Originally posted by V for Vendetta
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Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.
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This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Originally posted by Denny Crane View PostNot guilty doesn't mean innocent and falsely accused.
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Originally posted by Lazare View PostIt seems to be missed that I've stated I don't think either party is lying.
Do you think she's lying?
Possibly the people who come out of this the very worst are the CPS and various top brass in the PSNI. Belfast legal fraternity has all the gory details and it is not good at all."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Guest
Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostWhen you put it like that it sounds fairly sweet! Do teachers in Ireland really only work all-in 30 hours a week? Was sharing a house with a teacher and England and he had shocking amounts of work to do each week - easily 50-60 hours. Don't think people should have to work that amount of hours as it's not healthy, but surprised there's such a difference between UK and Irish workloads. They must not do the same level of outside class assessment and prep as in UK.
Funny one from NZ. Down there you open a new entrants class which is JR infant equivalent. You start with any kids who turned five during the summer hols. Kids start school on their 5th bday irrespective of what point they turn five during the year. Crazy system. She started with 12 and ended up with 25+.
Better explained below here:
SPOILERChildren starting school as new entrants
Most children in New Zealand start primary school on their fifth birthday. All children must be enrolled by the age of six. Children starting school for the first time are called ‘new entrants’.
Some schools let new entrants start school at any time throughout the school year, either on their fifth birthday or on another date that suits the family.
Other schools use a system called ‘Cohort entry’, meaning children start school in groups at the beginning of each school term. You still have the option of not starting your child in school until their sixth birthday, regardless of whether or not the school they enrol in uses cohort entry.
You will need to find out which system your child’s school uses.
Which school year will your child be enrolled in?
When your child starts primary school they will be enrolled in either Year 0 or Year 1, depending on which half of the year they start in. If your child starts school in the first half of the calendar year, they will start in Year 1. If they start school in the second half of the calendar year, they will start in Year 0 and the following year will be in Year 1.
On the hours, I was talking contact hours is generally 9-3Last edited by Guest; 28-03-18, 20:49.
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostWhen you put it like that it sounds fairly sweet! Do teachers in Ireland really only work all-in 30 hours a week? Was sharing a house with a teacher and England and he had shocking amounts of work to do each week - easily 50-60 hours. Don't think people should have to work that amount of hours as it's not healthy, but surprised there's such a difference between UK and Irish workloads. They must not do the same level of outside class assessment and prep as in UK.
I've a few friends that are teachers, the organised ones can get away with 2 hours "homework" and turn up at 8am instead of 9 to prepare. The ones that tell you they work all the crazy hours usually leave everything until last minute
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Originally posted by Emmet View PostBasing this on their texts I assume?
I'd advise you never ever ever to check any of your children's whatsapp groups. You might have to disown them.
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Originally posted by Emmet View PostBasing this on their texts I assume?
I'd advise you never ever ever to check any of your children's whatsapp groups. You might have to disown them.
Watching the coverage with two daughters the more feminist one is visiting and had no knowledge of the trial and would be of much the same mind as me on consent but the other one who I used to slag as being a Rugger Hugger type is very unsympathetic to the girl and reckons she just changed her mind and panicked.Turning millions into thousands
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Originally posted by 5starpool View PostIt isn't really. In the private sector people can negotiate their own wages to a large extent, and move job to a different company that pays more if they are able to secure such a job. Teachers can't. The whole idea of paying people who graduated one year and subsequent years less than those that came before them was utterly flawed, and the unions were complicit in it. Any of those cuts should have come across the board from the higher levels down to grads inclusive, not just focus on one area of them.
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostUsing the word innocent about any of that gang of lowlife scum is just wrong."Gibney might be the greatest hero of our time." (Keane, 2012; Hitchhiker, 2017)
"Frank Gibney, he's my favourite ." (careca, 2012)
"Frank Gibney, he's my favourite." (mikeb, 2017)
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Worth noting that the vast majority of new entrants don't start on a full contact. It's typically 11 hours at second level so 36/2. There is a lot of teachers with 5+ years experience still on a half contact.
As a secondary school teacher (old pay scale) I do think it's important that the new pay scale is fully abolished. There was significant rowback after Lansdowne Road 2 last year so the 36k hitch is referring to doesn't tell the full story. I looked at the numbers prior to that and I saw that i was pulling 50.5k with allowances after 7 years but that it would take a post 2011 graduate 28 years to earn the same. What 24 year old is going to choose to go into a profession where they are almost guaranteed to be in their mid fifties before they are earning 50k?? There is little dount the standard of teacher would massively deteriorate.
Fwiw I am in school from 8-4 each day and do an average of 6 hours p/w outside of that. I also don't live in Dublin so I have a similar lifestyle as Brady's friends (have a child though so moar crèche fees and less holidays).
Absolutely no idea why/ how you would bother teaching if you lived in Dublin.
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Postnot a chance !
Watching the coverage with two daughters the more feminist one is visiting and had no knowledge of the trial and would be of much the same mind as me on consent but the other one who I used to slag as being a Rugger Hugger type is very unsympathetic to the girl and reckons she just changed her mind and panicked.Originally posted by Denny Crane View PostI've seen a bunch of comments like this on Twitter. Pretty grim if that's so normal.
The bullshit brash bravado 'lads' banter stuff that plenty of people throw around in the privacy of their own group of friends looks absolutely and utterly poisonous in a different light.
I don't for a second think they're a great bunch of lads, but feel very awkward at the idea that their nonsense is taken as an indication of their character given the absolute rubbish I've written myself previously.
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Originally posted by jack90210 View PostNo he was convicted by the court and sentenced so it's fairly cut and dry in that case.
Was he innocent and falsely accused in the initial case?
Edit, fuck this, what Sham says below.Last edited by Lazare; 28-03-18, 21:36.I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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Originally posted by Emmet View PostThe bullshit brash bravado 'lads' banter stuff that plenty of people throw around in the privacy of their own group of friends looks absolutely and utterly poisonous in a different light.
I get that many of this generation who have grown up in a world of ubiquitous porn have an extraordinarily distorted view of sexual relationships but that doesn't excuse anything.Turning millions into thousands
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I've tried to post/respond so many times re the trial but I can't articulate what I think/keep half changing my mind.
It's grim. Like really fucking grim. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks that the 'lads' are fully exonerated here but it's clear enough to see how they couldn't be convicted. Feel genuinely sorry for the girl. Disagree with RD re her losing control of the narrative etc. IMO she woke up and fully believed she had been raped. Similarly I believe that the 'lads' woke up fully believing they had done nothing wrong but had had an unreal night going to town on some young one. Reconcile.
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostBut it wasn't just banter, they did all the stuff they talked about. It did not meet the standards required for a rape conviction but what they admitted to be is rapey enough for me to consider them rapists.
I get that many of this generation who have grown up in a world of ubiquitous porn have an extraordinarily distorted view of sexual relationships but that doesn't excuse anything.
Jaysis. Perhaps you might want to not absolutely destroy the use of the word and trivialise it beyond belief?
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostYikes on the first point! Didn't realise it was that extreme.
On the second point: all the teachers unions are against a Dublin loading. Seems to me that makes a huge amount of sense. It's the only reason they can barely scrape by with enough teachers in London.
Don't get that either. There absolutely should be. Wife earns around the same as me (not teaching) and we are comfortable where we are but Dublin is a completely different ball game.
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Originally posted by Denny Crane View PostHow people talk in private is probably the best reflection of their actual viewpoint
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Guest
On your point Shano about the quality of teacher decreasing. I don't think that will be an issue for a while. CAO points are still high 460 I think for Primary in Mary I so demand is still there.
Hibernia rattling out primary and secondary teachers from every discipline for 15k a pop.
I think it's pretty safe for the moment but I agree anyone with any foresight certainly has to consider the alternative unless they play county of course.
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Originally posted by brady23 View PostOn your point Shano about the quality of teacher decreasing. I don't think that will be an issue for a while. CAO points are still high 460 I think for Primary in Mary I so demand is still there.
Hibernia rattling out primary and secondary teachers from every discipline for 15k a pop.
I think it's pretty safe for the moment but I agree anyone with any foresight certainly has to consider the alternative unless they play county of course.
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Originally posted by Emmet View PostWhat did they admit to that was rapey enough that you can consider them rapists? Having group sex?
Jaysis. Perhaps you might want to not absolutely destroy the use of the word and trivialise it beyond belief?Turning millions into thousands
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Just to lighten the mood of some of this discussion
IF anyone fancies and nice film sort of about poker with no poker (to ruin it ) (bit like poker boards) and a great cast. Molly's Game is a lot better than i expected. Not sure what it would be like if it didn't have Jessica Chastain though.sigpic
Longshotvalue.com
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Do teaching standards even matter than much these day? If you don't understand something or it is badly explained you can get a myriad of resources online. I've no idea how much if at all teaching standards have declined but I'm pretty sure most students could teach themselves leaving cert courses online in a extremely efficient manner. I'd be surprised if you can't sign up to some group grind courses online that absolutely dissect the courses to pieces to make them beatable for high points by any average student.
Opr
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It's a slight parallel but the same goes for sexual activity and whats now considered normal, a little off centre, or way out west in terms of sexual activity.
My point here is that the narrative that the complainant would never willingly put herself in a situation as she found herself in is far from cast iron
She got up the next morning and posted on Facebook about she just had one of the best nights of her lifeLast edited by Denny Crane; 28-03-18, 23:12.
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Someone who creates a decent consent app that goes tipping point mainstream is going to be a gazillionaire.Last edited by Closed_Account; 29-03-18, 01:08.
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Originally posted by Denny Crane View PostYeah I'm more open with people I'm closer to. Where did I suggest I wasn't?
As above the idea that we can infer stuff about the character of a person from a couple of their messages to the extent that SP can consider them rapists is wild stuff.Last edited by Emmet; 29-03-18, 05:08.
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostRubbish. Just one of a number of ways they cross the line for me: If you don't have explicit consent and are using drunkness as a defence against an accusation of sexual assault you are not innocent. IMO, that's an opinion, I'm not asking you to agree with it.
The defence was that all activity was consensual, and that the narrative of events given did not match what happened.
So what you are accusing them of admitting to, which allows you to consider them rapists, is in no way attached to what they have actually admitted to.
Consent (and the idea of explicit consent) is difficult, given that consent is flexible and people should always have the right to change their mind (obviously). It's a bit like the Homer Simpson 'everything is okay' alarm. How often should you check explicitly if what is going ok is fine?
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GAB the story about KPMG girl is missing important info, she messaged her friend on Facebook with details on her way home. Friend, without thinking, screenshot the messages (the girl had sent) and forwarded to a group, which forwarded to another etc etc.
When she woke up the day after, the truth and story were already way out of her control. She's grand now, but it was a life changer. Move jobs, country etc.
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Originally posted by Denny Crane View PostPrivate of course? I'm confused why you're disagreeing!
Etc
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Originally posted by Emmet View PostWhich of the private groups is what I meant. Family? Work? Girlfriend? 'Couples'? Lads you'd know from school? Lads you went on holidays with? That guy with dark humour who sends you 4chan links?
Etc
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I think the main thing about this case is the different prospectives of men and women.
Men struggle to identify with the victim, they're unlikely to suffer something of that nature. But they can see themselves getting falsely accused of something. There's also the cognitive dissonance in that it's much more comfortable to believe that this kinda thing doesn't really happen, and that she must be making it up. As I said before, is there any crime where so many people gravitate towards believing the accused must be innocent from the get-go?
For women an alarming number of them are victim of sexual assault in some form or another, and if not they certainly know someone close that is. They see a failed legal system where there's no point in reporting such a crime.
So many people reacting to the verdict now think the accused are the victims, that by being found not guilty that the girl must have made it up. That she reported it, went through all the examinations and interviews, was put through a public show trial and spent more time in the dock than the alleged offenders, for what? To tarnish the lads names? To save face cause she didn't want people to think she would consent to something like that? Do you really think in any way she's in a better position for having reported it? Or had any high expectation of getting a conviction? A significant amount of people who report rapes are advised not to continue with the complaint. And for good reason.
Most rapes are unreported. 2/3s of those that are are withdraw before court. Most of the cases that are pursued take 3-5 years and don't lead to convictions. The percentage of false accusations is estimated by the DPP to be in the single digits.
Ask yourself, why is it, that so much of the reaction is about how do stop these false accusations, instead of looking at all the victims?
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