Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[Charlie Sheen]

How do you think decision's were made in the past?

On a more pressing issue, how do we feel about a large bet on the Eagles to win?

I'm going to have a decent bet on them, they're not over reliant on any player.

- Great D
- Two big, good running backs to get those short first downs and run the clock, averaging 4.5 and 5.5 yards per carry this year.
- Good WR's
- Great TE
- Foles I think only needs to have an average game to win and limit the turnovers obviously!

Think the Pats will be doing their best to stop the run and make Foles complete passes. The Pats are the Pat's and have plenty of pro's too but I've talked myself into backing the Eagles. What bet I'll make I havn't decided yet.

[luckforsome]

On a more pressing issue, how do we feel about a large bet on the Eagles to win?

...A just as important question...What do IPB people normally do for super bowl night??
...Do they head out, or sit at home and fall asleep at the start of the 3rd quarter?...Was hoping to head out for it, plans changed so gonna be a lonely super bowl...

[Raoul Duke III]

Here is a profound Thought For The Day:

Opinions, like prices, are now being set at the margins. And the margins appear to be moving further apart.

[Hectorjelly]

...A just as important question...What do IPB people normally do for super bowl night??
...Do they head out, or sit at home and fall asleep at the start of the 3rd quarter?...Was hoping to head out for it, plans changed so gonna be a lonely super bowl...

I'm going to London to watch it in the hippodrome.

[luckforsome]

I'm going to London to watch it in the hippodrome.

...Shameless brag, even though I asked ...

[Solksjaer!]

Emmet has moved up levels in his debating eloquence . Your governess deserves much credit Emmet.

[Denny Crane]

...A just as important question...What do IPB people normally do for super bowl night??
...Do they head out, or sit at home and fall asleep at the start of the 3rd quarter?...Was hoping to head out for it, plans changed so gonna be a lonely super bowl...

Watched in a lock-in last year. Hadn't intended on it but got talking to a some yanks on holiday. Should be a few places in town showing it.

[Strewelpeter]

My exact point is that society is not waking up to anything. Society is choosing to shelter from the loudest.

I understand where you are coming from but I'm fairly sure this dystopian view is wrong, I do hope so.
I do believe that you could just as easily be making the same arguments about any social progress of the past and I also believe that the general phenomenon of , lets call it Petersonism, is not really about the social changes under scrutiny but about distaste for those taking the lead in arguing for them.

[Guest]

McSorleys are having a Super Bowl party. I planned to go but I'm moving my stuff home on Sunday.

[rounders123]

Commentary on this U-20's six nations is like the Olympic games!

[shrapnel]

Commentary on this U-20's six nations is like the Olympic games!

proper spanking to boot in the first half. Hopefully seniors do the same tomorrow

[ghostface]

...A just as important question...What do IPB people normally do for super bowl night??
...Do they head out, or sit at home and fall asleep at the start of the 3rd quarter?...Was hoping to head out for it, plans changed so gonna be a lonely super bowl...

Sit at home on own, shout loudly at tv and annoy neighbours, not as dedicated as Lurker to fly over and watch it 😔

[ArmaniJeans]

...A just as important question...What do IPB people normally do for super bowl night??
...Do they head out, or sit at home and fall asleep at the start of the 3rd quarter?...Was hoping to head out for it, plans changed so gonna be a lonely super bowl...

Far too stressful to watch with people who don't normally follow the sport, spend half the time explaining stuff.
So watch at home with a few beers, set it on record and only start watching about 12.30am, skip through all the ad breaks and have caught up live by midway through the fourth quarter.
Head to bed just after they present Bobby Kraft with the trophy.

[Tar.Aldarion]

Child abour was made illegal by legislature.

Perhaps, given you want to argue that it is not a legal effect you are arguing for, you should choose a better example?

If they were really serious about it then you wouldn't be wearing the clothes you are, using the products you do. More like they made it so it was outsourced.

I think there is problems on both sides, catering to a small subset of individuals could be fraught with wrong decisions that are the opposite of progress. Relying on Joe Soap to think about anything but himself and his own circumstances, or even the government alone to do anything can be disastrous too and at best interminable. Particularly when it's not in their own interest to do so. Loud groups serve a great purpose here, bringing about change where it is needed while people are languishing and the system is being lobbied.

There are certainly cases of companies improving due to public outrage. Iams pet food in 2002 faced backlash and had to change their animal testing practices. Somebody had to work undercover there to prove what was happening to the animals, they released videos and IAMS said "oh this goes against our policies and we won't work with that testing lab again" because they had to say that. Since then they've radically reformed what they do and now perform tests in a heavenly place compared to what was happening, with unannounced inspections with the ASPCA.

An example of what was happening:

• Dogs dumped on a cold concrete floor after having their vocal chords severed and huge chunks of muscle cut out of their thighs
• Dogs and cats gone stir-crazy from confinement in cramped steel-and-cement cells
• A coworker who instructed her to hit the dogs on the chest if they quit breathing
• Another coworker who talked about an Iams dog found dead in his cage, bleeding from his mouth
• Cruel studies done by Iams involving forcing tubes down dogs' throats to make them ingest vegetable oil
• Dogs with such severe tartar buildup on their teeth that it was painful for them to eat
• Coworkers who talked about a live kitten who had been washed down a drain Dogs left sweltering in scorching heat and shivering in bitter cold, and horribly sick dogs and cats languishing in their cages, neglected and left to suffer without veterinary care
• Coworkers who talked about how they had had to go home because the ammonia fumes in the animal trailers were so overpowering that it made their eyes burn (try being one of the animals in those cages!)

People may say oh well a lot of that isn't legal, well a lot (or all) of it is and a minority espousing outrage changed things. Now it is a world apart, hell the employees bring their own pets to work. A different example is a legal one involving the government. It was videos released of cruelty to animals that is commonplace in slaughterhouses in the US. People are prosecuted etc etc but then the government was lobbied by the meat industry and recording videos was made illegal. Without public outcry from a small amount of people that would still be illegal, but was reversed in 2017.

In general I'm not sure I'd trust the majority to be right, often a small amount of people are affected by something and speak up for change, that can be good or bad. The default of natural societal progression isn't all round better either, since a lot of factors hinder it, often on purpose.

[shrapnel]

proper spanking to boot in the first half. Hopefully seniors do the same tomorrow

Oh dear, looks like France are capitulating

[eamonhonda]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVJ9jq9HYmk

Objectification of men. Needs to be stopped

[Lazare]

Had a very strange synchronistic experience today, and an epiphany.

It was multi layered.

When so many people you respect vehemently disagree with an opinion you hold, you naturally question it.

I've been reading good challenging arguments over the last couple of days against my opinion and questioning myself, doubting myself. Thinking about it a lot.

Read Denny's link to that Listowel story and it brought back the fury I felt when I first read it. People consoled that rapist because 'she was asking for it'. But that was backwards catholic Ireland, that wasn't cosmopolitan, hip and trendy Dublin. We've moved on from that. My anger settled.

Called into an electrical wholesalers to get supplies for an Expo we're exhibiting at next week. Guy behind the counter was sound, so sound. Turned out he was doing the same Expo. He showed me what it was he was planning to exhibit, I talked about my stuff.

He sorted me out with the stuff I need, then put me in touch with an electrician that will help me out further on the set up day. Sound lad. Exactly the type of guy I could be mates with.

Asked me was I looking forward to the match tomorrow, chatted about rugby for a bit, me totally comfortable letting him know I knew very little, but loved the 6N.

"What do you think of the whole Paddy Jackson thing?' he asked.

Mad stuff I said.

"Thought it was a slam dunk myself" he says "Then I saw a picture of the girl on whatssapp, dunno now, ye know what I mean?"


She was asking for it, is what he meant.


This guy just casually said this to me. He didn't even realise it. He didn't mean anything bad by it.

This girl looked hot, had a pout, had a sexy body with sexy cleavage. This sound, one of me guys understood how it was possible she was raped.


Realised then that I don't need to doubt myself.

[jack90210]

The deep state hard at work in the USA. Pity that release of the memo wasn’t saved till around autumn 2020.

[Ed]

The deep state hard at work in the USA. Pity that release of the memo wasn’t saved till around autumn 2020.

This'd be the memo written by a member of Trump's transition team right?

Reckon Trump will release the Comey memos next?

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[dobby]

Took rigger for a kebab and a movie earlier. Saw the post and well worth a watch. Always nice to look after the elderly in the community. He even managed a lovely nap, bless him.

[luckforsome]

Took rigger for a kebab and a movie earlier. Saw the post and well worth a watch. Always nice to look after the elderly in the community. He even managed a lovely nap, bless him.

...Secretly jealous...

[CHDad]

Riding the arse off each other as I type this I bet.

[CHDad]

...Secretly jealous...

You thought the same obv.

[Frank Gibney]

Took rigger for a kebab and a movie earlier. Saw the post and well worth a watch. Always nice to look after the elderly in the community. He even managed a lovely nap, bless him.

We had a kebab, true and McDonalds for dessert. Then I bought him for his (first?) pint, then onto the movie (my shout again). Offered him popcorn, however, he said his tummy felt too full after all the food and icecreams.

A top eve.

[mdoug]

Doug update, backing and laying for good sweats.

NFL: Backed the saints for the superb owl and laid the vikings, many a good sweat was had!

NBA: Have Toronto Raptors at 110 on exchanges and going to lay either the cavs or rockets during playoffs.

World Cup: Going to be a fun fun sweat!
Have 2.5k on England to win the world cup at 21, going to go in again at 20 for maybe another 500.
I am going to make this the biggest bet of my life by laying France for €3001.

That is all.

Edit: Here is a Saturday treat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO_BnsrWMnI

[CHDad]

Doug update, backing and laying for good sweats.

NFL: Backed the saints for the superb owl and laid the vikings, many a good sweat was had!

NBA: Have Toronto Raptors at 110 on exchanges and going to lay either the cavs or rockets during playoffs.

World Cup: Going to be a fun fun sweat!
Have 2.5k on England to win the world cup at 21, going to go in again at 20 for maybe another 500.
I am going to make this the biggest bet of my life by laying France for €3001.

That is all.

Edit: Here is a Saturday treat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO_BnsrWMnI

I like how you had to post just after dobby and lottie posted about their date.

IPBs first love triangle.

[Hectorjelly]

Something to bear in mind whilst watching the superbowl...https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/02/o...in-damage.html

[mdoug]

I like how you had to post just after dobby and lottie posted about their date.

IPBs first love triangle.

I only come on here in nights of insomnia now m8 tbh, no casual reading for me anymore. How's the job?

[Raoul Duke III]

Van der Flier first try scorer and Ireland to win by 31-40 points.

[Emmet]

If they were really serious about it then you wouldn't be wearing the clothes you are, using the products you do. More like they made it so it was outsourced.

I think there is problems on both sides, catering to a small subset of individuals could be fraught with wrong decisions that are the opposite of progress. Relying on Joe Soap to think about anything but himself and his own circumstances, or even the government alone to do anything can be disastrous too and at best interminable. Particularly when it's not in their own interest to do so. Loud groups serve a great purpose here, bringing about change where it is needed while people are languishing and the system is being lobbied.

There are certainly cases of companies improving due to public outrage. Iams pet food in 2002 faced backlash and had to change their animal testing practices. Somebody had to work undercover there to prove what was happening to the animals, they released videos and IAMS said "oh this goes against our policies and we won't work with that testing lab again" because they had to say that. Since then they've radically reformed what they do and now perform tests in a heavenly place compared to what was happening, with unannounced inspections with the ASPCA.

An example of what was happening:



People may say oh well a lot of that isn't legal, well a lot (or all) of it is and a minority espousing outrage changed things. Now it is a world apart, hell the employees bring their own pets to work. A different example is a legal one involving the government. It was videos released of cruelty to animals that is commonplace in slaughterhouses in the US. People are prosecuted etc etc but then the government was lobbied by the meat industry and recording videos was made illegal. Without public outcry from a small amount of people that would still be illegal, but was reversed in 2017.

In general I'm not sure I'd trust the majority to be right, often a small amount of people are affected by something and speak up for change, that can be good or bad. The default of natural societal progression isn't all round better either, since a lot of factors hinder it, often on purpose.

At no stage have I said it won't work. Not once. In fact I highlighted that in a results only appreciation of the situation both approaches appear to have similar effects.

The child ate the carrot in both circumstances.

Now remove the parent when the child grows a bit. Which of the two systems of getting the child to eat the carrot 'sticks'?

It's a straightforward argument against a central authority I am making. Enabling individual agency and educating people in an effort to agree with you by challenging their held beliefs results in a far more effective and lasting social change imo. Small minorities dictating rules that others must live by, without any recourse or rational ability to challenge them, leads to very strange places imo.

You also counter your own argument very well by remarking that the practices were illegal. We have a rule of law in modern society. That is the manner we accept which compels behaviour. What we do not have, and what I would utterly hate, would be a rule of morals.

I can cede liberty to rational, majority held opinions and the collective good. These are what (should) influence lawmakers. I pretty much refuse to cede personal liberty to moralists.

Let's recall of course, as I have before, that Puritans in the past were homophobic, transphobic, racist xenophobes. Would you be happy to live under their rules? Me, not so much.

We should be careful about who or what we cede our liberty to, and consider not who the person or actor is, but who they could be. (America gave Obama powers that Trump now has....)

[Emmet]

Also really hope today is not one of those nervy knife edge games and we just run away with it like we should.

[shrapnel]

Van der Flier first try scorer and Ireland to win by 31-40 points.

Vakatawa first try scorer and GFYRD3

[Emmet]

I am on my phone HJ so can't easily find and quote the post, but re:decisions in the past, let's control for wars and communication abilities and let's consider that we don't really have any good empirical data that we can deem relevant.

Each and every stage in communication technology growth has had a marked effect on society. I'm pretty confident we're in a paradigm that has no real comparisons available.

The appeal to tradition (what have we done before should be what we continue to do) is a logical fallacy on its own, and indeed I don't think it applies in this case anyway.

[jack90210]

Free abortions up to 12 weeks doesn't have enough support in the Dail to pass according to the news!

[Lao Lao]

World Cup: Going to be a fun fun sweat!
Have 2.5k on England to win the world cup at 21, going to go in again at 20 for maybe another 500.

Don't mean this to sound smart but do you just not like money or what's the story here?

[Emmet]

Don't mean this to sound smart but do you just not like money or what's the story here?

Maybe one of the sickest emotional hedges going?

[Guest]

Doug update, backing and laying for good sweats.

NBA: Have Toronto Raptors at 110 on exchanges and going to lay either the cavs or rockets during playoffs.
]

Certainly some value at 110s on the Raptors but they're not getting out of the East imo. Definitely some value on laying Cavs for the championship as I think there are 3 teams capable of beating them from the West.

As it stands the Bucks would be my outside pick from the East now at 20s. Stylistically they are made for post season and conversely the Raptors offense is not suited to post season. The best example would be DeRozan's advanced stats in the regular season vs the post season.

Warriors should win the championship in 18-19 games

[Tar.Aldarion]

At no stage have I said it won't work. Not once. In fact I highlighted that in a results only appreciation of the situation both approaches appear to have similar effects.

The child ate the carrot in both circumstances.

Now remove the parent when the child grows a bit. Which of the two systems of getting the child to eat the carrot 'sticks'?

It's a straightforward argument against a central authority I am making. Enabling individual agency and educating people in an effort to agree with you by challenging their held beliefs results in a far more effective and lasting social change imo. Small minorities dictating rules that others must live by, without any recourse or rational ability to challenge them, leads to very strange places imo.

You also counter your own argument very well by remarking that the practices were illegal. We have a rule of law in modern society. That is the manner we accept which compels behaviour. What we do not have, and what I would utterly hate, would be a rule of morals.

I can cede liberty to rational, majority held opinions and the collective good. These are what (should) influence lawmakers. I pretty much refuse to cede personal liberty to moralists.

Let's recall of course, as I have before, that Puritans in the past were homophobic, transphobic, racist xenophobes. Would you be happy to live under their rules? Me, not so much.

We should be careful about who or what we cede our liberty to, and consider not who the person or actor is, but who they could be. (America gave Obama powers that Trump now has....)

I'm just out on my phone so can't really reply but my whole point was that a lot of those things are legal (you read it wrong) and if it were a different animal more of them are, tests like that or worse are often mandatory. The point was they were unnecessary and the government would not do anything about it, the point of the lobbying example is that in fact they would do the opposite and bring the rule of law to bear against progress due to corruption. All the makers of the rule of law are concerned about is staying in power. We are both arguing against the same thing there. However these people have a big sway over the masses. It's often in their best interest for the masses to not be educated and to play along.

I agree with your point in general of course, one method is far better than the other but it is just Nirvana Fallacy to argue against the worse option for the forseeable future.

[Keane]

It's a straightforward argument against a central authority I am making. Enabling individual agency and educating people in an effort to agree with you by challenging their held beliefs results in a far more effective and lasting social change imo. Small minorities dictating rules that others must live by, without any recourse or rational ability to challenge them, leads to very strange places imo.

Can I just query what central authority you are talking about here?

[Frank Gibney]

I like how you had to post just after dobby and lottie posted about their date.

IPBs first love triangle.

Don't get jelly m8, you're still #1

[Flushdraw]

Don't mean this to sound smart but do you just not like money or what's the story here?

Well he's freerolling the bet unless France win, so that's his plan.

[Lao Lao]

Well he's freerolling the bet unless France win, so that's his plan.

True. If neither of the two win the world cup that would give him a profit of €1 if he goes back in for an additional 500 on England?

If I had to pick between the two, I'd have France way ahead of England in terms of chance of winning so if that is the strategy it's even stranger to me.

Just seems like an awful lot of exposure to me for very little likely return.

[Emmet]

Can I just query what central authority you are talking about here?

It's a general argument.

When applied specifically to the original discussion the authority becomes the outrage merchants. You and I are being asked to defer to their authority before acting.

[Flushdraw]

True. If neither of the two win the world cup that would give him a profit of €1 if he goes back in for an additional 500 on England?

If I had to pick between the two, I'd have France way ahead of England in terms of chance of winning so if that is the strategy it's even stranger to me.

Just seems like an awful lot of exposure to me for very little likely return.

mdoug has been known to like a gamble. He doesn't need a logical reason

[Solksjaer!]

World cup is wide open this year . We know the Germans don't travel well in Russia. South American teams won't fancy it. France could well do it but I'm prepared to go for a crazy outsider as I've a hunch it's gonna be a mad one altogether Ted.
Speaking of France.
In rugby. Is this the shortest price Ireland has been EVER going to France.

[ionapaul]

I've so many bets on for interest, I easily get caught up in the excitement of a Six Nations weekend. All the 'bigger' ones (lol, like a few €10 doubles) fall at the first hurdle if Scotland lose

Cannot wait for the Ireland game to get underway!

[Keane]

It's a general argument.

When applied specifically to the original discussion the authority becomes the outrage merchants. You and I are being asked to defer to their authority before acting.

I think that's a fairly hysterical interpretation of what's happening tbh.

I find the notion of a central authority of outraged people on twitter laughable. As I said the other day, if F1/darts had any financial skin in keeping walk on girls the idea that radical feminists on twitter would get them to change is just beyond belief.

If the zeitgeist in the general population shifts on a topic along these lines, that's a different story. That's just evolving culture. It is not news that ranting at the fringes influences the general consensus, twas ever thus and it works from both the reactionary and radical sides of the spectrum. Which is presumably why the general culture tends to be more moderate than either lunatic fringe.

I'm not convinced too much by your notion of trying to bring your average Ally Pally punter along with you on a journey of enlightenment either FWIW. I think from a philosophical POV you're obviously right that it would be better if we all were able to learn and grow together but in the real world the vast majority of people are never going to engage with this sort of debate until they get rightly pissed off. The perception that feminazis are putting dolly girls out of a job will probably do more to get people thinking about this sort of thing and forming ideas about it one way or another than any amount of calm debate every would.

Anyway, it's obvious that no lunatic fringe is or ever will be any sort of authority. If businesses think they are going to lose money it's not because of outrage merchants on twitter, it's because of society at large. If something from the vast array of ideas from the toxic left or toxic right happens to resonate with normies and changes end up happening because of it that doesn't mean the wingnuts are calling the shots - it just means they say things we agree with sometimes.

[mdoug]

Certainly some value at 110s on the Raptors but they're not getting out of the East imo. Definitely some value on laying Cavs for the championship as I think there are 3 teams capable of beating them from the West.

As it stands the Bucks would be my outside pick from the East now at 20s. Stylistically they are made for post season and conversely the Raptors offense is not suited to post season. The best example would be DeRozan's advanced stats in the regular season vs the post season.

Warriors should win the championship in 18-19 games

Tbh NBA is by far my smallest bet, I only have 70 on raptors and I only picked them because I thought they were likely to get out of the East and after watching them a good few times I liked how their offense played - but had no idea how it would be in the post-season so cheers for the advice!
Was planning on laying the cavs instead of rockets too so at least I got that one right

Don't mean this to sound smart but do you just not like money or what's the story here?

I'm a bit of a dope with money as many know. I lost 3k this week on random stupid bets tbh but with this one there is a plan.

Yeah I just don't think France are going to do it, and England without a great manager I think are a major threat -> players will play with less pressure and play for each other a bit more, and a lot of their players are in their lifetime peak at the moment and can all score goals.
I personally think France are going to struggle in their group, and hopefully not get out, a bold shout I know. If I am wrong and they top their group it shall likely be -> France vs Croatia(2nd in group with argentina 1st) after groups, then France vs Portugal(2nd in group with Spain 1st), then France vs Brazil(top), then the final.
I think 6/1 is a shocking price for France for those 3 games, coupled with the fact that I think they will not get out of their groups it's a fun gamble.

Was toying with Switzerland, Uruguay, Belgium and even Poland for my big bet sweat of the summer but I think England at 21 was a fantastic price.


DougSavingScheme is to put 250 away every week from the second job until the end of the World Cup which is 24 weeks away, so that's 6k saved. So if am incredibly wrong, I'll still have 6k savings this year, if neither win then I'll have 20k to go again, or if I win then I'll move away and open up a business.
Plus I'll be less sad about England winning the world cup.

That is all.

[jack90210]

In before the PC campaign to change the name of the Welsh Anthem to "Land of my Parents".

[shrapnel]

Cracking game to kick off the tournament.

[jack90210]

TV3 just missed the first 30 seconds of the game for an ad.

[Emmet]

I think that's a fairly hysterical interpretation of what's happening tbh.

I find the notion of a central authority of outraged people on twitter laughable. As I said the other day, if F1/darts had any financial skin in keeping walk on girls the idea that radical feminists on twitter would get them to change is just beyond belief.

If the zeitgeist in the general population shifts on a topic along these lines, that's a different story. That's just evolving culture. It is not news that ranting at the fringes influences the general consensus, twas ever thus and it works from both the reactionary and radical sides of the spectrum. Which is presumably why the general culture tends to be more moderate than either lunatic fringe.

I'm not convinced too much by your notion of trying to bring your average Ally Pally punter along with you on a journey of enlightenment either FWIW. I think from a philosophical POV you're obviously right that it would be better if we all were able to learn and grow together but in the real world the vast majority of people are never going to engage with this sort of debate until they get rightly pissed off. The perception that feminazis are putting dolly girls out of a job will probably do more to get people thinking about this sort of thing and forming ideas about it one way or another than any amount of calm debate every would.

Anyway, it's obvious that no lunatic fringe is or ever will be any sort of authority. If businesses think they are going to lose money it's not because of outrage merchants on twitter, it's because of society at large. If something from the vast array of ideas from the toxic left or toxic right happens to resonate with normies and changes end up happening because of it that doesn't mean the wingnuts are calling the shots - it just means they say things we agree with sometimes.

I look forward to you drawing the line logically between f1 grid girls and 'promotions work', male modelling and general advertising (famous diet coke ad). I am okay with all of them tbh, but am open minded to be challenged on that. The hysterics claim is absolutely fine if you can do that convincingly.

The wedge argument is only a fallacy when it can be shown that there is a difference between the arguments presented.

There has been no harm proved to have been caused (or is there anything even suggested) by the presence of good looking women looking attractive at the G1 that I know of. So the argument for harm reduction as a reason for proposing stopping the practice needs more work.

You and others have started with the premise that it is something weird or perverse. I don't think it is. If you want people to agree, perhaps you should attempt to engage them on it instead of just repeating the premise?

The idea that we should actively make mistakes as a society instead of thinking about them (feminazis putting dolly birds out of a job as you put it) and avoiding them is bizarre to me. I didn't learn to drive by bumping the car into everything until I discovered what space was.

[jack90210]

Scotland were on the biggest "let down alert" today, and its holding true so far.

[Raoul Duke III]

I've so many bets on for interest, I easily get caught up in the excitement of a Six Nations weekend. All the 'bigger' ones (lol, like a few €10 doubles) fall at the first hurdle if Scotland lose

Good start

[Raoul Duke III]

Scotland were on the biggest "let down alert" today, and its holding true so far.

it really is, Wales are there for the taking too.

[Raoul Duke III]

Finn Russell wouldn't get a game at any Irish province. Joke player.

[V for Vendetta]

Finn Russell wouldn't get a game at any Irish province. Joke player.

I think earlier in his career he got too tense and as a result it didn’t happen for him. Now he seems to try too hard to be relaxed and it comes off as too casual.

I reckon Scotland come back into this once the passes start to stick and the line out settles. Bonus points for 4 tries from both sides.

[jack90210]

Bonus points for 4 tries from both sides.

Don't see Scotland getting 4 second half tries.