Absolutely massive that someone like Richard Bruton has come out with this imo. Surely would have been seen as political suicide even a couple of weeks ago. I never fully agreed with Lazares optimistic timeline for change but this is a big positive, lets see what sort of decrease there is in baptisims, will have a knock on effect for secondary education down the line.
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Originally posted by jack90210 View PostYes but they have already stated this won't be the case https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Ev...R18-05-09.html
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Originally posted by bohsman View PostAbsolutely. Public schools free of religion. Private schools can apply for public funding and be judged on how good their local TD is no matter what man in the sky they use to try to control people with."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Silver-Tiger View PostThere's the Co-ordinates on Maps / Streetview.
Jesus it really was in the middle of nowhere. Some walk on a dark night.
51.529523, -9.676144
(Fooking bookmarks. Too lazy to get rid of them now).Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally posted by Denny Crane View PostDid he not come out about this before? Or was it Labour? He has a reasonably safe constituency for that kind of announcement either way anyway
I think the bigger fight than self entitled parents will be the problem of the church owning half of the land around the country.
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Originally posted by jack90210 View PostSo you think Catholic schools should have the same amount of religious schools as other religions even though according to the 2016 census 78% of the Irish population are Catholics?
I would say the % of actual devout catholics, people who follow church teaching fully is in the low single digits.I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by Lazare View PostIronically that's because of forced baptism. The recent referendum is a more accurate depiction of catholicism in Ireland.
I would say the % of actual devout catholics, people who follow church teaching fully is in the low single digits.
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Originally posted by jack90210 View PostSo people didn't state that only 2 years ago by their own free will when they had the option to enter no religion or a different religion?I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by jack90210 View PostWill Protestant, Jewish and Islamic schools be treated the same or just Catholic schools?
I doubt there are many kids in Islamic primary schools due to lack of other options. This isn't the issue but you know that already.
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Originally posted by darwinatemyhamster View PostPersonally I'd be all for these schools to continue receiving public funding.
I doubt there are many kids in Islamic primary schools due to lack of other options. This isn't the issue but you know that already.
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Originally posted by jack90210 View PostHow is that equality? Like why is one religion discriminated against?
The obvious issue here is with Catholic schools, again obvious.
As I said I'd be for minority religions to get a pass for now.
The issue is clearly with the Catholic church run schools forcing their inherited archaic indoctrination of Irish children.
Thankfully the wheels are in motion and I believe and hope there's no stopping them now.
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Originally posted by bohsman View PostAbsolutely massive that someone like Richard Bruton has come out with this imo. Surely would have been seen as political suicide even a couple of weeks ago. I never fully agreed with Lazares optimistic timeline for change but this is a big positive, lets see what sort of decrease there is in baptisims, will have a knock on effect for secondary education down the line.
It's not just him though, there are all sorts of politicians and media types calling for full separation since Saturday. It's glorious.
Hearing bishop Kevin Doran on Sean O'Rourke complain about now being a minority was very very satisfying.I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostThis is hilarious if you can get through the cringe factor.
Kay Burley : we should do one of the last debates allowed before the ban on campaigning kicks it
Producer : Great idea Kay, We'll get right on it
*****
Producer : I need you to get me two people, one from each side of the debate due to bloody Irish law. Everything is about equality since they voted for the gays to marry.
Junior Researcher (more than likely an intern) : Eh, ok, I'll get right onto it.
Producer: And get me a coffee, this one is cold
*Some time later*
Junior Researcher: Ok, so I have Colm O'Gorman from Amnesty Intl.
Producer : Great, excellent stuff
Junior Researcher : but...
Producer : but, what? Spit it out
Junior Researcher : I'm struggling to find anybody from the no side willing to debate
Producer: Jesus Christ, I thought you millennials knew how to work social media, surely you can find one person who has tweeted/posted something anti abortion?
Junior Researcher: well, there is one person but...
Producer: But, what? We're almost out of time. Are they anti abortion and are they willing to do a debate?
Junior Researcher: well, yes...
Producer : well, then, get them down here asap. *Turns to Kay Burley* I sometimes worry about this generation, I really do...
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Originally posted by jack90210 View PostHow is that equality? Like why is one religion discriminated against?
1. 95% of schools are Catholic. So if a Catholic parent wants a Catholic child to go to a Catholic ethos school then they can do so.
2. It's not as easy to guarantee that for Jewish, Islamic, Hindi etc. so the faith criteria remains for those schools to ensure that children of those faiths can, just like the children of Catholic families, access a school with their religious ethos.
3. The rules only apply to over-subscribed schools. Mostly in cities. Schools that are not over-subscribed have to take every applicant anyway.
Schools that are over-subscribed have been using religion to refuse a child who lives down the road in favour of one who lives in the next town a few miles away. That rule is discriminatory against children of one faith over another. So, I might be forced to ask:
Originally posted by jack90210 View PostHow is that equality? Like why is one religion discriminated against?You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by jack90210 View PostFor now.
Legislation can change when circumstances change.
Mind. Blown.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Kayroo View PostI’m gonna blow your mind here Jack. This is revolutionary stuff. You ready?
Legislation can change when circumstances change.
Mind. Blown.
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Originally posted by jack90210 View PostI can see the logic of religious schools not been publicly funded but object to it if it just discriminates against Catholic schools it is the equality position.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Kayroo View PostDid I miss something about school funding? I know it somehow got mixed up in the announcement about changes to the law on admissions policies but the government haven’t announced a funding change to schools that I missed have they?
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Originally posted by jack90210 View PostYou know what point I am making Jewish, Islamic, Protestant schools shouldn't be able to discriminate on entry and if Catholic can't.
The problem is you are coming at it from the wrong angle. If Catholics gave up their near-monopoly on school patronage and had as few schools as the other faiths proportionately then they could discriminate because, as Lazare said, every kid would have access to their local school anyway.
However, when you’re basically the only show in most towns then allowing you that same discrimination has the reverse effect. It causes disproportionate harm to innocent children who cannot access their local school based on religious grounds.
This proposal balances the rights of all the faiths. It doesn’t remove religious ethos or teaching from catholic schools, meaning Catholics can still access catholic education easily (90% of primary schools are Catholic) but it does stop non-religious families in the catchment of oversubscribed schools (20% of primary schools) from being horribly disadvantaged in admission criteria.
That is a proportionate and reasonable approach to the issue. It ensures equality of opportunity and admission for the children. Which is kind of the whole point.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Kayroo View PostSorry I see your point now.
The problem is you are coming at it from the wrong angle. If Catholics gave up their near-monopoly on school patronage and had as few schools as the other faiths proportionately then they could discriminate because, as Lazare said, every kid would have access to their local school anyway.
However, when you’re basically the only show in most towns then allowing you that same discrimination has the reverse effect. It causes disproportionate harm to innocent children who cannot access their local school based on religious grounds.
This proposal balances the rights of all the faiths. It doesn’t remove religious ethos or teaching from catholic schools, meaning Catholics can still access catholic education easily (90% of primary schools are Catholic) but it does stop non-religious families in the catchment of oversubscribed schools (20% of primary schools) from being horribly disadvantaged in admission criteria.
That is a proportionate and reasonable approach to the issue. It ensures equality of opportunity and admission for the children. Which is kind of the whole point.
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Originally posted by jack90210 View PostBut a Catholic child could be denied access to a Catholic school whereas a Jewish child will never be denied access to a Jewish school even taking account of the difference in numbers this isn't fair treatment or equality.
I agree with you that it should be fair and equal for all regardless of religion. No (major) religion should be discriminated against.
State schools should be non denominal. Or when they have a religious patron, they should not be allowed to use religion as an admission factor. This applies to catholic state schools and jewish state schools to the same degree.
Private Catholic Schools are free to use religion or any factors in admissions.
Jewish Catholic Schools are also allowed religion or any factors in admissions.
The above applies regardless of whether a private school (of any denomination) receives funding.
Does any of that appear to be unequal treatment of anyone?
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Originally posted by Denny Crane View PostJaysus, it's like watching a drunk argue with someone.
"97% of babies who are aborted have been proven in statistics as discussed on RTE"
Where is the rest of that sentence?
"Women are 6 more times likely to commit suicide"...ignoring that the words in the wrong order. That statistic is just incorrect. Suicide rates in men are considerable higher.
Is this satire?
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Originally posted by Mellor View PostIt's like reading one of those nonsensical copy and paste replies from online forums.
"97% of babies who are aborted have been proven in statistics as discussed on RTE"
Where is the rest of that sentence?
"Women are 6 more times likely to commit suicide"...ignoring that the words in the wrong order. That statistic is just incorrect. Suicide rates in men are considerable higher.
Is this satire?
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Jack, you mention the 78% figure in the Census knowing that it is a bullshit indicator but l will let you have that one.
My question is, as a devout catholic yourself, do you really want babies to be baptised for the sake of getting into schools? Would you call them catholics because they had some water poured on them? If that child never believes in god or goes to church are they still a catholic in your eyes?
I agree all religions should have equal funding, be that Jewish, Muslim or catholic.
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Originally posted by eoghan104 View PostJack, you mention the 78% figure in the Census knowing that it is a bullshit indicator but l will let you have that one.
My question is, as a devout catholic yourself, do you really want babies to be baptised for the sake of getting into schools? Would you call them catholics because they had some water poured on them? If that child never believes in god or goes to church are they still a catholic in your eyes?
I agree all religions should have equal funding, be that Jewish, Muslim or catholic.
Equal funding no, proportionate funding yes if there is any funding at all.
Mellor that would seem fair but they aren't doing that, the Bill explicitly protects minority religion at the expense of another.
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Can't really see any valid reason for the state to support religious indoctrination.
People are free to choose their religion
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Originally posted by jack90210 View PostI can see the logic of religious schools not been publicly funded but object to it if it just discriminates against Catholic schools it is the equality position.
Teaching about all religions is worthwhile I guess but i am not overly sure. it should be under an ethics class not a world religions class imo and you can teach a lot of other areas in terms of democratic structures, the always topical consent and a whole load of other good lessons on how not to be a dick.
I find all religious instruction during school hours pointless when an extra maths class would be more useful.
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Originally posted by Denny Crane View PostCan't really see any valid reason for the state to support religious indoctrination.
Very few do though. Since most people inherit it, or take it from their surroundings, if anything schools should be completely secular, so that people can actually make a conscious choice.
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Originally posted by Denny Crane View PostCan't really see any valid reason for the state to support religious indoctrination.
Very few do though. Since most people inherit it, or take it from their surroundings, if anything schools should be completely secular, so that people can actually make a conscious choice.
Not really on board with kids being put into private schools where they can be taught any old guff even when the state is not footing the bill tbh.
Kids surely have a right to a certain standard of education based on latest and greatest methods and evidence. A right not to be indoctrinated as a small child would also seem something that ought to exist, I dunno.
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Originally posted by jack90210 View PostThen you would agree the State shouldn't be allowing minority religions to discriminate?
As Kayroo explained this rule will make sure kids of all faiths can get into schools with matching ethoses (ethea?), besides children of no religion who will continue to have to put up with denominational education.
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Originally posted by ArmaniJeans View PostI switched off soccer (and in particular the boards.ie forum) roughly .2 of a second after Karius's second goal for Madrid on Saturday.
Looking at the forum now and the feedback thread it seems to have gone especially mental and poisonous in the hours after that game.No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.
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Originally posted by jack90210 View PostI wouldn't say devout just follow the ethos of it I saw it referred to as a cultural Catholic. People are free to choose their religion and at the last independent free to answer survey most people still are.
Equal funding no, proportionate funding yes if there is any funding at all.
Mellor that would seem fair but they aren't doing that, the Bill explicitly protects minority religion at the expense of another.
To be honest I would have more respect for full on religous lunatics. Half doing it seems a waste of time.
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Originally posted by eoghan104 View PostI am dissapointed to hear you are a "Cultural Catholic". What does that mean? If you don't want to answer that's cool but do you believe in God? Go to mass? pray regularly?
To be honest I would have more respect for full on religous lunatics. Half doing it seems a waste of time.airport, lol
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Originally posted by eoghan104 View PostTo be honest I would have more respect for full on religous lunatics. Half doing it seems a waste of time.
Years ago catholics couldn't eat meat any Friday then it was like ah good Friday and ash wednesday will do. Who did the big man send down with the message?airport, lol
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Originally posted by bohsman View PostLast 2 referendum results would tell me that 78% cant even call themselves cultural catholics. A person that doesnt believe in a god and only enters a church for the big occasions cant even be considered a cultural catholic surely.
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Originally posted by eamonhonda View PostAll catholics do it half arsed, make it up as they go along, pick and choose which rules to obey.?
It is a cruel and dangerous thing to do and should be reserved only for those who deserve it. Very many individuals are better off living under the comfort blanket of religion, sometimes I think we all kind of envy their certaintyTurning millions into thousands
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Originally posted by Silver-Tiger View PostWith the nice forecast i was gonna head to Bloom for day in the sun over the weekend.
€25 in! What do you get for that? Anyone ever been?
You dont get much for your 25, but there are a shitload of samples and free knick knacks floating around.
My wife is there with her dad at the moment and is sending me pics of food/drink all day (the wagon)People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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