General Poker Thread

[bp_me]

One thing I've noticed since picking up playing is that no one folds to cbets anymore! My cbet success used to be about 50% or so when I last was playing, now over a reasonable sample its like 40!

Whats people cbet% in general I used to be up at 80 but have adjusted to the not folding and its about 65 now.

I've been playing micro stakes to clear a no deposit bonus and to start building a BR on party poker this month and over last ~1500 (yes.. insignificant sample size) hands my cbet is ~96% and cbet success is ~76%. On FTP the cbet frequency is similar but the success is only 50% at same stakes (46k hands).

I expect these numbers should drop as one moves up levels though.

[tipp86]

Anyone find floating wild 3 betters by calling assuming there aggressive and shoving over there turn bet is a very profitable move as even the value 3 bet hands that are in there range will usually have weakened.

Its very board & player dependent and it help if the hand has some outs if we get the horrible call.

[Emmet]

I'm BTN, with a Calling station fish on my direct left, and a lagtard directly on his left.

Every hand I open that fish calls gets squeezed.

What's my play with

66
ATs
JTs
QQ

edit - assume 100bbs effective

[TommyGunne]

I'd still open them all Emmet.

Tipp, they also call far far lighter than you'd expect. I don't like planning that far ahead anyway in a hand. You can defo call lighter and shove on them lighter, but I defo wouldn't be making specific plans to call flop and shove turn. With the example you gave, you might be better off just calling them down a ton than shoving on them a ton.

[TommyGunne]

I've been playing micro stakes to clear a no deposit bonus and to start building a BR on party poker this month and over last ~1500 (yes.. insignificant sample size) hands my cbet is ~96% and cbet success is ~76%. On FTP the cbet frequency is similar but the success is only 50% at same stakes (46k hands).

I expect these numbers should drop as one moves up levels though.

96% cbet is way too high, but if you've got a 76% success rate then bombs away. I've one of the lowest cbets of regs I've ever played against though, so am prolly biased somewhat against it!

[Emmet]

I'd still open them all Emmet.

Tipp, they also call far far lighter than you'd expect. I don't like planning that far ahead anyway in a hand. You can defo call lighter and shove on them lighter, but I defo wouldn't be making specific plans to call flop and shove turn. With the example you gave, you might be better off just calling them down a ton than shoving on them a ton.

yup, I meant when he 3bets!

[bp_me]

96% cbet is way too high, but if you've got a 76% success rate then bombs away. I've one of the lowest cbets of regs I've ever played against though, so am prolly biased somewhat against it!

If I had players playing back at me I would certainly lower my cbet frequency against them.

What would people consider a "normal" cbet frequency for the smaller games (2-10NL).

[digiman]

Poker loves fucking you. I was at the peak of my all time winnings in poker just before this downswing started and thinking I was actually going to have a decent year. Was running well and playing really well also. Then they give you the 36buyin downswing or $11k and the old 31 buyins below EV. Surely its going to turn around soon. If I drop another 5 buyins at 200nl I will have to move back down to 100nl and grind it back some more as the bankroll would not be fit for these swings. Please turn around soon

[Guest]

Grim.

[tipp86]

That is nasty just shows why i feel a 100 buy in bankroll is a good thing.

[Starvin Marvin]

Nasty digiman, hope it turns around soon.

[digiman]

That is nasty just shows why i feel a 100 buy in bankroll is a good thing.

For me 100 buy-ins is overkill as I am not a pro, 50 is fine for 200nl I think but would normally have a lot more when I am playing. The main thing I find about being over rolled is that you play a lot better and with much more confidence which is the biggest advantage to it.

[AndyFatBastard]

Horrible stuff Digi. Take a break and move down if you need it. Nobody likes to move down, but if you need to restore your confidence and belief that you're a winning player, it's the best way.

[colquhom]

Move up and win it all back IMO.

I suggest 25/50 CAP PLO

[Emmet]

I'm BTN, with a Calling station fish on my direct left, and a lagtard directly on his left.

Every hand I open that fish calls gets squeezed.

What's my play with

66
ATs
JTs
QQ

edit - assume 100bbs effective

yup, I meant when he 3bets!

...

Anyone

[colquhom]

...

Anyone

How lagatarded? Like 25% 3bet vs steal or what? i'd open all of them, call j10s and a10s and you can prob 4bet call qq and jam 66, need more info though, be specific!

[Emmet]

How lagatarded? Like 25% 3bet vs steal or what? i'd open all of them, call j10s and a10s and you can prob 4bet call qq and jam 66, need more info though, be specific!

Sorry, hard to be specific.

I was playing a table yesterday which hadn't filled yet, so it was playing as 3max, but we were all 100bbs deep.

The guy in the BB just hammered the pot button every time I opened the BTN and the idiot between us had called my open.

I am trying to figure out what I should be doing in general situations though. I was tormented by the guy on the BB, and ended up making some borderline retarded decisions vs him.

Just started me thinking about what I should be doing vs 3bets from the blinds when the guy is decent, and aggressive in normal 6max games.

I would call JTs, ATs and probably QQ too vs a 3bet from the BB when I'm BTN.

I would probably dump 66, but I started thinking about this and realised that this might not be ideal.

The guy in question had something like 35% 3bet on the BB on that table, but obviously the dynamics were messed up.

EDIT to say this post cost me 200bbs (probably 160 really) cause typing it meant I timed out with AA vs a retards open shove pre 200bbs effective

[colquhom]

Sorry, hard to be specific.

I was playing a table yesterday which hadn't filled yet, so it was playing as 3max, but we were all 100bbs deep.

The guy in the BB just hammered the pot button every time I opened the BTN and the idiot between us had called my open.

I am trying to figure out what I should be doing in general situations though. I was tormented by the guy on the BB, and ended up making some borderline retarded decisions vs him.

Just started me thinking about what I should be doing vs 3bets from the blinds when the guy is decent, and aggressive in normal 6max games.

I would call JTs, ATs and probably QQ too vs a 3bet from the BB when I'm BTN.

I would probably dump 66, but I started thinking about this and realised that this might not be ideal.

The guy in question had something like 35% 3bet on the BB on that table, but obviously the dynamics were messed up.

EDIT to say this post cost me 200bbs (probably 160 really) cause typing it meant I timed out with AA vs a retards open shove pre 200bbs effective

lol, nightmare.

Well, you can do simple stuff like open smaller (2/2.5 bbs), open less, 4bet wider as a bluff and 4bet wider for value and call wider when you open smaller.

I suppose you want specifics for those hands though, i doubt if he opens that wide that its gonna be a mistake to call j10s and a10s, you can 4b/call qq or call it and if he really 3b 35% its not gonna be a mistake to jam 66.

[Guest]

min raise, open limp, 4b bluff a lot, 4b call with any pp. That should slow him down quick enough.

[BlindLimper]

EDIT to say this post cost me 200bbs (probably 160 really) cause typing it meant I timed out with AA vs a retards open shove pre 200bbs effective

I had had similar problem to this in the past but i said to myself recently "wtf am i at?" why am i on the internet, talking to 3 people on instant messaging and listening to music when playing poker?.

I would advise you to stop this immediately if you want to improve. This kind of thing is going to slow your progress so much. I dont even listen to music a lot of the time now when playing. You have shown above the most obvious way to lose money when doing this by timing out but from my experience i was losing money by not giving myself enough time to make the correct decissions and just playing on auto pilot (eg. not opening wider when its some fishs BB and the rest of the table wont notice, or opening a hand i normally wouldnt when some shortstacker will shove over my open, etc)

[GAWA9]

Going for most volume ever this month at 1500+ scheduled mtts, got like 240 or so before today, yday was a super fun day, thought I was up like 2k and when I checked this morning it was actually like 6 :P rather nice start to the day.

[Flushdraw]

Quick general sort of question about 6max cash.

I open MP to 3x and i get 3bet to 10x from the BB.

His stats over 200 hands are 19/16 with 3bet 7% and has only faced a 4bet once to which is shipped and had QQ

We're both playing 150bb and i would be seeing as about 22/19 or so

What do we do with 88, 87s and AK

[HiCloy]

I'd call all three 150bb deep

[Theresa]

Quick general sort of question about 6max cash.

I open MP to 3x and i get 3bet to 10x from the BB.

His stats over 200 hands are 19/16 with 3bet 7% and has only faced a 4bet once to which is shipped and had QQ

We're both playing 150bb and i would be seeing as about 22/19 or so

What do we do with 88, 87s and AK

Firstly, 200 hands isnt nearly enough to get an accurate reading on his 3bet %.

150bb, I'd prob 4bet/call AK, and fold the other two until I have more reads. 150bb deep isnt deep at all.

[Theresa]

Although, given you are MP and he is BB, I might call some of the time too with the AK but still fold the other two.

[digiman]

Id normally 4b AK, dont mind calling it either. I call the other 2.

[Theresa]

Id normally 4b AK, dont mind calling it either. I call the other 2.

Really?

Call against what looks like a pretty solid player who 3bets us oop from the BB when we open from MP with 88 or 78s?

Spew imo. We are gonna be put in a ton of difficult spots. Especially with the 88. The 78s not so much.

[tipp86]

As the lads said 4 bet AK.

Im probably going to fold the other 2.

If its cutoff or btn i may play the other 2 hands.

[RoadSweeper]

Looks like Shaun Deeb is joining Bluefire Poker

Got an article up on our site if anyone want to read: http://www.pokertrainingreviews.net/...bluefire-poker

[Line Us]

+1 to flating all 3 hands from mp flushdraw, usually wouldnt bother 4betting ak once we get >120bbs vs an unknown, i suppose its ok if your 4betting QQ+ too vs an unknown but I'd usually flat those too in position once we get deep.

[Dice75]

Poker Stars $5/$10 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

CO: $262.00
BTN: $457.70
SB: $278.05
Hero (BB): $394.50
UTG: $633.75

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is BB with A:spade: Q:heart:
UTG raises to $30, 3 folds, Hero raises to $80, UTG calls $50

Flop: ($165.00) 7:spade: Q:club: 4:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $60, UTG calls $60

Turn: ($285.00) K:spade: (2 players)
Hero bets $254.50 all in, UTG calls $254.50

River: ($794.00) 2:spade: (2 players - 1 is all in)

Any other way to play this?
Thoughts on flop size lead out?
Edit - villain had Qs8s for flush

[HiCloy]

^^ Reads? Don't shortstack, 3b bigger pre or just call (I'd just call without reads), slightly more on flop to leave ~3/4 pot behind on turn, check turn, don't post results

[Dice75]

^^ Reads? Don't shortstack, 3b bigger pre or just call (I'd just call without reads), slightly more on flop to leave ~3/4 pot behind on turn, check turn, don't post results

Playing 45mins few 3 bets between us ,nothing out of line. I had lost a big pot 3 hands previous with KK v AA aipf and that player had left table. It's a 50 bb max buyin table.

I do think i was only getting him to go away pre-flop though.

[RoadSweeper]

Turn shove is spew imo

[AndyFatBastard]

Poker Stars $5/$10 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

CO: $262.00
BTN: $457.70
SB: $278.05
Hero (BB): $394.50
UTG: $633.75

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is BB with A:spade: Q:heart:
UTG raises to $30, 3 folds, Hero raises to $80, UTG calls $50

Flop: ($165.00) 7:spade: Q:club: 4:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $60, UTG calls $60

Turn: ($285.00) K:spade: (2 players)
Hero bets $254.50 all in, UTG calls $254.50

River: ($794.00) 2:spade: (2 players - 1 is all in)

Any other way to play this?
Thoughts on flop size lead out?
Edit - villain had Qs8s for flush

Yeah there is. Sit in for a full stack.

[Dice75]

Turn shove is spew imo

My feeling at the time was he was either on a weaker Q10/QJ or possibly a 67 draw couldnt put him on a set or KQ but i'm beginning to agree with you on the shove.

[Emmet]

The guy in the BB just hammered the pot button every time I opened the BTN and the idiot between us had called my open.

ugh, he's sitting on my left on two very good tables. Killing me!

[GAWA9]

yayyyy

[Emmet]

Is there any other way to play this?


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($37.68)
CO ($20.60)
Hero (Button) ($26.88)
SB ($20.38)
BB ($20.90)
UTG ($23.06)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K
3 folds, Hero bets $0.40, SB calls $0.30, 1 fold

Flop: ($1) J, 6, 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.80, SB raises $2, Hero calls $1.20

Turn: ($5) 9 (2 players)
SB bets $3.60, Hero calls $3.60

River: ($12.20) 4 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $12.20

[Emmet]

Is this valuebet too thin on the river? To get a call from A high?


No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($31.80)
Hero (SB) ($20.10)
BB ($44.52)
UTG ($20.30)
MP ($19.70)
CO ($37.36)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, 7
1 fold, MP calls $0.20, CO bets $0.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.70, 2 folds

Flop: ($2) J, 4, J (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $1.40, Hero calls $1.40

Turn: ($4.80) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($4.80) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $2, CO raises $7.40, Hero folds

Total pot: $8.80

[Guest]

3B call flop in 1 and I'd fold turn as played.

In 2 no one calls for a chop here imo. c/c is much better.

[TommyGunne]

3B call flop in 1 and I'd fold turn as played.

In 2 no one calls for a chop here imo. c/c is much better.

Thats cos you pretty much never chop when you call with A high for two reasons. Firstly, people don't bet A high there, secondly, you have a midpair 90% of the time here.

[AndyFatBastard]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($135.55)
UTG ($100)
MP ($103)
CO ($247.40)
Button ($481.80)
SB ($193.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, Q
3 folds, Button bets $2.50, SB calls $2, Hero raises to $10, Button calls $7.50, SB calls $7.50

Flop: ($30) 4, Q, 3 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $11, Button calls $11, 1 fold

Turn: ($52) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $31, Hero calls $31

River: ($114) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $86....

Thoughts?

[RoadSweeper]

reads?

I prob bet the turn and call river as played vs most

[AndyFatBastard]

reads?

I prob bet the turn and call river as played vs most

Got nothing. It's Rush poker and I'm on my parents PC with no HEM. Only info is that he's currently playing 3 tables so he's probably not a fish.

[Guest]

defo bet turn. As played meh you've opened the door to be barreled so prob have to call it off.

[MegaSin]

Ok take this apart.

No reads as such on the villian. Haven't seen him go to showdown without something.

I know this might be standard as wrong or right. But I am really confused as to what the best play is?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 11 Tournament, 40/80 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com

Button (t6130)
SB (t5180)
Hero (BB) (t2680)
UTG (t3725)
UTG+1 (t3215)
MP1 (t5230)
MP2 (t3000)
MP3 (t4075)
CO (t2420)

Hero's M: 22.33

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, J
2 folds, MP1 bets t240, 5 folds, Hero calls t160

Flop: (t520) A, Q, A (2 players)
Hero bets t400, MP1 calls t400

Turn: (t1320) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks

River: (t1320) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets t880, Hero calls t880

Total pot: t3080

[Emmet]

Fold pre, play it the same post vs people who could be doing this with 99 +

Not usually vs an unknown though

[MegaSin]

Fold pre, play it the same post vs people who could be doing this with 99 +

Not usually vs an unknown though

The unknown part had me worried. He could be doing this with a smelly A4 or the like and taking me to value town.

Odds on this happening?

[sligoboi]

Fold pre as standard. We're only going to put ourselves in rank positions post flop.

On the flop he's going to cbet all of his range imo. so it's a c/c.

River I call simply because of the check on the turn because he prob tries to value bet 99-JJ here as we have played it pretty weak. I play it the same way post but like I said I'm never calling pre.

[bp_me]

QQ...

Any other STT players having trouble with HEM incorrectly calculating rakeback on FTP?

[MegaSin]

Kinda knew it was a pre fold but one of those haven't seen a flop in ages.

So I am thinkng you are right and we are checking out there on the flop.

[Line Us]

No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($613.72)
UTG ($400)
MP ($503.70)
Hero (Button) ($929.60)
SB ($402)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5, 4
UTG bets $14, 1 fold, Hero calls $14, 2 folds

Flop: ($34) J, 3, 2 (2 players)
UTG bets $26, Hero calls $26

Turn: ($86) 9 (2 players)
UTG bets $70, Hero calls $70

River: ($226) 2 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $172, UTG calls $172

Total pot: $570

Results below:
Hero had 5, 4 (one pair, twos).
UTG had 8, 7 (one pair, twos).
Outcome: UTG won $567

[Guest]

WTF, thats ridic. On a side note, river is a bit big...you'd hardly bet that big trying to get value from a J or TT?

[Line Us]

WTF, thats ridic. On a side note, river is a bit big...you'd hardly bet that big trying to get value from a J or TT?

Ya its a bit big actually, I'd bet 1010, jx there btw and better obv along with a few bluffs. Sick call by him i thought, pretty much the only hand he's ahead of.

[Guest]

Ya its a bit big actually, I'd bet 1010, jx there btw and better obv along with a few bluffs. Sick call by him i thought, pretty much the only hand he's ahead of.

TT is surely too thin without history, given there was only one draw on the flop.

meh I dunno if its sick. Just flat out bad. He put you on exactly 4 combos when your range probably includes at least 15, so he's losing like 75% of the time there.

[Line Us]

TT is surely too thin without history, given there was only one draw on the flop.

meh I dunno if its sick. Just flat out bad. He put you on exactly 4 combos when your range probably includes at least 15, so he's losing like 75% of the time there.

1010 isnt very thin against him if he calls with 8 high! I think I'd have found a bet fold with 1010 and some jx seriously though against him anyway. Also all sets and slow played monsters are in my range so I'd say its more like 10% that 8 high is good, misclick maybe because he's a decent winner over a large sample.

[Emmet]

Does he play on Absolute Poker/Ultimate Bet?

Is it Potripper?

[Line Us]

Does he play on Absolute Poker/Ultimate Bet?

Is it Potripper?

I don't wanna out him in case he's an IPBer and see's me calling him a fish!

When I seen what he called with alright I PTR him straight away and was expecting a massive loser, but turns out he's a reg winning at a decent 2.2BB/100 over 200k hands, unless he's a very clever potripper.

[shano_88]

What everybodys fold to 3bet%?
What is considered a good %?