Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[Guest]

Micro transactions the way to go imo. I would happily pay a couple of euro for a good stream of a sporting event I want to watch (paid 4euro for Cork City v Bohs a couple of weeks ago) I do pay for Netflix and Spotify. No legal route to watch a lot of the sports and TV I want to watch so I have no issue watching a shit stream thats worth about what I paid for it.

I think my brother is the new commentator on those streams. Did Cork and Shamrock Rovers last week.

[hotspur]

The simple fact is that theft is morally wrong. There are any number of ways to justify why someone would steal, but the act itself does not become a moral good just because of those reasons.

What is your system of ethics that is leading you to the above conclusions?

[hotspur]

Yeah this. @hotspur what are you on about? Sounds great and Keane loved it but you never had it like this. Ever.

You had MOTD. You still have that.

You are assuming a binary that either Murdoch makes people pay through the nose for how it is now, or that it would currently exist as it was pre-1992. I can imagine something else.

Murdoch, and as Kayroo rightly said, the top clubs screwed us, and have been doing ever since. The consequences are crippling wages and success the plaything preserve of billionaires around the world.

[Silver-Tiger]

You are assuming a binary that either Murdoch makes people pay through the nose for how it is now, or that it would currently exist as it was pre-1992. I can imagine something else.

Murdoch, and as Kayroo rightly said, the top clubs screwed us, and have been doing ever since. The consequences are crippling wages and success the plaything preserve of billionaires around the world.

Fair enough but surely a lot goes to what you value the product. I don't think me paying my €80 per month is paying through the nose.

I just paid €40 for what will be a 80 minute gig and think that is good value. I would and i'm sure you have will pay > 80GBP to got to the new Spurs Stadium. I think €80 a month for > 20 hours of top quality sport is probably one of the better value products i pay for.

Spotify for a tenner prob the best in fairness.

[Guest]

What is your system of ethics that is leading you to the above conclusions?

I suspect countless examples of morally justifiable reasons exist for stealing but the act of stealing itself can never be viewed as being ethically or legally right seems correct to me.

I suppose the difference exists in what is morally and ethically right, one can agree with an ethical principle such as "one should never steal" but that doesn't mean it should be adhered to in the event that it conflicts with a fundamental and likely universally held moral value.

I think Lord Sumption covered some of this concept though not completely the same as everyone agrees with stealing to avoid starvation(I think) but not everyone with assisted dying but when questioned by a lady who helped her husband in assisted dying:

“I think the law should continue to criminalise assisted suicide, and I think that the law should be broken from time to time,” he said.

“We need to have a law against it in order to prevent abuse. It has always been the case that it’s been criminal, but it’s also been the case that courageous friends and families have helped people to die. That is an untidy compromise few lawyers would adopt but I don’t believe there’s a moral obligation to obey the law. Ultimately it’s for each person to decide.”

[Kayroo]

What is your system of ethics that is leading you to the above conclusions?

Aside from Marxism is there an ethical system that doesn’t lead to the above conclusion?

[Lazare]

It's as morally wrong as stealing Travelyan's corn.

Your argument is pedantic.

Also, 'not morally wrong' does not equal morally good.

[Kayroo]

It's as morally wrong as stealing Travelyan's corn.

Your argument is pedantic.

Also, 'not morally wrong' does not equal morally good.

Stealing to save oneself from starvation is justifiable (by mitigation, rather than the act). Stealing cause I wanna watch the Arsenal play Burnley... not exactly the same thing

[Solksjaer!]

What about having no TV licence (Sp read wireless) ? Theft ?
Are you a sponger or a thief?
Hands up who cares ?

Insert DILBERTcartoon to suit.

[Lazare]

Stealing to save oneself from starvation is justifiable (by mitigation, rather than the act). Stealing cause I wanna watch the Arsenal play Burnley... not exactly the same thing

Ahem, a very wise man once said this....

The simple fact is that theft is morally wrong. There are any number of ways to justify why someone would steal, but the act itself does not become a moral good just because of those reasons

[Kayroo]

Ahem, a very wise man once said this....

Yes. Nothing I have said contradicts that.

It is morally wrong to steal. But there are conflicting moral obligations or justifiable imperatives that can mitigate how morally blameworthy someone’s actions are.

The two examples of stealing you gave are morally wrong in my view. But the former (to feed a starving man) can be justified by conflicting imperatives. The latter cannot.

[Lazare]

It was so the young might see the morn actually, but good point.

[AndyFatBastard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoY-jsUuRN0

[hotspur]

Aside from Marxism is there an ethical system that doesn’t lead to the above conclusion?

The simple fact is that theft is morally wrong.

Implied in this is "taking something not legally yours is wrong, always, everywhere, and for everyone".

So, quite simply, yes there are many ethical systems that don't lead to that conclusion. I am asking because it is not clear why you believe that, what your thought process is.

No-one is arguing that stealing is wrong is not a good rule of thumb, and no-one is arguing anything about the law. But these lower order absolutes are ethics for children.

"Lying is wrong"

Does it take any adult more than 10 seconds to realise that this rule of thumb is not a moral absolute? Is "Theft is wrong" a similar order category? It certainly is in my opinion.

So I am asking about your ethical system from which you came to the conclusion behind your statement "theft is wrong" as an absolute. I wouldn't with others because I assume they probably haven't studied ethics, but imagine you may have.

It may be that illegally streaming football is wrong, perhaps even wrong due to a form of moral absolutism, but you have made no such case, and we have no insight into how you arrived at your conclusion that "theft is wrong" is a moral absolute in which justifications are irrelevant.

But I'm sure we all have better thing to do than argue about it anyway.

[Lazare]

Definitely beats that snoozefest golf argument from the other day.

[Hectorjelly]

This is Carlos Tevez's leaked payslip from 2012. Look how much tax he pays. The Premier League combined contributed a total of £3.3 billion in tax to the Treasury in 2016-17.

Soccer teams making money is a good thing. Let them make all the money in the world, and we can take half of it to pay for schools and hospitals.

It's great that they pay tax, but what happens to the other half of that money? Do you see any problems with a system that means the clubs can't or won't pay a living wage to their ordinary staff, but their players make obscene amounts of money.

AA Gill put it best: "All for something that is essentially worthless...You can tell more about a country by how it treats its lunatics than its footballers."

[Hectorjelly]

It is morally wrong to steal.

I'm surprised that you have such a simplistic view on this. Both yourself and Murdrum have stated this as a self evident truth - but it's far from as simple as that. It may "feel" right but that's neither here nor there. At some stage if you go far enough back almost everything of value was taken by someone with no particular right to it. Then backed up by violence they created a code of laws that enshrined their right to the object from then on. Those laws have no more authority than we choose to give them. It's a strange and damaging way to look at the world as a system of objects to be owned and used.

[Guest]

It's great that they pay tax, but what happens to the other half of that money? Do you see any problems with a system that means the clubs can't or won't pay a living wage to their ordinary staff, but their players make obscene amounts of money.

AA Gill put it best: "All for something that is essentially worthless...You can tell more about a country by how it treats its lunatics than its footballers."

Not quite sure what range of clubs we're talking about here but given the example shown, I assume you're taking about EPL teams.

I have no idea now but is it known that EPL teams aren't paying their normal staff a living wage?

[Ed]

In a bus in a queue on the way to All Together now for the last 90 mins. Have probably moved about 2 miles. Grand craic

[Hectorjelly]

Not quite sure what range of clubs we're talking about here but given the example shown, I assume you're taking about EPL teams.

I have no idea now but is it known that EPL teams aren't paying their normal staff a living wage?

It could be a bit out of date, but I remember it being a newstory recently:

https://www.themag.co.uk/2015/03/newcastle-united-lose-battle-not-to-pay-living-wage-to-staff/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/millions-pouring-premier-league-clubs-6233102

[rounders123]

I think my brother is the new commentator on those streams. Did Cork and Shamrock Rovers last week.

The Reuter gets everywhere. Will do anything not to work for the man. Some man that lad.

[ComradeCollie]

Not sure which side the Donald is on

[Keane]

Making out that something can be morally wrong but justifiable seems like a bit of a silly word game to me. Where does the action/outcome begin and end anyway?

Like, it's morally wrong to steal Anders Breveik's gun but justifiable because I know he's going to kill a hundred kids? That just reads like 'morally grand' with pointless extra words.

[Guest]

I'm surprised that you have such a simplistic view on this. Both yourself and Murdrum have stated this as a self evident truth - but it's far from as simple as that. It may "feel" right but that's neither here nor there. At some stage if you go far enough back almost everything of value was taken by someone with no particular right to it. Then backed up by violence they created a code of laws that enshrined their right to the object from then on. Those laws have no more authority than we choose to give them. It's a strange and damaging way to look at the world as a system of objects to be owned and used.

Where did I say stealing is a self evident truth?

What I said was "the act of stealing itself can never be viewed as being ethically or legally right", that seems correct to me, normative externally determined ethics cannot imo conclude stealing to be correct, there's a difference a subtle but important difference between ethics and morals.

I used ethics and morals specifically to avoid this precise assertion, one can agree with an ethical principle but believe that in certain situations that it's more justifiable to contradict those ethics.

I never stated stealing is morally absolute, I'm not quite sure how I feel about moral absolutism vs moral relativism tbh.

[Guest]

The Reuter gets everywhere. Will do anything not to work for the man. Some man that lad.

Yea he has boundless energy. Spent the summer as the Team Norway reporter at the WWC!

[Guest]

Say you got a tipoff that someone was going to carry out a mass shooting and you broke into his house and stole the gun he legally owned. Is that morally wrong?

[Keane]

Say you got a tipoff that someone was going to carry out a mass shooting and you broke into his house and stole the gun he legally owned. Is that morally wrong?

What did I ever do to you

[Hectorjelly]

Where did I say stealing is a self evident truth?

What I said was "the act of stealing itself can never be viewed as being ethically or legally right", that seems correct to me, normative externally determined ethics cannot imo conclude stealing to be correct, there's a difference a subtle but important difference between ethics and morals.

I used ethics and morals specifically to avoid this precise assertion, one can agree with an ethical principle but believe that in certain situations that it's more justifiable to contradict those ethics.

I never stated stealing is morally absolute, I'm not quite sure how I feel about moral absolutism vs moral relativism tbh.

Where did I say stealing is a self evident truth?

What I said was "the act of stealing itself can never be viewed as being ethically or legally right", that seems correct to me,

Apologies if I was inexact, I was trying to address you and Kayroo together. To speak to what you said: I don't think it's self-evident that the act of stealing is somehow wrong. The whole idea of stealing presupposes a system of thought and ethics that ultimately lead down a path that leads to nothingness. How can anyone really lay claim to own something?

[Guest]

What did I ever do to you

I knew it. One post after joining the discussion and I'm already confused I think I'll stick to trying to understand the inanimate!

[Lazare]

What did I ever do to you

I'll tell him you're not happy about him thieving your point.

[Keane]

I knew it. One post after joining the discussion and I'm already confused I think I'll stick to trying to understand the inanimate!

I said pretty much the exact same thing as you about two posts up, as though you had me on ignore

[Guest]

What did I ever do to you

Oh lol. Great minds! The Donald above you distracted me.

[oleras]

Spotify for a tenner prob the best in fairness.

€30/year on a family sub...just saying.

[Hectorjelly]

Cool animated story about WW2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpAJTURalIM

[DeadParrot]

You can justify anything with Kant as long as you as specific with your maxim.

e.g
you could make the argument that Sky/BT are using people as a means to an end by demanding money of them in order for those people to observe events carried out that contribute to human happiness.. As such, satellite tv, and on a larger scale, free market capitalism, fails to adhere to Kant's principles in the formula of humanity.

Kant isa great man for absolutes but he falls down in the real world.
He was against wanking as it reduced the party to a means of sexual gratification
(I'm sure there is a getting your end away pun there )

sad state affairs that no-one squared this circle

[AndyFatBastard]

How's your Da doing DP?

[DeadParrot]

How's your Da doing DP?

Doing better now.
Was in hospital for a few weeks a month back as has developed nerve damage from the fall.
My Da is an old school tough cunt. Seeing him cry in pain and beg for painkillers is something I had a real struggle with.
He was feeling like his muscles were being pulled and torn by unseen hands. It lasted about 5 weeks and then seemingly suddenly stopped. He came straight off the pain killers (and anti depressants which they give for neuralgia which was a surprise), and is now more or less back to himself (post accident)
Cheers for asking m8

[bohsman]

I'm sure you've used one at some point but I quite like the NBA/NFL League Pass option, I haven't signed up this year but I've shared the NBA pass with a mate, £12.50 a month each, 1200+ games, it can be obtained cheaper using a VPN but given the volume of games I feel it's good value.

Exactly, between these types of deals available in America and the massive success of mictotransactions in games I think way less people would steal if there was a decent alternative. I don't have a tv subscription so would have to get that before even looking at 80euro sport subscriptions.

[AndyFatBastard]

Me and Dobby gonna try out the new Wetherspoons on Abbey St tonight, all welcome.

[hotspur]

Me and Dobby gonna try out the new Wetherspoons on Abbey St tonight, all welcome.

Steal a pint for me. But make sure it's from a cnut.

[Guest]

Me and Dobby gonna try out the new Wetherspoons on Abbey St tonight, all welcome.

If its not a depressing shithole, full of sad cunts and with dreadful food its not a proper Wetherspoons!

[Emmet]

Steal a pint for me. But make sure it's from a cnut.

Have you not seen the boss of wetherspoons?

[AndyFatBastard]

If its not a depressing shithole, full of sad cunts and with dreadful food its not a proper Wetherspoons!

I just want to know what it's like to buy a drink in Dublin and get change from a fiver

[Guest]

I just want to know what it's like to buy a drink in Dublin and get change from a fiver

Looks like one of the shiny ones pretending to be a different company

Christ if there is change from a fiver, when in Dublin, I'll drink there myself

[hotspur]

Would anyone have a notion of the kind of cost to send clothes to India? An Indian friend of mine is setting up a school for Dalit (untouchable) children who are as poor as can be. It is a residential school and they will provide clothes (some kids might have 1 or 2 sets of clothes).

He was wondering about me collecting clothes here for the kids and sending them over, and I began wondering how cost effective it is to do so. I just don't have a clue on the kind of shipment cost (obviously I know it is weight related).

[Tar.Aldarion]

http://postage.anpost.ie/

20kg to new delhi €83 (€90 registered)

[rounders123]

Have you not seen the boss of wetherspoons?

Fearsome?

[dobby]

Spoons is wedged, obviously. Off to the aul reliable Nealons

[Dice75]

Basic laptop for her dad for home use and netflix (prob porn too)...local yahoos jn Galway looking cor €900 lol. Any recommendations?

[Guest]

Would anyone have a notion of the kind of cost to send clothes to India? An Indian friend of mine is setting up a school for Dalit (untouchable) children who are as poor as can be. It is a residential school and they will provide clothes (some kids might have 1 or 2 sets of clothes).

He was wondering about me collecting clothes here for the kids and sending them over, and I began wondering how cost effective it is to do so. I just don't have a clue on the kind of shipment cost (obviously I know it is weight related).

https://www.worldbox.ie/ shipped everything to & from NZ with them, they provide the boxes too.

@Dice

https://www.laptopsdirect.ie/ refurbished models are always fine, get a grade A to be safe or even openbox. i3 or i5 fine for general browsing, can recommend something more specific if you like.

[hotspur]

Both pretty much the same price. 20kg doesn't seem like a lot of clothes for 80 odd quid. Mind you I've never weighed clothes and am only going by airline suitcase restrictions.

[Lazare]

Over in Brighton & Hove for the weekend. Such a cool place.

Hove in this weather is so like Nice.

[Tar.Aldarion]

It's fuck all but at least they're kids clothes, small and light innit.
Certainly not the most effectively altruistic thing.

Perhaps contacting a charity, I imagine they have deals with couriers/free freight space etc?

[Micknail]

Both pretty much the same price. 20kg doesn't seem like a lot of clothes for 80 odd quid. Mind you I've never weighed clothes and am only going by airline suitcase restrictions.

Would it be suitable to raise money here instead, then order the uniforms etc via an Indian firm and ship from there?

[ComradeCollie]

Both pretty much the same price. 20kg doesn't seem like a lot of clothes for 80 odd quid. Mind you I've never weighed clothes and am only going by airline suitcase restrictions.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'd expect you can buy more than 20kg of clothes in India for less than €80.

[hotspur]

Well all of this is what I'm figuring out. The clothes idea only popped up today. Yes I will be raising money as well, and perhaps the clothes thing is not financially sensible.

[DeadParrot]

Basic laptop for her dad for home use and netflix (prob porn too)...local yahoos jn Galway looking cor €900 lol. Any recommendations?

That's mental.
You can get something for half the price (if that) that'll do the job.
I've half the people in my place working with these

https://www.currys.ie/ieen/computing/laptops/laptops/lenovo-ideapad-s130-14igm-14-intel-celeron-laptop-64-gb-emmc-grey-10185212-pdt.html

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[ComradeCollie]

Seems like an implied insult of Brighton there dude.

Welcome back! Though are you keeping with the dude usage, even after Boris?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASwZRpW6jdk