Bad beat/Moan/Venting Thread - BBV Archive 1

[CHDad]

No. They're not. And it's not even close. Whatever you make think of the league etc, they're a far better side than '09. '09 had a far weaker Messi playing, a less effective Iniesta, '09 had Rafa Marquez as first choice centre half for most of the season, '09 had Toure instead of Busquets in mid field, '09 had a finished Henry up front and no Villa or Pedro. Eto'o is the only player in that team not in this team who'd be a contender for a place in the team and almost every player has improved since then, Messi, Pique and Iniesta especially but also Pique. '09 was also without Abidal for nearly half the season and has Gio and Sylvinho playing left back ffs!

Incidentally the European co-efficent rankings, a purely statistical ranking system used by UEFA and without bias based soley on European performance, also says La Liga was stronger in '10 and now than it was in '09 fwiw.

Any idea what their CL results have been like compared to 09? I don't think they are better, maybe slightly.

[CHDad]

Bet?

How the hell would we work that?

[Angry-Ball]

Yeah I give in, my genius is lost on most of them angry-ball. They never appreciate people like us.

lol
i can remember when i was a young energetic fellow like you, this crowd would drain you, now iam a slightly older young fella twisted and full of bitterness.

[Sledgejammer]

Any idea what their CL results have been like compared to 09? I don't think they are better, maybe slightly.

Not off hand, no. I'd imagine close to the same, it's only been 1.5 seasons since then though and I'd be surprised if this years CL results weren't better than '09 overall.

[RasTa]

How the hell would we work that?

Goals scored v Clean sheets obv. You paid £15million too much for someone who had one great season imo.

[Solskjaer]

Found a €5 Merrion chip at the back of my bookcase last night. Throw out?

Bit of a drastic reaction. Do you have OCD or something?

[Raoul Duke III]

Sunday Tribune has gone busto

why couldn't it have been the Sindo?

[Wesley Harms]

How much could Barca realistically get for Messi from City or Chelsea.

What's he worth

[Zod]

Sunday Tribune has gone busto

why couldn't it have been the Sindo?

been haemmoraging money for years.

[CHDad]

Goals scored v Clean sheets obv. You paid £15million too much for someone who had one great season imo.

Who Luiz or Torres?

[ArmaniJeans]

Bit of a drastic reaction. Do you have OCD or something?

Place is shut innit. Thought it'd be like finding an old German 10 Deutchsmark coin, as in no longer of value.

But if as Wombatman said the Jackpot still take them then I might hang onto it, bound to go there eventually.

[Raoul Duke III]

But if as Wombatman said the Jackpot still take them then I might hang onto it, bound to go there eventually.

I first went to the Jackpot in 2007, haven't been back since

[RasTa]

Who Luiz or Torres?

Luiz of course

[Kayroo]

No you read what you wanted to hear as usual . Chelsea did it too. Chelsea's last 3 titles are down to spending big just like every other club in the last 20 years.

Eh...yeah, that's exactly what I was implying.

History has nothing to do with what I am saying. Youth setups are the same nearly now, ours is young theres is complete, also doesn't come into it. Achievements they are ahead, only recent achievements come into it though and they are slightly ahead. Style comes into it, their style is better but ours is top notch too.

Their youth set up is MILES ahead of Chelsea's. La Masia is the absolute model for youth teams. Until Chelsea's system produces players of the consistent quality that La Masia achieves it cannot even be considered close to comparable.

La Masia took over from the Ajax Academy as the best in the world. It's not impossible to surpass Barcelona's system but it'll take some doing. I don't think that modern English clubs are capable of doing what Barcelona were lucky to have put in place almost 30 years ago.

Also, you have decided to define what is and is not relevant and that is fine because even when you do that Barcelona are still the superior team.

Torres said there isn't another level. He is a new player coming to us to win trophies and we are capable of that, youth setups do not come into it, recent history does and ours is good. For him he is at a top level club now who can fulfill his ambitions, there is no level after that.

BREAKING NEWS ON SKY SPORTS: Massive money transfer praises club he joined 20 minutes ago. Coming up after the break: rain makes pitches wet, we expose the scandal.

People will want to argue that Barca are Gods so rabble rabble they are above everyone else but I disagree. IMO they are the best of the best. The top of top level teams. People are creating a super elite level, I think this is needless but each to their own. Everyone pretty much agrees, it is just minor details we are debating.

No, someone has to sit at the top. If they have a comparable rival (which is very rare) then they are joined at the top but overall the elite level can only be occupied by one team. In the 90's in England it was Manchester United. No doubt. In the last 5 years in Europe it has been Barcelona and I would imagine time will bear that out. They should win 2/3 more CL's over the next 4-6 years unless Mourinho figures out a way to make his bat-shit crazy President give him the authority he needs to do his thing and take Barcelona down. Chelsea have had this side (more or less, and arguably a stronger one under Mourinho) for 5 years and, close as they have come, they have not won a CL. It's a results based game as the cliche goes and Chelsea don't have the results to challenge Barcelona.

[Jackyback]

Just ran a sick semibluff there in work with a supplier. Supplier was in two weeks ago looking for increases and was told politely to GTFO as it would add about 40k onto our costs over the year.
Cheeky cunts send a letter in last Friday notifying us that they are pushing ahead with the increases. Made a call yesterday saying we are moving the business and BOOM fucker eating out of my hand this morning with no increases coming my way.

As that dopey fcker Luke Swartz would say........ you got pwned you arrogant man

[Solskjaer]

Place is shut innit. Thought it'd be like finding an old German 10 Deutchsmark coin, as in no longer of value.

But if as Wombatman said the Jackpot still take them then I might hang onto it, bound to go there eventually.

aaah thought you meant the bookcase

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Raoul Duke III]

Pity though, always liked the Tribune.

yeah, the SBP will have to be my Irish sunday paper of choice now

I refuse to even look at the Sindo, still blame those fuckwits for getting Bertie re-elected in '07

[CHDad]

Luiz of course

Clean sheets -v- Torres goals is a terrible bet.

@Kayroo

The setups are the same now and it will take the guts of ten years for Chelsea to show the results. You are going on about stuff completely different to what I was saying.

You think they are the kings and I think they are the best of the top level teams.

Cool, nice chatting with ya

[Starvin Marvin]

How much could Barca realistically get for Messi from City or Chelsea.

What's he worth

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf7uJDhVZIE[/ame]

[shano_88]

Should i get the popcorn out later tonight Marvin?

[Pat Mustard]

just a quick question is the d4 ballsbridge inn the old burlington?

[Raoul Duke III]

Waterstones on Dawson street to close

probably not all that surprising given the economics of online retail vs bricks and mortar but still a bit sad

[Dice75]

just a quick question is the d4 ballsbridge inn the old burlington?

Jurys

[Flushdraw]

No you read what you wanted to hear as usual . Chelsea did it too. Chelsea's last 3 titles are down to spending big just like every other club in the last 20 years.

Excluding the 1998 win when Wenger has only in the hotseat, Arsenal won the title in 2002

In 2001-2002, we brought in 2 disasters in V bronkhurst for 8.5m and Richard Wright for 6m. The 12 months beforehand we brought in Pires for 6m and Wiltord for 13m

We also offloaded Overmars/Petit to Barca for 30m so

Won the league again in 2003-2004 and between 2001 and 2004 we brought in Gilberto for 4.5m, Reyes for 10.5 and VanPersie for 3m

Taking into account the other players to come and go in that period, having a net of about -25m over 4 years while winning the league twice is hardly considering spending big and buying the league

[hotspur]

Oh dear.

And TG was such a sound poster until just now.

Why does not respecting voting make one an unsound person?

[Starvin Marvin]

Should i get the popcorn out later tonight Marvin?

Or now, more just a warning to people than me being a prick but fuck it hes had enough chances to pay it back at this stage.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[eagle eye]

Condering this guy probably doesn't even speak english this is pretty impressive imo.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EclEehExlE[/ame]

[Kayroo]

@Kayroo

The setups are the same now and it will take the guts of ten years for Chelsea to show the results. You are going on about stuff completely different to what I was saying.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/sep/05/chelsea-youth-football

The set-ups are really not the same. If you think they are you are mental. The best recommendation I could find of the youth system at Chelsea was from a player who didn't make it there but had no hard feelings. By the way, I include the 3-tier system of player rotation and captaincy in the Barcelona B side within the youth system of Barcelona just as Guardiola does.

The kings -v- best of the best thing is a bit mystifying though. A king is supposed to be the best of the best. We are essentially agreeing except you don't see that the very best of the elite teams occupies a higher level than the rest of the elite teams. I am not saying Barcelona have a divine right to that position, it's been held by Milan in the past as Trippie so brilliantly pointed out, it's just they occupy it now.

Splitting hairs perhaps.

As for the rest it's clear I cannot convince you but c'est la vie. It was fun.

[eagle eye]

Waterstones on Dawson street to close

probably not all that surprising given the economics of online retail vs bricks and mortar but still a bit sad

Gutted to hear that. Always on my list of stops whenever I'm in Dublin. Haunted the place when I lived up there.

[hotspur]

Why are Sunderland 4/1 to beat Chelsea at home? I'm having a bit of that I think.

[Solskjaer]

Waterstones on Dawson street to close

probably not all that surprising given the economics of online retail vs bricks and mortar but still a bit sad

couldn't balance the books imo

[Raoul Duke III]

couldn't balance the books imo

I sighed so hard I nearly fell off my chair

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[RasTa]

Why are Sunderland 4/1 to beat Chelsea at home? I'm having a bit of that I think.

They have no strikers

[Starvin Marvin]

Wheres my thread gone please.

[CHDad]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...youth-football

The set-ups are really not the same. If you think they are you are mental. The best recommendation I could find of the youth system at Chelsea was from a player who didn't make it there but had no hard feelings. By the way, I include the 3-tier system of player rotation and captaincy in the Barcelona B side within the youth system of Barcelona just as Guardiola does.

The kings -v- best of the best thing is a bit mystifying though. A king is supposed to be the best of the best. We are essentially agreeing except you don't see that the very best of the elite teams occupies a higher level than the rest of the elite teams. I am not saying Barcelona have a divine right to that position, it's been held by Milan in the past as Trippie so brilliantly pointed out, it's just they occupy it now.

Splitting hairs perhaps.

As for the rest it's clear I cannot convince you but c'est la vie. It was fun.

Setups are the same. When I say it will take the guts of ten years I mean to bring through players, get more coaches when we do etc. Facilities are top notch, kids are looked after brilliantly. Roman wants to copy the Barca model more than anything. I know more about this than you, we are well on the way to having similar results. McEachran will be the first. Youth Cup champions at the moment and the underage sides are very very good.

[CHDad]

Why are Sunderland 4/1 to beat Chelsea at home? I'm having a bit of that I think.

Injuries, stay away imo.

[ionapaul]

Hodges Figgis across the road from it is also owned by Waterstones, so maybe they might be able to expand that store a bit. Suppose given that the parent company is on the verge of breaching banking covenants one of the two had to go; and Hodges has the Trinity academic book trade. Lovely store though; one of those ones you could easily get lost in.

I have to say I much prefer Hodges Figgis but even so, it is sad that Waterstones is closing, the more quality bookshops the better for any aspiring city.

[eagle eye]

Excluding the 1998 win when Wenger has only in the hotseat, Arsenal won the title in 2002

In 2001-2002, we brought in 2 disasters in V bronkhurst for 8.5m and Richard Wright for 6m. The 12 months beforehand we brought in Pires for 6m and Wiltord for 13m

We also offloaded Overmars/Petit to Barca for 30m so

Won the league again in 2003-2004 and between 2001 and 2004 we brought in Gilberto for 4.5m, Reyes for 10.5 and VanPersie for 3m

Taking into account the other players to come and go in that period, having a net of about -25m over 4 years while winning the league twice is hardly considering spending big and buying the league

This is not true.

Overmars and Petit left in the summer of 2000 not 2001. And Arsenal spent more than they got that season too. Arsenal spent £30 million net between 2001 and 2004. The figure is higher if you include 2000.

[CHDad]

Flushdraw should be replaced by me.

[ghostface]

Flushdraw out!!

[Solskjaer]

I sighed so hard I nearly fell off my chair

Nearly? Damn. Must try harder

The ol chicken joke might get you off the stool

SPOILER

A chicken walks into the library. It goes up to the circulation desk and says: "book, bok, bok, boook". The librarian hands the chicken a book. It tucks it under his wing and runs out. A while later, the chicken runs back in, throws the first book into the return bin and goes back to the librarian saying: "book, bok, bok, bok, boook". Again the librarian gives it a book, and the chicken runs out. The librarian shakes her head. Within a few minutes, the chicken is back, returns the book and starts all over again: "boook, book, bok bok boook". The librarian gives him yet a third book, but this time as the chicken is running out the door, she follows it. The chicken runs down the street, through the park and down to the riverbank. There, sitting on a lily pad is a big, green frog. The chicken holds up the book and shows it to the frog, saying: "Book, bok, bok, boook". The frog blinks, and croaks: "read-it, read-it, read-it".

[Wesley Harms]

Flushdraw should be replaced by me.

Should make Team Zombies mods for that pwnage and de mod flushdraw for being a more obv werewolf than Michael J Fox

[Trippie]

Setups are the same. When I say it will take the guts of ten years I mean to bring through players, get more coaches when we do etc. Facilities are top notch, kids are looked after brilliantly. Roman wants to copy the Barca model more than anything. I know more about this than you, we are well on the way to having similar results. McEachran will be the first. Youth Cup champions at the moment and the underage sides are very very good.

Having 6 practice fields each or a youth team clubhouse does not mean that the youth set-ups are the same. There is more to a youth programme than facilities. Its a culture which differentiates barca from chelsea. They also have the advantage of the b side to get regular game experience so the step up isnt as big as youth team to full team. Plus the fact you say it will take ten years to see results show that they arent the same.

[Flushdraw]

Excluding the 1998 win when Wenger has only in the hotseat, Arsenal won the title in 2002

In 2001-2002, we brought in 2 disasters in V bronkhurst for 8.5m and Richard Wright for 6m. The 12 months beforehand we brought in Pires for 6m and Wiltord for 13m

We also offloaded Overmars/Petit to Barca for 30m so

Won the league again in 2003-2004 and between 2001 and 2004 we brought in Gilberto for 4.5m, Reyes for 10.5 and VanPersie for 3m

Taking into account the other players to come and go in that period, having a net of about -25m over 4 years while winning the league twice is hardly considering spending big and buying the league

This is not true.

Overmars and Petit left in the summer of 2000 not 2001. And Arsenal spent more than they got that season too. Arsenal spent £30 million net between 2001 and 2004. The figure is higher if you include 2000.

Eh, i said they left in 2000-2001, July to be precise

I also said ABOUT 25m so you can include 30m in that figure. Considering a lot of Arsenal transfers are undisclosed i don't think i said anything wrong

Even if we spent 50m in 4 seasons, we didn't buy any league

[hotspur]

Okay I've thought better of the Sunderland Chelsea match, cheers folks. But having taken the gun out I had to fire a bullet at something so mega mug punter bet of a double on Sunderland H/T Chelsea F/T
Villa H/T Man Utd F/T

@400/1

I think the way United seem to be showing up for the second half of matches the 20/1 about them losing at half time and winning at full is probably a bit generous.

Not too sad about seeing Waterstones go. Hodgis Figis always seemed to me to be a lot better for mug book buying (mug book buying = not buying on Amazon).

[tylerdurden94]

Wheres my thread gone please.

Snipped for now while the big wigs have a look to see how libel it would be or something along those lines would be my guess.

[Starvin Marvin]

Villa will beat the scum tonight, i guarantee it.

Snipped for now while the big wigs have a look to see how libel it would be or something along those lines would be my guess.

Yeah was talking to Flushdraw about it, cool beans.

[CHDad]

Having 6 practice fields each or a youth team clubhouse does not mean that the youth set-ups are the same. There is more to a youth programme than facilities. Its a culture which differentiates barca from chelsea. They also have the advantage of the b side to get regular game experience so the step up isnt as big as youth team to full team. Plus the fact you say it will take ten years to see results show that they arent the same.

You do not know what the Chelsea setup is. I do. They have a very similar program, Chelsea copied it. The step up to youths then to reserves is fairly similar. Reserves is probably not as competitive.

[Trippie]

You do not know what the Chelsea setup is. I do. They have a very similar program, Chelsea copied it. The step up to youths then to reserves is fairly similar. Reserves is probably not as competitive.

I know you probably do know more about the setup than myself but having" a very similar programme" and "copying it" does not make it the same. Youth programmes and teams are based on the intangibilities of the players themselves. Its not about producing one or two good players like the kyle guy you were on about its about a group of youths maturing and developing together. Ajax in mid 90's, United late 90's, madrid around the same time, arsenal and then barca for example.

At what point do you consider your youth programme a success? When one player has graduated to the first team? or is it 2/3 or is it only a success when 80% of the team is made up of people that you have brought through. I would argue that arsenal's youth set up has been more successful too even though they have won nothing. the whole thing is based upon an intangibility that we have no real insight to.

Is a programme successful if no players from the academy are in the team but you constantly churn out players each year that are sold on for big profit like the west ham of old? Is that as successful in its own way?

[DeadParrot]

Should make Team Zombies mods for that pwnage and de mod flushdraw for being a more obv werewolf than Michael J Fox

I still haven't updated your tagline.
Must get around to that at some stage

[eagle eye]

Eh, i said they left in 2000-2001, July to be precise

I also said ABOUT 25m so you can include 30m in that figure. Considering a lot of Arsenal transfers are undisclosed i don't think i said anything wrong

Even if we spent 50m in 4 seasons, we didn't buy any league

Well my reading of your post was that you spent minus 25 million net. You had a - before the figure.

And in 03/04 you were the second biggest spenders in the league behind only Chelsea.

[aodea]

True Grit = amazing. Blew me away best film i have seen in a long time. Is it too soon to watch it again?

[CHDad]

I know you probably do know more about the setup than myself but having" a very similar programme" and "copying it" does not make it the same. Youth programmes and teams are based on the intangibilities of the players themselves. Its not about producing one or two good players like the kyle guy you were on about its about a group of youths maturing and developing together. Ajax in mid 90's, United late 90's, madrid around the same time, arsenal and then barca for example.

At what point do you consider your youth programme a success? When one player has graduated to the first team? or is it 2/3 or is it only a success when 80% of the team is made up of people that you have brought through. I would argue that arsenal's youth set up has been more successful too even though they have won nothing. the whole thing is based upon an intangibility that we have no real insight to.

Is a programme successful if no players from the academy are in the team but you constantly churn out players each year that are sold on for big profit like the west ham of old? Is that as successful in its own way?

The setup is the same!

It will be a success when 4/5 players are produced and around the first 11 obv. It is only a few years old. It needs time.

Who is Kyle?

I do not know why you are going on about success but yeah it is success if it makes money like West Ham.

[tylerdurden94]

True Grit = amazing. Blew me away best film i have seen in a long time. Is it too soon to watch it again?

Never! When Iron Man came out went to an advanced screening on the Thursday and then went to the first showing the next day happens for a few films for me.

You listen to The Naked and Famous album yet? What you think if you did?

[Flushdraw]

Torres wanting to play and score against Liverpool on Sunday

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/9383615.stm

[RichieM]

Torres wanting to play and score against Liverpool on Sunday

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...ea/9383615.stm

Must be on a goal bonus. Prob would have played better for Liverpool if he had a decent ne. No doubt he gets double money for hitting home against his old team.

[aodea]

Never! When Iron Man came out went to an advanced screening on the Thursday and then went to the first showing the next day happens for a few films for me.

You listen to The Naked and Famous album yet? What you think if you did?

Listened to it twice today in the gym. really liked it. Defo going to be listened to a lot. Thanks a million. Ok ill watch new episode of the Cape then will watch true grit again. or when girlfriend comes over tommorrow could pretend i aint seen it and watch it again. (evil plan laugh)