On a completely unrelated note, this looks interesting:
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Originally posted by Murdrum View PostI have found her quite good the couple of times I've heard her question the likes of Elliott Abrams.
In what previous situations do you think she's crossed the line?"I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View PostThis the first result on Google and is from Vox so it's a left wing source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox...-semitism-jews
In any case its really just an opinion piece centered is this quote
What I’m fearful of — because Rashida [Tlaib] and I are Muslim — that a lot of our Jewish colleagues, a lot of our constituents, a lot of our allies, go to thinking that everything we say about Israel to be anti-Semitic because we are Muslim. And so to me, it’s something that becomes designed to end the debate because you get in this space of — yes, I know what intolerance looks like and I’m sensitive when someone says, “The words you used, Ilhan, are resemblance [sic] of intolerance.” And I am cautious of that and I feel pained by that.
But it’s almost as if, every single time we say something regardless of what it is we say that is supposed to be about foreign policy or engagement or advocacy about ending oppression or the freeing of every human life and wanting dignity, we get to be labeled something, and that ends the discussion. Because we end up defending that and nobody ever gets to have the broader debate of what is happening with Palestine. So for me, I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay for people to push for allegiance to a foreign country. And I want to ask, why is it okay for me to talk about the influence of the NRA, of fossil fuel industries, or Big Pharma, and not talk about a powerful lobby?Turning millions into thousands
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I totally agree that she has made some distasteful comments stretching back a number of years and culminating in her "All about the benjamins" tweet a few months ago.
She was correctly lambasted on both sides of the aisle and she issued an apology as a result. That is not something that is generally done by others who have made equally or worse racially charged comments in US politics.
Largely though, I'm simply a tad confused what meets the criteria for habitual line stepper in US politics tbh.
The frequency of her comments which could be construed as racially charged seem to pale in comparison to a number of contemporaries.
If she's a habitual line stepper, then I suspect she is not remotely alone in that group.
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostDid you actually read that article? I'm not sure it is saying what you think it is
In any case its really just an opinion piece centered is this quote
Some reach for anyone who to parse antisemitism out of that
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostDid you actually read that article? I'm not sure it is saying what you think it is
In any case its really just an opinion piece centered is this quote
Some reach for anyone who to parse antisemitism out of that
If you’re not careful when talking about pro-Israel lobbying, you can provide ammunition to some awful people. By suggesting that pro-Israel lobbying constitutes a push for “allegiance” to a foreign country, Omar was suggesting that an activity disproportionately conducted by Jews is essentially disloyal, making a fundamentally anti-Semitic idea more acceptable to voice on the left.
“She may think she is only criticizing Israel and its policies,” Deborah Lipstadt, an Emory University professor and leading scholar of anti-Semitism, told Jewish Insider. “But one cannot ignore the fact that she is relying on traditional anti-Semitic tropes to do so.”"I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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The best thing that the Dems could do is stop reacting to Trump's BS.
Why get in the gutter with a rat?
And why let junior members of Congress be the most widely known Dems in the land? Tell them to STFU and get some message discipline."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View Post
I'm not pro-Trump. I just capable of recognising what he's saying and why he's saying it. You and HJ need to stop thinking in this "with us or against us" manner. It's really hurting your cause.
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View PostBut alas, we lack the wisdom and life experience that would allow such an astute take on events."I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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That's exactly what you are implying.
I quote: "I (sic) just capable of recognising what he's saying..."
I'm not sure why you even bother engaging with people like us, who operate on a much lower level of consciousness - no matter how carefully you explain we aren't going to get it. Perhaps if you used a diagram with a nice big font we might understand the very subtle difference between being a racist and defending racist rhetoric.
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Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View PostYou haven't understood what I'm saying. You seem to think I'm defending Trump and the things he said. The only part of Trump's rant that was true is that Ilhan Omar has a habit of saying antisemitic things, getting lambasted for it, apologising, then doing it again a few months later. As for the piece, I pretty much agree with everything in it including the bit you quoted. But there's also this bit:
I'm not pro-Trump. I just capable of recognising what he's saying and why he's saying it. You and HJ need to stop thinking in this "with us or against us" manner. It's really hurting your cause.
I'm still at a loss to understand which bits are the problem
As is said there speaking about Israel is a minefield and she negotiates it reasonably well IMO unlike for instance the british Labour party who I have no problem recognising as having a small but very real undercurrent of antisemitism that they are failing to be able to speak about Palestine without stirring up.
As regards which side are you on, we all know why he's doing it but that is nothing close to an excuse. If you think its not a binary choice between being complicit in accepting blatant and unapologetic racism from the POTUS and the damage he is doing to civil society not just in the US but here in Ireland and across Europe by making his behaviour a norm then you are just wrong and need urgently to get out and talk to some of the people who are living at the pointy end about whether they think his behaviour is having any effect on their day to day lives.Turning millions into thousands
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View PostThat's exactly what you are implying.
I quote: "I (sic) just capable of recognising what he's saying..."
I'm not sure why you even bother engaging with people like us, who operate on a much lower level of consciousness - no matter how carefully you explain we aren't going to get it. Perhaps if you used a diagram with a nice big font we might understand the very subtle difference between being a racist and defending racist rhetoric."I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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Originally posted by Dice75 View PostWas watching an old episode of The Bill earlier and had forgotton how much AndyFB looks like Ken Drummond.
Sorry for the random thoughts.
Ken Drummond was a character in The Bill from 2002 until 2005. Ken arrives at Sun Hill, shortly after the events of the 2002 fire. Standing out amongst all the officers of CID, Ken's trademark atire usually consists of a tropical-themed Hawaiian shirt. Ken is the man who you would always see with his feet up on the desk; while some might call his style of policing "relaxed", a more appropriate term would be "lazy". His domestic life exhausts him; Ken has children spanning almost a generation, wi
Cause of Death: Explosion"I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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Originally posted by Lao Lao View PostEvery Israeli I've met (and there have been a few) has been an absolute cunt of the highest order.
Does that make me anti semitic?"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostI think a line was been crossed last weekend.
Said by someone like Pelosi. Keep the 'squad' confined to their training wheels for now."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Lao Lao View PostEvery Israeli I've met (and there have been a few) has been an absolute cunt of the highest order.
Does that make me anti semitic?This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
I'm still at a loss to understand which bits are the problemThis may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Originally posted by Lao Lao View PostEvery Israeli I've met (and there have been a few) has been an absolute cunt of the highest order.
Does that make me anti semitic?
Extremely welcoming, very helpful and just generally all round a smart group of people.
Perhaps knowing someone professionally and personally is different but I have found them nothing but nice people tbh.
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I've encountered a very small sample of Israeli's over the course of my life, but the experience has always been overwhelmingly negative, I drew a lot of comparison to some Afrikaner Saffers that I met/played rugby with.
I felt like there was an element of thuggishness about them, a nasty streak if you will. The Israeli's certainly had a superiority complex, but I suppose what can you expect from a group of people who have been told that they are God's chosen people
I do think that they have some stunningly beautiful women though.Double-decker bus enthusiast
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostHeard that a lot. By contrast every Muslim I've met (work with so many) has been amazing. Like absolute salt of the earth.
Are they 'cunts' (as you've heard that a lot) or 'amazing'? Square that circle."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Theresa View PostSame experience here. And I think we prob had the same locations for our experiences too. Maybe its SE Asia, and not actual Israelis."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Lao Lao View PostEvery Israeli I've met (and there have been a few) has been an absolute cunt of the highest order.
Does that make me anti semitic?
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Originally posted by mcnugget View PostSeeing as we're playing the 'make massive national stereotype based on a tiny sample size' game, every white South African I've met has been overbearing, arrogant and obnoxious.
Hens teeth imo.This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Originally posted by RichieM View PostHe only sees the colour of money
We thought George W. was bad with his line of being either with us or against us on the war on terror relating to international action. Trump has reduced this to being either with him or against him relating to his ego.
Trump saying the most hurtful things he can to people he narcissistically rages against in his viewing them as against him is then the personal equivalent to Bush's international wars.
But I'm mixing two points here. The first is that I don't believe Trump truly sees and has fixed views on groups of people. He is a sociopath as Tony Schwartz, who ghost wrote The Art of the Deal and spent 18 months with him, has said. He told how everyone was in a binary category of either being the greatest or a complete low life loser with him.
If you're in the latter due to offending his ego or getting in the way then he will bully and insult them in the most hurtful way possible. That is actually more regressive than being a racist, misogynist, homophobe etc.
But here's the thing, and my second point. Because the guy, whilst being truly a terrible example of a human being, is so entirely self-centred then his not really being orientated to or identifying with groups of other people will disincline him from international military action.
He is personally dreadful, an unfortunate (and I think accidental) figure at this point in history with ring wing populism / illiberal democracy, but he isn't actively promoting or waging wars killing hundreds of thousands of people.
If we could just stop hand wringing, worried that his behaviour is ushering in a culture of us all turning into horrible pricks, we could just view him as exactly what he is, carry on being decent ourselves, and be glad he doesn't have the interest or attentional capacity to try to militarily reshape global politics.
Let him build a hotel on Mars instead.
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Originally posted by mcnugget View PostSeeing as we're playing the 'make massive national stereotype based on a tiny sample size' game, every white South African I've met has been overbearing, arrogant and obnoxious.Double-decker bus enthusiast
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Originally posted by mcnugget View PostSeeing as we're playing the 'make massive national stereotype based on a tiny sample size' game, every white South African I've met has been overbearing, arrogant and obnoxious.
Having been there about a hundred times and having met more South Africans than the rest of you combined, I feel confident in dismissing your opinion."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Rufio View PostAnecdotally, a lot of escorts (prostitutes) in Australia won't see any Irishmen as clients. Make of that what you will.
And for the avoidance of doubt, I've never tried to engage the services of an escort, I've never even been to Australia.This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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I had a negative view of Lebanese colleagues when I worked in the Middle East. But when you start to list those you think are mostly cnuts - Northern Irish, Jewish Israeli, White South African etc., you begin to see a pattern.
All things arise in dependence upon conditions. I guess living amidst such deep division, violence, distrust, and social trauma does not conduce to being sound to strangers.
Oh, and I used to be friendly with the Israeli National Team of a game I used to play, and I liked them.Last edited by hotspur; 19-07-19, 17:02.
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Originally posted by hotspur View PostI had a negative view of Lebanese colleagues when I worked in the Middle East. But when you start to list those you think are mostly cnuts - Northern Irish, Jewish Israeli, White South African etc., you begin to see a pattern.
All things arise in dependence upon conditions. I guess living amidst such deep division, violence, distrust, and social trauma does not conduce to being sound to strangers.
Oh, and I used to be friendly with the Israeli National Team of a game I used to play, and I liked them."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostDon't have an opinion of them.
Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostHeard that a lot. By contrast every Muslim I've met (work with so many) has been amazing. Like absolute salt of the earth.Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Posthe politics of Israel, voted by the 80% majority, is awful.
I love Jewish people fwiw. Just don't like Israel and all the genocidal things it does."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostThe stat I most love is that 80% of Jewish people in America would vote to give themselves a tax increase in order to help raise social payments for everyone else. Hence why they almost all vote Democrat.
How cool is that?
But that's highly separate to what horrific things Israelis do on a daily basis
You see the path your ill-informed generalisations lead you down. Being caught in your own logic trap is not a good place."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostDon't have an opinion of them. The politics of Israel, voted by the 80% majority, is awful.
I love Jewish people fwiw. Just don't like Israel and all the genocidal things it does.
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostCountdown to Raoul posting stats of how much American Jewish people love the existence of Israel (obv), not how much they support Israeli government policy.
You might remember when Obama tried giving Israeli policy a bit of a mild reset. Didn't fly. The pro-Irael lobby went nuts."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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