Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[eamonhonda]

Played some pokers tonight to try Sat into Stars event this weekend.

Got 4th in Hot 55 for $2100 Woooo

Class

[ComradeCollie]

. Gambling ads are probably the worst thing about the planet at the moment.

I think the gambling companies sponsoring TV coverage of sports is far more insidious. That, and the way odds are casually mentioned in most sports coverage.

[CHDad]

I think the gambling companies sponsoring TV coverage of sports is far more insidious. That, and the way odds are casually mentioned in most sports coverage.

It's mentioned in USA and it's hard to get a bet on over there.Vegas lines nearly always quoted.

Over here it's shoved down out throats in ads but rarely mentioned in coverage. Those recently new 30 second ads right before kickoff are always gambling ads.

[dobby]

Played some pokers tonight to try Sat into Stars event this weekend.

Got 4th in Hot 55 for $2100 Woooo

What about the satt tho

[Guest]

I'm entirely aware that gambling companies only exist to make people part with money and that they target those who are problem gamblers disproportionately. There should be restrictions on where a bookies can have a shop, such as not beside a pub, not within a certain distance of another bookies, or only a certain number allowed per population density or something.

Drinks companies are similar in that I know they don't care if most of their profit came from people who have problems with drink.

I don't massively like the idea of over regulating these things, but gambling ads especially have gone way overboard, and bookies just seem like seedy places full of grimness, and that;s just from seeing people go in and out of them as it's been years since I was in a bookies. Sometimes, people just need to be saved from themselves and their worse impulses, while still allowing the sensible majority to still enjoy things in moderation.

In terms of smoking though, I'm not sure why countries don't just ban tobacco products outright? Is it the revenue they take in from taxation? Is it the backlash from the smokers in terms of votes? I don't understand the impediment. Lip service is being paid to it only by governments everywhere.

In terms of regulating as you say proximity to pubs or by population density etc. What effect will that really have on the overall amount of people gambling in the current era and as time progresses.

I would imagine limitations to email spamming, promo flashes on your phone from a downloaded app and limiting web adverts by content, duration, watersheds etc would possibly have a bigger impact as gambling moves more and more towards an online platform.

I agree gambling ads aren't great and from being in the industry and being encouraged to keep letting punters hit the max on virtual sports etc it's preying on the vulnerable while being advertised as recreational.

If Eoghan is right and this generation is essentially lost. I think regulation around advertising via online platforms is the logical step in reducing gambling problems in the future.

[NewApproach]

It's only going to get worse as every young lad in the next generation has betting at their fingertips through mobile devices and it's become sonormalised so quickly.

[Mellor]

I get your point but I meant that I personally don't see the attraction. The whole thing leaves me cold. Can't see it for more than the net losing proposition that it is and don't see the life-EV payback that you get with other vices.

It's a bit odd to take the position that it's always -EV tbh. The guy "who understands gambling" that you mentioned above, gambles because he feels he can beat the bookie. If it was just a uniform slow bleed of 7%, there would be far less of an interest. But it's not, it's highly variable. If the standard diviation is significant, beating the average bleed isn't all that intimidating a prospect.

Regardless, even if somebody does slowly bleed 5% say, so what? Assessing everything you do by EV is a bit silly.
Drinking alcohol is -EV. It costs money. Even if you must get drunk, expensive wine and whiskey cost much more than cans of cheap plonk from Aldi.
Eating is restaurants. -EV. Cook at home and stop losing money on sustenance.
In fact, we should all quit our interests and hobbies. -EV
... actually on that note, how much did you spent on flying and similar costs in the last 12 months? Surely there's cheaper transport available.


Obviously, is being intentionally ironic there. But the point stands. If gambling is a interest/hobby and not your intended source of income. It should be assessed on the same terms as any other hobby and not in terms of EV. There's a lot of people out there who hobbies create more problematic losses than a few bets.

[Guest]

You missed the point of my post. I can see the non-financial (I used the term life-EV) reward in doing all of those other things, but not in gambling and once again I didn't mean to come across as disparaging to people that like betting just that I don't see the fun.

[Raoul Duke III]

I only bet on large animals with small men perched atop.

This makes me a conoisseur, not an addict.

Anyone got a euro for a hostel?

[Guest]

My point was related to 'life-EV' not financial EV. I can see the enjoyment factor in all of those other things just not in betting or casino games. I didn't mean to be disparaging to people that bet, just that I couldn't see how it would be fun.
My opinion is probably very much coloured by years working in the industry though.

[6starpool]

I only bet on large animals with small men perched atop.

This makes me a conoisseur, not an addict.

Anyone got a euro for a hostel?

Well that sport exists entirely for the purposes of betting. If gambling was illegal it would cease to be. Same for the greyhounds.

[Lao Lao]

We've come a long way from a bunch of degenerate poker players

All grown up and mature and shit

#proud

[Denny Crane]

Obviously, is being intentionally ironic there. But the point stands. If gambling is a interest/hobby and not your intended source of income. It should be assessed on the same terms as any other hobby and not in terms of EV. There's a lot of people out there who hobbies create more problematic losses than a few bets.

All those hobbies are fun though. Is losing at gambling still fun when humans generally feel losses twice as strongly as gains?

[Raoul Duke III]

Well that sport exists entirely for the purposes of betting. If gambling was illegal it would cease to be. Same for the greyhounds.

Pretty sure the No 1 gambooling sport is now soccer. Cricket up there too.

Politics clearly best for the sweat.

[Frank Gibney]

Gunna pick up a playboy later in Hef's memory, for the articles.

[Guest]

Pretty sure the No 1 gambooling sport is now soccer. Cricket up there too.

Politics clearly best for the sweat.

Cricket was far bigger than I thought before working in the industry.
It also demonstrates how little people care and/or know about margin when you see the money placed on the coin toss at 10/11

[6starpool]

Pretty sure the No 1 gambooling sport is now soccer. Cricket up there too.

Politics clearly best for the sweat.

More is possibly bet on them, but it is incidental to the sport for the most part. Gambling is an integral part of horse racing. How many people do you think would go to a race meeting if no gambling was allowed on it? Practically none I'd suggest.

[Jibzzzz]

Can't really say Hef went to a better place anyway.

[Raoul Duke III]

Can't really say Hef went to a better place anyway.

Hopefully he died as he lived.

[Strewelpeter]

All those hobbies are fun though. Is losing at gambling still fun when humans generally feel losses twice as strongly as gains?

Gambling becomes a repetitive behaviour because it generates an adrenaline buzz.
The trick is though that when the bet is placed the punter expects it to win, that's what they want and winning is the normal condition, there is a feelgood and cash return but the crucial thing is that the adrenaline rush is only flows when the bad thing happens and you don't win. The thing that keeps you coming back is losing not winning.
I thought we all knew that

[eoghan104]

Just on the gambling matter again. I see your point 5starpool about Bookies near pubs and near eachother. For me though the bookies shops are not the issue. They have been around for donkeys and always will be.

Online gambling is an epidemic and is being rammed down our throats. The ads before games and during intervals advertising live odds would not exist without online sites of course.

It is possible right now for anybody with access to a smartphone to empty there bank account or max out their CC and bet it all in just a few clicks and a matter of minutes. THAT IS MENTAL and it's a gamechanger for the bookies.

Imagine an impressionable 18 yr old now having just received his first pay cheque and compare him to the same 18yr old 20 yrs ago. The 2017 guy can bet it all at the bus stop before he goes to work on a virtual horse race. The 1997 guy has to go to an ATM, wait for bookies to open, go to the bookies and get the bet on the next event available. That is a very significant difference IMO and the root of the problem.

It is also worth noting that the 18 yr old now has been watching ads for gambling for the last 8 years and he has seen his favourite teams be sponsored by the site, the odds appearing on TV at every opportune moment during and around a sporting event. The chances and means to bet are endless.

I am not saying that the bookies shops have not benefited from the advertising but it is clear the ads are directed to the online platforms as that is where they can prey on the weak and extract their money from them instantly. Even look at the bookies in the UK. There is regulation that they can only have so many terminals in each shop. To circumvent this they will just open more shops up the road! They are making enough money off machines to justify the cost of opening a shop on the high street! It all leads back to the instant gratification and buzz or hit that people get from games like Roullette and Blackjack.

I'm rambling but my last point is this....

Jimmy 18yr old above can stand at his bus stop, press a few buttons on his phone and deposit and bet the contents of his bank. He has not proved his age, identity or ownership of the money being deposited. If he wins and wants to take that money out he has to prove all that stuff by sending docs for ID, proof of address, pictures of the card etc. How on Earth has that been allowed? Surely there must be legislation brought in that at the very least makes people prove their age before getting a bet on? Why not make all of these checks mandatory BEFORE someone loses their bollocks?

I don't know, it grinds my gears.... rant over.

[eoghan104]

All those hobbies are fun though. Is losing at gambling still fun when humans generally feel losses twice as strongly as gains?

"the second greatest feeling in the world for a problem gambler is gambling and losing"

Dunno where I read that but it nails it.

[oleras]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyb2HYSne3E

[Silver-Tiger]

Great discussion, Gents. It really is sick.

Did i read here from GAB that by Law your life win/loss will be shown as soon as you log on next year?

[ComradeCollie]

"the second greatest feeling in the world for a problem gambler is gambling and losing"

Dunno where I read that but it nails it.

The greatest has to be chasing losses with money you absolutely cannot afford to lose.

[Guest]

Think they've worked out that no-one who votes SF is ever voting for them, so they're fighting back to please the base. In the same way as SF knows that FG is fair game as no-one who votes FG is ever voting for them. Enda kept acting as if SF voters were going to suddenly convert to FG.

The FG strategy is obviously not working too well though, as you'd be a target voter for FG and you're clearly not impressed, so maybe they need to rein that in to convert potential voters, rather than just doing things that please people who are going to vote FG anyway.

no harm to highlight dangers of SF. ..and ff..and fg

[Mellor]

You missed the point of my post. I can see the non-financial (I used the term life-EV) reward in doing all of those other things, but not in gambling and once again I didn't mean to come across as disparaging to people that like betting just that I don't see the fun.

I didn't missed you point, I it's flawed.
Had you said you get no enjoyment out of gambling, that would be perfectly fine. but this part;

I don't know how anyone who understands the maths of gambling and isn't a dedicated full time pro would bother. Voluntarily giving 7% of your money to a bookie because you can't enjoy sport for sports sake

was a bit illogical imo. If somebody understands the maths of gambling, they understand that the odds are beatable. Not guaranteed of course. But it's not particular rare.
You are also assuming that gambling is shit unless you are lifetime in profit. Which isn't really true.

I'll used an example, I uploaded 20 euro to Betfair for my first deposit. I'm not sure how long ago it was. But around 10-12 years ago anyway as I was in ireland. I've never deposited again. My balanced has yoyo over the years. Into the hundreds, the thousands, back to the hundreds etc. It's just for fun.
If I went nuts and bust the entire roll this weekend. I'd be annoyed, but I reckon I've gotten value for money on my 20 quid.

All those hobbies are fun though. Is losing at gambling still fun when humans generally feel losses twice as strongly as gains?

But people also tend to over estimate their wins. Which balances it out.

Eating and drinking it pretty fum with minimal down side. Unless you've habit of waking up mortified.
Sports have as many ups as down. For every winner there's a loser, or even multiple losers. If I lose a bet on a horse, I don't really care as it was out of my hands. I'm more likely to get annoyed at losing a important match. And on the other hand, as much as I enjoy winning a bet, I'd get more satisfaction out if I was to pull off a big wins.
Maybe others are more emotionally invested in betting, and it becomes a negative feedback loop for them

[Guest]

Do an in depth case study on the gaming industry in Ireland ..present it to the peoples assembly see their recommendations.

[Guest]

Ban something though it becomes cool..and crazy people starting fighting for the rights of big companies to be free....because companies are people too ..and people matter.

[Guest]

All grown up and mature and shit

I'm not.

[6starpool]

Absolutely the proliferation of online gambling sites is a scourge. The fact that all you need to get on a bet is a way of lodging money and that they don't care who you are until you want to withdraw it is crazy.

How to put that genie back in the bottle though without fully banning them is the trick. Making it more difficult to get a bet on in terms of verification of identity beforehand would help a little, but only that much.

The culture of no tax on gambling in this country, while something as poker players we've all appreciated, is the way to naturally add restrictions to be honest. If the game was more obviously rigged it would put off some people, but probably not the problem ones unfortunately.

[Guest]

Leo bossing SF again today (video is worth watching). Seems like the first party leader of any party that can control them.

I know it's like FUCK your shit! I am NOT doing it...

[Guest]

Absolutely the proliferation of online gambling sites is a scourge. The fact that all you need to get on a bet is a way of lodging money and that they don't care who you are until you want to withdraw it is crazy.

How to put that genie back in the bottle though without fully banning them is the trick. Making it more difficult to get a bet on in terms of verification of identity beforehand would help a little, but only that much.

The culture of no tax on gambling in this country, while something as poker players we've all appreciated, is the way to naturally add restrictions to be honest. If the game was more obviously rigged it would put off some people, but probably not the problem ones unfortunately.

Have you heard of the 'when the fun stops stop' campaign? http://egr.global/intel/news/senet-g...ling-campaign/

New study finds ‘When the Fun Stops Stop’ creative prevented 18% of regular punters from gambling more than they should

It's not about stopping it .Have your fun ..but when the fun stops stop.

[Strewelpeter]

It's funny how many people see the proliferation of gambling sites and the attendant marketing as a scourge that we would want controlled and want vulnerable children protected from but when the exact same points are made about alcohol it is treated as an attack on our fundamental rights and children are just collateral damage while weighed alongside one's basic human right to know that yer man stayed up on the surfboard after sixteen pints of stout

[Guest]

I heard an idea from someone not allowing gambling with cash ..you buy tokens that are limited like 2 per week.

[Guest]

It's funny how many people see the proliferation of gambling sites and the attendant marketing as a scourge that we would want controlled and want vulnerable children protected from but when the exact same points are made about alcohol it is treated as an attack on our fundamental rights and children are just collateral damage while weighed alongside one's basic human right to know that yer man stayed up on the surfboard after sixteen pints of stout

It's not useful to demonize either ..some alcoholics and gambling addicts are really lovely people. Same with peeps in the industry. Not all obv.

[Guest]

Actually MOST addicts are lovely people. Just an illness etc.

[Guest]

Ban something though it becomes cool..and crazy people starting fighting for the rights of big companies to be free....because companies are people too ..and people matter.

Banning it outright would be a terrible idea and prob impossible ,theses companies need their clipped big time though
The displaying of lifetime p+l of account is a start
Ban on tv advertising,sponsorship of sporting teams and events,sports programs on tv or radio
Tax them or impose a levy to pay for treatment of problem gamblers
Ban on all the soft advertising they get in the media.bye bye chelters “charity “ bets banter etc
Draconian sign up processes to be implemented
Regulator who has power to impose massive fines when company takes the piss(eg when paddy power plamased that post office lad who was spunking millions of stolen funds,they took out to hospitality at big games etc to ensure he’d keep losing with them,knew what they were doing)
Marketing team from paddy power to be shot in the street and their bodies left there as a warning

[Guest]

Marketing team from paddy power to be shot in the street and their bodies left there as a warning

FOOK YEAH! I would buy THAT video game.

[Guest]

Have you heard of the 'when the fun stops stop' campaign? http://egr.global/intel/news/senet-g...ling-campaign/

New study finds ‘When the Fun Stops Stop’ creative prevented 18% of regular punters from gambling more than they should

It's not about stopping it .Have your fun ..but when the fun stops stop.

Voluntary watchdog set up by gambling companies as a sop to stave off proper regulation in “our pathetic campaign is working really well” shocker

That campaign is ridiculous,love how fun has the biggest font on the poster

[Raoul Duke III]

Australia week after next for a few days. Contemplating turning up unannounced to sister in Tasmania.

[Denny Crane]

It's funny how many people see the proliferation of gambling sites and the attendant marketing as a scourge that we would want controlled and want vulnerable children protected from but when the exact same points are made about alcohol it is treated as an attack on our fundamental rights and children are just collateral damage while weighed alongside one's basic human right to know that yer man stayed up on the surfboard after sixteen pints of stout

I'd have more of an an issue with the drinks industry if they only served 8 pinters.

[Guest]

Never tempt me with extremes ....

Here is some Bjork!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n0Ps1KWVU0

[Strewelpeter]

Here is a story that will warm the cockles of your heart, especially if you've had an insurance renewal quote recently.


Three payouts for man after cars driven by wife and sister rear-ended other vehicles
.

A man has received his third compensation payout concerning cars in which he travelling rear-ending other cars on straight roads.
Two of the ‘rear-ending’ accidents involving Martin Ward of Blackberry Lane, Athlone occurred on roads leading into roundabouts in Ennis.
In the latest case at Ennis Circuit Court, Judge Gerald Keys ruled that the married father of five receive €4,000 for the ‘very minor injuries’ he sustained when his sister, Margaret Ward rear ended another car at the Maid of Erin roundabout in Ennis in April 2014.

Mr Ward was previously a passenger in two accidents where his wife, Rosie Ward was the driver and one of those accidents was a rear-ending of another car on another roundabout in Ennis.
The total amount paid by Liberty Insurance to deal with the claims from the previous two accidents totals €134,483 - Mr Ward shared payouts with other claimants in those accidents.

[Guest]

But people also tend to over estimate their wins. Which balances it out.

You've basically backed up what I'm trying to say by admitting it's a zero-sum happiness game (at best) where people's delusion over their skill level is the only thing that makes it even that.

[Guest]

Australia week after next for a few days. Contemplating turning up unannounced to sister in Tasmania.

Go see this it's a natural phenomena caused by algae Tasmania bay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHHJmlCTaEc

[Guest]

These ads have convinced exactly 0 people to not unload their case loots on some load of bollocks. Need to go way grittier than this

https://youtu.be/W1J9C8mpVhw

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8_W1ZnupYLI

[6starpool]

It's funny how many people see the proliferation of gambling sites and the attendant marketing as a scourge that we would want controlled and want vulnerable children protected from but when the exact same points are made about alcohol it is treated as an attack on our fundamental rights and children are just collateral damage while weighed alongside one's basic human right to know that yer man stayed up on the surfboard after sixteen pints of stout

If you are including me in this, I've no problem with introducing measures to reduce problem drinking. Minimum pricing probably won't unduly bother me personally, but I'm not convinced as to its effectiveness.

Alcohol advertising seems far more tightly controlled than gambling though. If there was an ad at the start of football matches saying something like 'football is better when you watch it while drinking' you'd rightly be disgusted, but that can never happen now. The same does happen all the time for gambling though, and all the glib twitter accounts posting 'humour' with the express intent of promoting gambling is far worse than anything that is allowed with alcohol.

I don't know why, conversely, you are focusing on alcohol rather than gambling. Although given that you are a non drinker but love horse racing...

[Strewelpeter]

I'd have more of an an issue with the drinks industry if they only served 8 pinters.

I'll grant you that the alcohol companies would appear to have a lesser reliance on people with obviously out of control problems than the modern gambling industry who, it seems to me, rely on such customers.
However I would also point out that just as used to be the way with tobacco we do not come close to covering the cost of the long term health and societal costs of alcohol. The tack that the government seem to be taking is to attempt to nudge us towards reduced consumption and that is probably something you would prefer to the alternatives.

[6starpool]

Have you heard of the 'when the fun stops stop' campaign? http://egr.global/intel/news/senet-g...ling-campaign/

New study finds ‘When the Fun Stops Stop’ creative prevented 18% of regular punters from gambling more than they should

It's not about stopping it .Have your fun ..but when the fun stops stop.

I'm sure that's fulfilling some regulatory regulations, similar to the drinks industry with their similar type campaigns. Lip service mostly.

[Guest]

It's funny how many people see the proliferation of gambling sites and the attendant marketing as a scourge that we would want controlled and want vulnerable children protected from but when the exact same points are made about alcohol it is treated as an attack on our fundamental rights and children are just collateral damage while weighed alongside one's basic human right to know that yer man stayed up on the surfboard after sixteen pints of stout

Not against some more controls but alcohol is way further along than gambling in that sense as 5 star has said

[ArmaniJeans]

All bets in-shop or on-line are subject to 1% tax at the moment. (It just seemed to have gained traction on the last page that there is no tax on gambling)

[Guest]

Italian sites are strongly regulated. Limited number of selections on sporting events which includes "altro" as rest of the field.
In the event of a mistake, bets can't be palped so that 20/1 shot that should have been 2/1 Is honoured and in running bets are limited.

I don't think that would work as I think we've gone too far but the idea of a central regulator makes sense.

Perhaps a regulator would restrict companies ability to consistently up punters stake factors as they continue to max on virtual horses for example.

It's a difficult situation in an agile business that definitely doesn't have an easy solution.

[6starpool]

All bets in-shop or on-line are subject to 1% tax at the moment. (It just seemed to have gained traction on the last page that there is no tax on gambling)

I know that, but the gambling company covers that, which speaks volumes in itself.

[Mellor]

You've basically backed up what I'm trying to say by admitting it's a zero-sum happiness game (at best) where people's delusion over their skill level is the only thing that makes it even that.

That doesn't in the slightest back up what you said. You complete ignored the enjoyment element. And also claim that everyone bleeds the same 7%.
I was using that point to counter Denny's suggestion that people feel their losses more. I don't believe they do, unless they are betting with money they really can't loses.
I also wasn't saying it's zero sum. It isn't for me, not even close. I'd never gamble with money I can't afford to lose. It's literally disposable income for me. As a result, losing a bet hardly phases me - I obviously don't enjoy it, but I get much more enjoyment out of winning.

Maybe I'm an exception. But I'd be more annoyed about losing $20 in a bar than I would about losing a $50 bet but I would dwell on either. It's hard to get hung up on stuff like when see the interest on my mortgage each month.

[Lurker23]

Nice game Lurker, happy days.

How was the stadium, as good as it looks?

Sorry about the delay in responding! Yep fantastic stadium altogether. Definitely the best I've ever experienced. It's beautiful when lit up at night too.

I could see it from my hotel room. The giant metal falcon outside the stadium is a sight to behold!

SPOILER

[ArmaniJeans]

I know that, but the gambling company covers that, which speaks volumes in itself.

I presume it does add up for them though, maybe GAB or someone would know the nett figure.
If someone goes into the bookies in the morning with €100 and goes through the normal up a bit, down a bit phases before losing it all by afternoon then perhaps €10/€12 of it ends up as tax due.
Without this 1% tax then all €100 of it is the bookies.

[Guest]

Australia week after next for a few days. Contemplating turning up unannounced to sister in Tasmania.

Accidentally ended up watching some Aussie Rules the other day,how does such a proud sporting nation have such a rubbish national sport,it’s despera stuff

[eoghan104]

Strewel.

The arguments are not the same.

Point me to a place where an underage person can get drink online without any need to prove identity or age and we will be getting close.

[Guest]

That doesn't in the slightest back up what you said. You complete ignored the enjoyment element. And also claim that everyone bleeds the same 7%.
I was using that point to counter Denny's suggestion that people feel their losses more. I don't believe they do, unless they are betting with money they really can't loses.
I also wasn't saying it's zero sum. It isn't for me, not even close.

My whole post was about the enjoyment element

Psychology suggests people feel 2x as sad when they lose as they do happy when they win. You counter with the fact that people are deluded into thinking they win more than they do which 'balances it out'. 'It' being the net enjoyment.

A financial reward could tip the enjoyment scale in your favour but even if you have a 5% edge you need to turn over upwards of 100k a year for your skill to pay off in any even-slightly meaningful way financially.