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**Guest** · 02-04-20, 10:03

Kids have taken over my computer for a Zoom dance class organised by the school. Strange times indeed.

**Strewelpeter** · 02-04-20, 10:20

Originally posted by PSV58 View Post

Eir broadband is great as long as you don’t attempt to have any contact with their customer service. They really innovated it after the last crash

There is a fantastic loop on their support page which only offers the plug it out and plug it back in again and only option available for more help takes you back to the log in page which will log you out unless you find some meaningless option which through some Minoan labyrinth eventually leads to a page with a cunningly hidden 'report a fault' link.
On the phone then they give you twenty minutes of telling you how much easier it would be if you used the internet to report that you have no internet!

**Lao Lao** · 02-04-20, 10:56

Originally posted by Murdrum View Post

I find it hard to decipher exactly what a US official means, how high up is that exactly? There was three tbf but how partisan they actually are is an obvious issue too.

That said, I was a tad surprised by the headline in Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...elligence-says

Perhaps their sources are solid but China Concealed Extent of Virus Outbreak, U.S. Intelligence Says
seems a tad sensationalist when no sources are given.

I also thought if they were sitting on an intelligence report like that for a week then Trump would be saying a little more than:

“Their numbers seem to be a little bit on the light side, and I’m being nice when I say that,”

I've always said that I don't believe the Chinese numbers and how I pretty much don't believe anything that comes out of China but I am also very uneasy at these "intellignce reports" that come from unnamed sources who don't want their names to be known as the report is top secret. So secret, that they literally cannot wait to tell major news organisations all about it but hush now, it's a secret.

Like, are these the same intelligence reports that were 100% nailed on that Sadam had all the WMDs? Anytime, anything happens, there seems to be an intelligence report to suit the required narrative from every standpoint.

I fully accept the contradictory nature of me criticising a report that essentially backs up something I believe in but there is just something about how this all plays out that doesn't sit well with me.

**tylerdurden94** · 02-04-20, 11:02

Originally posted by DeadParrot View Post

66 movies here:

SPOILER

Do you have a high res version of this?

**Wombatman** · 02-04-20, 11:13

Agree with everything Harrington is saying here. Probably because it matches my putting stroke. Arc putting and left hand low FTW. Straight to straight always felt so wrong to me.

Solid putting clinic from Harrington.

Basics of putting - Harrington's Tips | Master the basics of putting

Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

**Tar.Aldarion** · 02-04-20, 11:15

Chatting to somebody about all this and they had a very different opinions than most. One was that there are so many deaths every day anyway (165,000+), that the added ones from this virus shouldn't cause such a detriment to society, or at least shouldn't be such a big deal - but that humans can only process things that are detrimental in a certain way, but things that are way worse than this such as climate change or other things like slower preventative deaths are also things that need action like this but don't get it. That the crash is going to cause a lot of hardship, poverty and a lot more deaths through various means, so is it even much better halting society like this (apart from the mental utilitarian aspect). It was at the least more fun to talk about than the usual topics on this stuff.

**tylerdurden94** · 02-04-20, 11:18

Thinking about signing up to Amazon Prime for tv/movies, for those of you who use it do you find it good? Much content on it? How many user profiles can you setup?

**Guest** · 02-04-20, 11:18

You know you're in trouble when Trump is calling you a fucktard:

**Silver-Tiger** · 02-04-20, 11:19

Originally posted by tylerdurden94 View Post

Thinking about signing up to Amazon Prime for tv/movies, for those of you who use it do you find it good? Much content on it? How many user profiles can you setup?

Released season 6 and 7 of Peppa Pig this week.

Apart from that. No idea

**Guest** · 02-04-20, 11:20

Jesus; special relationship mehole!

**LuckyLloyd** · 02-04-20, 11:22

Originally posted by Keane View Post

I just think you would have to be insane to commit to potentially the biggest financial transaction of your life at a time like this.

Some of the 2007 / 2008 bollocksology is floating around the boards property forum, never forget.

It's currently manifesting itself as 'take a mortgage now before you lose a job or the banks stop lending'. And 'so what if you're in negative equity if it's your forever home'.

We were looking in January and February and have the deposit sorted, ready to go, etc. We obviously stopped a month ago. It is blatantly obvious to me that there are 10's of points of a drop coming across the board. Buying now is a mad concept for so many reasons (and the entire end to end process is probably impossible during this level of lockdown anyway). Buying any asset that imminently loses a chunk of value seems like a completely mad idea. But also, if you are lucky enough to have savings right now, potentially being flexible and mobile could be a key to weathering an economic crisis. Money to relocate, retrain, etc.

It's obviously wrong to assume that only the things you want to change will at a time like this. I'd like to buy a house cheaper than I thought I would be able to, who wouldn't? But that assumes we both keep our jobs and the banks continue to lend (eventhough we were looking to borrow well under the 3.5 ratio so aren't on the limit from that respect). But it's also dead wrong to sign up to a ~30 year arrangement for an asset that may see a huge medium term price shock when your own income cannot be guaranteed in the short to medium term.

So yeah, to answer Connie's question in a much more roundabout way, pull out of any deal if you can and see what happens.

**tylerdurden94** · 02-04-20, 11:23

Originally posted by Silver-Tiger View Post

Released season 6 and 7 of Peppa Pig this week.

Apart from that. No idea

**Guest** · 02-04-20, 11:24

Originally posted by tylerdurden94 View Post

Thinking about signing up to Amazon Prime for tv/movies, for those of you who use it do you find it good? Much content on it? How many user profiles can you setup?

I'd a prime membership (for way too long), the search facility for films/shows is shite

If you search by ratings you get Adam Sandler style stuff getting 4.5 stars etc

So there might well be stuff on there but good luck finding it

**Guest** · 02-04-20, 11:33

Originally posted by Tar.Aldarion View Post

Chatting to somebody about all this and they had a very different opinions than most. One was that there are so many deaths every day anyway (165,000+), that the added ones from this virus shouldn't cause such a detriment to society, or at least shouldn't be such a big deal - but that humans can only process things that are detrimental in a certain way, but things that are way worse than this such as climate change or other things like slower preventative deaths are also things that need action like this but don't get it. That the crash is going to cause a lot of hardship, poverty and a lot more deaths through various means, so is it even much better halting society like this (apart from the mental utilitarian aspect). It was at the least more fun to talk about than the usual topics on this stuff.

I've seen similar arguments but fundamentally it's a case of consequentialist versus deontological ethics.

You should save people now because saving people is morally the right action to take opposed to offsetting the immediate loss through the saving of more lives in the future.

**shrapnel** · 02-04-20, 11:36

Originally posted by Elshambles View Post

I'd a prime membership (for way too long), the search facility for films/shows is shite

If you search by ratings you get Adam Sandler style stuff getting 4.5 stars etc

So there might well be stuff on there but good luck finding it

this. it's pretty crap and clunky. so slow interface compared to netflix. we've watched a few series on there but not much. and the fact there is a lot of ppv on top of the subscription, they can basically fuck off tbh

Ed · 02-04-20, 11:44

Originally posted by tylerdurden94 View Post

Thinking about signing up to Amazon Prime for tv/movies, for those of you who use it do you find it good? Much content on it? How many user profiles can you setup?

Movie content is terrible and TV shows content isn't great beyond having a few good shows.

Movie content is only useful if you're really into "so bad they're good" movies. Which I am but still couldn't justify paying for it alongside netflix

**Lazare** · 02-04-20, 11:56

**Tar.Aldarion** · 02-04-20, 12:04

Originally posted by Murdrum View Post

I've seen similar arguments but fundamentally it's a case of consequentialist versus deontological ethics.

You should save people now because saving people is morally the right action to take opposed to offsetting the immediate loss through the saving of more lives in the future.

I agree that it is better to save now. I guess a part of the point is that there is inconsistency. Banning added sugar, alcohol, lowering the speed limit by x, drastically changing how we consume saves lives right now, peoples expiry dates just aren't right now. One people have a meltdown over - we must do everything we possibly can to save lives, the others don't cause an eyelid to be batted in general, even though the latter actually causes far more deaths.

**AndyFatBastard** · 02-04-20, 12:07

Originally posted by Lao Lao View Post

I've always said that I don't believe the Chinese numbers and how I pretty much don't believe anything that comes out of China but I am also very uneasy at these "intellignce reports" that come from unnamed sources who don't want their names to be known as the report is top secret. So secret, that they literally cannot wait to tell major news organisations all about it but hush now, it's a secret.

Like, are these the same intelligence reports that were 100% nailed on that Sadam had all the WMDs? Anytime, anything happens, there seems to be an intelligence report to suit the required narrative from every standpoint.

I fully accept the contradictory nature of me criticising a report that essentially backs up something I believe in but there is just something about how this all plays out that doesn't sit well with me.

I think you're just starting to understand the scale of the problem we have with sources of truth. Shit be whacked yo.

**Closed_Account** · 02-04-20, 12:11

Surely there is some way to order those tests that the aul lad that was posted yesterday is claiming are widespread in Thailand, that test for antibodies or whatever?

Fucking struggling today after feeling Ok mentally the last two or three. Articles about the morgue being built in Kilmainham and my best pals mother in law and uncle dying through the virus within a few days of each other to the virus prob a factor but feel fucking terrified, anxious and randomly incredibly angry today

**DeadParrot** · 02-04-20, 13:14

you can see her wince as the producer screams into her ear

**Opr** · 02-04-20, 13:21

Originally posted by Tar.Aldarion View Post

Chatting to somebody about all this and they had a very different opinions than most. One was that there are so many deaths every day anyway (165,000+), that the added ones from this virus shouldn't cause such a detriment to society, or at least shouldn't be such a big deal - but that humans can only process things that are detrimental in a certain way, but things that are way worse than this such as climate change or other things like slower preventative deaths are also things that need action like this but don't get it. That the crash is going to cause a lot of hardship, poverty and a lot more deaths through various means, so is it even much better halting society like this (apart from the mental utilitarian aspect). It was at the least more fun to talk about than the usual topics on this stuff.

This is said like we had an alternative option of letting it rip through the population? What kind of percentage deaths would we see in the scenario where the healthcare system can't treat people due to everyone getting sick at once? So you have Italy only on a much larger scale for a much longer period of time. Do we think that is the acceptable loss of life for future gains? You also because of toppling the healthcare system have a long period of time when it is ongoing that many more people die unrelated to the virus due to lack of medical care available. I am struggling here with the idea that we had a choice between the current situation and other options? I think some countries would have deemed a large number of people as an acceptable loss but when you actually analyze the plan of how that happens it doesn't play out the way you first might think.

Opr

**Guest** · 02-04-20, 13:32

Originally posted by DeadParrot View Post

you can see her wince as the producer screams into her ear

If there was ever a time for some Elizabeth Holmes to arise from the ashes proclaiming that Theranos can now save the lives of millions with their blood testing device, it is now.

If she could get Theranos to a 9 billion dollar valuation 5 years ago, imagine the shit she could have pulled if she arrived on the scene now.

Bad Blood: Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37976541-bad-blood?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=tR0E4Y9pSw&rank=1

The full inside story of the breathtaking rise and shoc…

**LuckyLloyd** · 02-04-20, 13:32

Originally posted by Opr View Post

This is said like we had an alternative option of letting it rip through the population? What kind of percentage deaths would we see in the scenario where the healthcare system can't treat people due to everyone getting sick at once? So you have Italy only on a much larger scale for a much longer period of time. Do we think that is the acceptable loss of life for future gains? You also because of toppling the healthcare system have a long period of time when it is ongoing that many more people die unrelated to the virus due to lack of medical care available. I am struggling here with the idea that we had a choice between the current situation and other options? I think some countries would have deemed a large number of people as an acceptable loss but when you actually analyze the plan of how that happens it doesn't play out the way you first might think.

Opr

Particularly when there is a death rate associated to 20 - 39 year olds. That is going to be 0.2 - 0.5%. That’s 50 - 100k people from a 20m sample. Quite the philosophical decision to accept the deaths of up to 100k young people, even if you can argue it is of superior long term economic benefit.

**DeadParrot** · 02-04-20, 13:34

if this doesn't cheer you up today...

**Guest** · 02-04-20, 13:37

Originally posted by Opr View Post

This is said like we had an alternative option of letting it rip through the population? What kind of percentage deaths would we see in the scenario where the healthcare system can't treat people due to everyone getting sick at once? So you have Italy only on a much larger scale for a much longer period of time. Do we think that is the acceptable loss of life for future gains? You also because of toppling the healthcare system have a long period of time when it is ongoing that many more people die unrelated to the virus due to lack of medical care available. I am struggling here with the idea that we had a choice between the current situation and other options? I think some countries would have deemed a large number of people as an acceptable loss but when you actually analyze the plan of how that happens it doesn't play out the way you first might think.

Opr

I don't think Tar nor his mate are claiming we had an alternative choice or should have tackled it differently. It's effectively a philosophical thought experiment.

The current situation is another example of an event which if treated from a purely utilitarian perspective may be tackled in a different manner.

We know it could never be treated that way because there are humans making the decision and not an AI for example.

**Hitchhiker's Guide To...** · 02-04-20, 13:44

...

**Hitchhiker's Guide To...** · 02-04-20, 13:56

...

**Keane** · 02-04-20, 14:04

Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

Agree with essentially everything here - except: I just don't see house prices falling.

There's not much falls in higher income jobs, and that's who you are competing with for a home. Low income households who have lost their jobs have pretty much no effect on house prices.

There's such pent up demand, that what homes are available (less now as production has fallen) will still be highly demanded. There's also very little pressure for anyone to half to sell - so we don't have the increased supply dynamics.

Interest rates and collapsing equity prices means the real estate funds will have loads of money for buying buy-to-rent places, so there's also that competition.

Now, property prices might indeed fall because of sentiment or whatever other reason, but I can't quite see the reasons why its obvious right now.

Someone making 80-100k a year with a now-unemployed partner who was earning 30-40k has just gone from being able to afford a house at 3.5X combined earnings to not being able to afford a house at 3.5X, right?

**bohsman** · 02-04-20, 14:18

And more people losing their homes due to loss of income. Airbnb bubble bursting across Europe too I'd say.

**Wombatman** · 02-04-20, 14:18

Originally posted by Murdrum View Post

I don't think Tar nor his mate are claiming we had an alternative choice or should have tackled it differently. It's effectively a philosophical thought experiment.

The current situation is another example of an event which if treated from a purely utilitarian perspective may be tackled in a different manner.

We know it could never be treated that way because there are humans making the decision and not an AI for example.

Philosophical thought experiment you say? Not for Bolsonaro.

**Strewelpeter** · 02-04-20, 14:20

Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post

Bogband is not great but no bogband is a catastrophe.

Eircom seem to be proud of their ability to get someone to look at it in 3 - 5 working days

Left with poor mobile connection FML

Fair play to Eircom, a lad I know rang up at 2 said he'd come out to lave a look and we are up and running again already. I'll give them a few passes on past and future problems for that.

**ionapaul** · 02-04-20, 14:23

Originally posted by tylerdurden94 View Post

Thinking about signing up to Amazon Prime for tv/movies, for those of you who use it do you find it good? Much content on it? How many user profiles can you setup?

Quite a fan of Amazon Prime, some of their content is great - The Man In The High Castle was really enjoyable, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel is brilliant and I enjoyed Good Omens too.

**Raoul Duke III** · 02-04-20, 14:39

One thing I didn't consider when grassing up my former shrub areas. Basically 50% in the middle was old lawn which I left alone and I now have 25% extra on each side where my new grass is growing happily now.

The new grass is a luscious bright green colour which contrasts quite badly with the faded yellowy-green mossy shit of the old. Now it looks like a really shitty flag.

**AndyFatBastard** · 02-04-20, 14:45

Originally posted by bohsman View Post

And more people losing their homes due to loss of income. Airbnb bubble bursting across Europe too I'd say.

State payments system should deal with the majority of the first problem. 2nd one is having a huge impact on supply in the rental market but won't make a noticeable difference to purchasing imo.

**Hitchhiker's Guide To...** · 02-04-20, 14:53

...

**Hitchhiker's Guide To...** · 02-04-20, 14:55

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**Keane** · 02-04-20, 14:58

Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

This is all guesswork - but I'd imagine that second income will bounce back fairly quickly and the deposit is still there and also I think there's just so many people waiting and so few homes available that its not going to be a collapse. As someone who may be moving back to Dublin in September with a deposit ready to use, I'd love a collapse, but it just doesn't seem like the right conditions for that to happen.

Bear in mind the financial crisis was a collapse in high income jobs and thats why it was so devastating to property. This time around seems to have mainly (for now anyway) just affected lower income jobs, and temporarily at that.

Nobody said anything about collapses!

**Dice75** · 02-04-20, 14:59

Originally posted by Gimmeabreak

What did we ever do as a nation to have Paddy Cosgrave thrust upon us

https://twitter.com/parodycosgrave

**Hitchhiker's Guide To...** · 02-04-20, 15:04

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**Guest** · 02-04-20, 15:06

Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

Wouldn't buy Prime for the streaming. It's just a few shows (Goliath, American Gods) that are easily downloaded. But Prime for actual delivery is almost a required utility expenditure.

No it isn’t
Objectively awful company of fuck all benefit to society
One upside I hope we’ll see from this crisis is more governments intervening to put manners on the likes of amazon, consumers aren’t going to do it, it’s been well proven at this stage that people are ok with basic human and employment rights being trampled on for a bit of convenience
I haven’t used amazon in over a decade, massively non essential

**Tar.Aldarion** · 02-04-20, 15:08

Originally posted by Murdrum View Post

I don't think Tar nor his mate are claiming we had an alternative choice or should have tackled it differently. It's effectively a philosophical thought experiment.

The current situation is another example of an event which if treated from a purely utilitarian perspective may be tackled in a different manner.

We know it could never be treated that way because there are humans making the decision and not an AI for example.

Yes.

Also regarding utilitarianism, often the extremes of it end up in a place where you feel it should give you the wrong answer from a empathetic perspective. Traditionally utilitarians come up with a reasoning saying their philosophical model is still intact because of the damage that scenario would have on society being negative enough insofar that the unconscionable thing is not actually the right move. With the way society is now, I have to wonder would it, being as atrocities seem so transient in peoples minds.

Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View Post

Particularly when there is a death rate associated to 20 - 39 year olds. That is going to be 0.2 - 0.5%. That’s 50 - 100k people from a 20m sample. Quite the philosophical decision to accept the deaths of up to 100k young people, even if you can argue it is of superior long term economic benefit.

Do people feel that 0.2-0.5 is accurate, or is it more likely up to a factor of 10 less due to testing limitations?

Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

This is all guesswork - but I'd imagine that second income will bounce back fairly quickly and the deposit is still there and also I think there's just so many people waiting and so few homes available that its not going to be a collapse. As someone who may be moving back to Dublin in September with a deposit ready to use, I'd love a collapse, but it just doesn't seem like the right conditions for that to happen.

Bear in mind the financial crisis was a collapse in high income jobs and thats why it was so devastating to property. This time around seems to have mainly (for now anyway) just affected lower income jobs, and temporarily at that.

Lower rent prices do somewhat affect house prices too though, in soft relational terms. Desire to buy vs rent, buy-to-let and so forth. I'd expect some modest decrease.

**Guest** · 02-04-20, 15:17

Originally posted by Tar.Aldarion View Post

Do people feel that 0.2-0.5 is accurate, or is it more likely up to a factor of 10 less due to testing limitations?

2 people between 20 and 50 died in South Korea out of 5000 confirmed cases

**Guest** · 02-04-20, 15:21

Originally posted by zuutroy View Post

2 people between 20 and 50 died in South Korea out of 5000 confirmed cases

I suspect 0.2%-0.5% will be a closer approximation for hospitalisation in that cohort than death rate for it.

Like I said the other day, 1.6% was the ICU admission rate up till March 28th for people in Ireland under the age of 45.

**Hitchhiker's Guide To...** · 02-04-20, 15:25

...

**Dice75** · 02-04-20, 15:38

Jesus, do none of ye read facebook. According too Karen from Tallaght der is no Corona 19 its all a coverup to get all d kidsn everyone locked away so dey can put up all d 5g masts to kill us all dat way and keep all d money. Wake up Sheeple

**Raoul Duke III** · 02-04-20, 16:12

Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post

Could be the kimchi

I won't hear a word against kimchi, great stuff altogether.

**dobby** · 02-04-20, 16:13

Signed up to Richard Osmans newsletter for his quiz that was sent today and it didnt disappoint.

10 questions, 50 points up for grabs. And every answer starts with the letter A

SPOILER

**mcnugget** · 02-04-20, 16:40

Originally posted by dobby View Post

Signed up to Richard Osmans newsletter for his quiz that was sent today and it didnt disappoint.

10 questions, 50 points up for grabs. And every answer starts with the letter A

SPOILER

Nice one

SPOILER

**Guest** · 02-04-20, 16:42

Originally posted by dobby View Post

Signed up to Richard Osmans newsletter for his quiz that was sent today and it didnt disappoint.

10 questions, 50 points up for grabs. And every answer starts with the letter A

SPOILER

...

**Raoul Duke III** · 02-04-20, 16:44

Originally posted by mcnugget View Post

Nice one

SPOILER

I wouldn't have got

SPOILER

but how do you not get

SPOILER

?

**mcnugget** · 02-04-20, 16:49

Ah jaysus

**Tar.Aldarion** · 02-04-20, 16:54

Originally posted by dobby View Post

Signed up to Richard Osmans newsletter for his quiz that was sent today and it didnt disappoint.

10 questions, 50 points up for grabs. And every answer starts with the letter A

SPOILER

**Opr** · 02-04-20, 16:57

Originally posted by Murdrum View Post

I don't think Tar nor his mate are claiming we had an alternative choice or should have tackled it differently. It's effectively a philosophical thought experiment.

The current situation is another example of an event which if treated from a purely utilitarian perspective may be tackled in a different manner.

We know it could never be treated that way because there are humans making the decision and not an AI for example.

I get that but treating it as such, where is the other solution and why would you take it? From what point of view or factors would an AI consider another option. He pointed out that the current option will lead to massive economic hardship that will cost many lives in the future. I don't know if you were to run the numbers on a pure loss of life/other factors best strategy that the current one would come out worse given what we have seen from the worst-case scenario of letting it rip through.

Opr

**dobby** · 02-04-20, 17:00

Originally posted by Tar.Aldarion View Post

SPOILER

Read question 1 properly and try again. I didnt even look at your other answers after that shambles

**Fullof..It** · 02-04-20, 17:03

Great to see the main man Tony back.

Turned a personal story into a public message about making sure Corona doesnt stop us going to hospital too

Disappointed media didnt get an Irish, tongue in cheek barb in about taking a day off during a crisis in though.

**Tar.Aldarion** · 02-04-20, 17:06

Originally posted by dobby View Post

Read question 1 properly and try again. I didnt even look at your other answers after that shambles

SPOILER

EDIT: OH SHIT LOL

Edited now to remove silly answers

**Fullof..It** · 02-04-20, 17:09

Tragic about nursing home deaths but if you remove them (Im assuming a good % of our deaths are from nursery homes based on anecdotes and median age) our death rate is stable (non exponential).

ICU numbers look same too - hopefully fact we went early and hard (relative to worse countries int he world) on restrictions kicking in.

Someone tamper my optimism!

**Guest** · 02-04-20, 17:10

Galfond back to being down 2 buyins in the challenge thing. Some come back!

**Opr** · 02-04-20, 17:15

Originally posted by zuutroy View Post

Galfond back to being down 2 buyins in the challenge thing. Some come back!

I just turned it on after seeing your post. He just won another huge one to be down now less than a buyin. This is incredible.

Opr

Announcement

Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

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