 fold, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($3.30) A, 5, 6 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $3, 1 fold, Hero raises $19.20 (All-In), 2 folds

Total pot: $9.30

[Theresa]

3rd hand:

I think I call his turn lead, you're geting 7/1, you have likely 6 clean outs and you're hand is good some of the time. Id obv fold if he shoves river though and you dont improve.

4th Hand:

yeah fold is very standard unless you've seen him do this with air/draws before.

5th Hand:

Getting to showdown cheap is the best. Wouldnt cbet here tbh. Too likely to be called and literally any hand that calls has you beat.

6th Hand:

Fold is fine too. He must be quite strong if he is check/raising that board multiway, if he's as aggro as you say Id expect him to cbet most of his one pair, air hands and c/r with nutty hands and combo draws(given the fish is in the pot, he's bluffing less often)

7th Hand:

Flop raise is meh. Your hand has a fair bit of value and getting check raised sucks. You dont have a nut draw either. If I was gonna check raise these types of boards as a bluff it'd be with a hand that has a nuttier potential or an air hand w/ back door draws.

I'd also be less likely to c/r bluff/semi bluff an MP opener on these boards.

Its not terrible though.

[Theresa]

Hand 8:

I'd just call the flop with position here.

[tipp86]

Hand 1 - I def call the fact he is not playing 100bbs makes me think maybe a fish. Your not beating a lot but im not folding.

Hand 2 - Dont know what to say here. Im probably not betting turn against this guy as for the river i just fold think your behind to two pair/set.

Hand 3 - I dont bother cbetting but i think i call the $2 bet.

Hand 4 - I cant find a call here better spots around.

Hand 5 - Fine i think just burning money betting against two fish imo.

Hand 6 - Ya im joining you folding here i think

Hand 7 - Again fine i may 3 bet the odd time pre

Hand 8 - Dont like this really. I call flop and shove turn if he bets / guess it depends on his bet size tho.

[Fuzzy Logic]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IivWf_C9Tgw[/ame]

10 mins of Nutsinho vs Jungleman12 on Pokerstars

[Laois Hammer]

Quick one just to confirm that I am right here

13 left in the 18k Guar rebuy on Ipoker, next money jump not until final table. Have just lost a big pot the hand previously and now hav 134k (7 bbs).

Playing 7 handed, Blinds 10k/20k/2k ante. Average stack is c. 4-5 bbs

Folded to me on button, sb has 400k+ and bb has 67k total. Instant push with any 2 here right?

i dont like shipping any 2 when the bb is going to be forced to call, the whole point in shipping any two is to steal the blinds as they won't be calling correctly but when then have 3bbs and after posting even the worst players are almost 'forced' into calling with a proper range.

id ship all hands with value -v- any 2 here, rather than any 2

[Theresa]

Im beginning to think that 'the big rakeback deals on certain networks are actually good for the game.

I didn't think so before because I figured that they attract a higher % of grinders to a site, and while that may be true these grinders are usually terrible and have massive leaks, so technically the poker site is funding the fish through their rakeback.

Self sustaining economy.

[gorrrr72]

Quick one just to confirm that I am right here

13 left in the 18k Guar rebuy on Ipoker, next money jump not until final table. Have just lost a big pot the hand previously and now hav 134k (7 bbs).

Playing 7 handed, Blinds 10k/20k/2k ante. Average stack is c. 4-5 bbs

Folded to me on button, sb has 400k+ and bb has 67k total. Instant push with any 2 here right?

Wide range yes but not ATC. BB is not folding unless he is terrible, so assuming you are called 100% of the time why risk 1/2 your stack with something really rotten. Cheap double up for BB imo.

[Emmet]

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($49.90)
SB ($16.28)
BB ($27.39)
UTG ($20)
Hero (MP) ($22.58)
CO ($21.61)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, A
1 fold, Hero bets $0.70, 1 fold, Button calls $0.70, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.20) 2, 5, J (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.65, 1 fold, BB raises $5.60, Hero is confused but shoving is only option?

[Guest]

Reads would help. I guess he never raise folds, and you've <40% equity and there isn't enough of an overlay so I guess a fold is ok.

[Emmet]

He's raising nothing but two pairs and sets and made flushes here. He's a tightwad

(doesn't have any two pairs though).

Just stoved it - I'm decimated here, got this all wrong!

[Guest]

Yeah even including flushes as low as 9Ts you're only 37%. Bad enough spot to ship because his range is so narrow.

[Flushdraw]

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($49.90)
SB ($16.28)
BB ($27.39)
UTG ($20)
Hero (MP) ($22.58)
CO ($21.61)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, A
1 fold, Hero bets $0.70, 1 fold, Button calls $0.70, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.20) 2, 5, J (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.65, 1 fold, BB raises $5.60, Hero is confused but shoving is only option?

I'm shipping here. A lot of players at this level will also show up with KhJx/QhJx/Jx10h so i don't think we can ever rule out those hands. Some 2 pair hands will also r/f here with $20 behind. Some strange plays at 20nl

[Guest]

If the guy is as described he never has 2 pairs. In fact even the donks wont show up with 2 pair here much. Have played about 20k at 20nl over the past month and can safely say you're crushed here.

[Emmet]

I'm shipping here. A lot of players at this level will also show up with KhJx/QhJx/Jx10h so i don't think we can ever rule out those hands. Some 2 pair hands will also r/f here with $20 behind. Some strange plays at 20nl

he's a nit though, doesn't have any two pairs, and has a flop raise of something like 8% over 4k hands...

[Theresa]

People dont raise on 3 flush boards with a hand they areNT willing to stack off with. Usually anyway.

[RoadSweeper]

DeucesCracked is free till the 21st chumps

[Guest]

Couple of spots:

Just wondering if anyone fancies a c/r here. Villain is 23/20/5.8. Seems barrely and can put me in bad spots if I flat as about 1/2 the deck is a bad card for us. He can also continue with worse imo. If we do c/r and a diamond comes, whats the plan?

IPoker Network $20.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1034738
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $20.00
Hero (SB): $20.47
BB: $20.10
UTG: $33.08
CO: $18.89

Pre Flop: ($0.30) Hero is SB with K Q
UTG raises to $0.80, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.70, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.80) K 8 J (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.20


Villain runs 23/15/1.9 and is nitty enough. I really dont expect him to go for 3 streets with tp alone...Sizing is also a bit scary

IPoker Network $20.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1034745
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $20.37
Hero (SB): $24.71
BB: $13.13
UTG: $34.11
MP: $5.38
CO: $20.00

Pre Flop: ($0.30) Hero is SB with J A
1 fold, MP calls $0.20, CO raises to $0.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.70, 1 fold, MP calls $0.60

Flop: ($2.60) A 6 Q (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets $2.00, Hero calls $2, MP folds

Turn: ($6.60) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $3.30, Hero calls $3.30

River: ($13.20) J (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $9.40

[Emmet]

Hand 1 - A CR for value seems very thin, but could be worthwhile. What hands are you hoping to have call you here that are worse? I find that TPTK is almost the least that anyone is willing to call CRs with at this level. If you're simply taking down the pot with a CR as you don't want to have to deal with a Q,T,9 or diamond turn, that's probably ok too. I'm interested as to what you think he calls with that is worse, I also think that we are in a tricky situation if he does call, and the pot is big on the turn and we're OOP.

Hand 2 - strange line by villain alright, 2/3, 1/2, 2/3. It almost seems as though the J is his gin card here. He could easily have the same hand as us here. I'm inclined to fold though if he is pretty nitty. Doubt he fires 3 barrels all that much, but its a pretty sick spot. I don't think we're good enough often enough to call.

What do you say to the idea of 3betting pre btw?

[handofgod]

1. Hate c/r, nothing better folds, very little worse calls. I assume you plan to get it in if he 3bets?

2. Meh I couldnt fold this, looks a bit scary though

[Guest]

1. I think we can get value vs a lot of pair and draws. I guess its close between it and c/c but the capitalisation of dead money from a c/r, coupled with the thin value from worse and the fact that it stops us making bigger mistakes on later streets. I raise a lot of flops (>20%) so I'm trying to merge a bit lately by doing so with TPGK/TK on drawy boards.

2. Vs nittier regs I have a fairly strictly polarised 3b range. I never expect him to continue with hands I dominate once I 3b.

[Guest]

1. Hate c/r, nothing better folds, very little worse calls.

This isn't the be-all and end-all of c/r for the reasons I posted above. Also, I think he continues/gets it in with plenty worse. I have about 40% vs his getting it in range, so he really doesn't need to fold that much and it stops me potentially folding the best hand on any A, T, 9, 8, diamonds on turn/river.

[handofgod]

well if you are c/r that much you can prob c/r. I still prefer c/c and c/c any turn if he is inclined to barrell

what worse do you think he continues with? Im surprised you can get 40% against his continuing range, you are likely to be SA/WB if you get it in.

[Guest]

gah pokerstove died. Basically any NFD's and one non-nfd, open enders, sets and KJ. Meh, maybe c/c c/c c/f is a better line.

[BlindLimper]

Hand 1 is kinda interesting. My normal line would be to call and evaluate the turn and end up calling a lot of turn bets. If we c/r and get it in im suprised that we will have 40%. Think id rather have a drawy hand to do it with though as a c/r here with KQ seems wrong.

Snap calling in hand 2 fwiw.

[handofgod]

you need to add AA,AK, also some of the fds, openenders, maybe even KJ may not be in his preflop range from MP ( most prob are though)

[Guest]

Not really loving my equity for snapping it off in 2.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

21 games 0.005 secs 4,200 games/sec

Board: As 6c Qd 4c Js
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 28.571% 19.05% 09.52% 4 2.00 { AcJd }
Hand 1: 71.429% 61.90% 09.52% 13 2.00 { AA, QQ, 66, AQs-AJs, A6s, A4s, AQo-AJo }


Yeah miscalc'd one. I've about 30%. I still think its +EV, but whether its max EV is another story.