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People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostIt is reckoned to be the hallmark of a good debater, to be able to eloquently hold forth in defence of something you absolutely do not believe in.
I'm sure Kayroo has some legalistic take on it, in fact I'm sure you must take classes in it?
The classic example all lawyers get is "how do you defend a rapist that you KNOW is guilty?". Leaving aside that there are rules about how one defends a client who admits his guilt to you but wishes to plead not guilty, it is worth considering the circumstances where a lawyer simply thinks or believes their client is guilty.
In those circumstances are we to remove the role of the jury? To stand as the ultimate arbiter of the client's fate? Our role is no more than to ensure the accused gets a fair trial and that his case is put as forcefully as the rules allow. Our belief does not come into it. The ability to make such an argument is a skill and one that is derided for the most part. Personally I think it is one of the most admirable and difficult tasks a person could ever be asked to undertake.
As ever, there's a good clip from Yes, Minister on point.
You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Kayroo View PostThis explains it pretty well. I think it's a hallmark of a mature mind to be able to put aside ones own views to pursue an objective once the purpose of doing so has some overall value.
The classic example all lawyers get is "how do you defend a rapist that you KNOW is guilty?". Leaving aside that there are rules about how one defends a client who admits his guilt to you but wishes to plead not guilty, it is worth considering the circumstances where a lawyer simply thinks or believes their client is guilty.
In those circumstances are we to remove the role of the jury? To stand as the ultimate arbiter of the client's fate? Our role is no more than to ensure the accused gets a fair trial and that his case is put as forcefully as the rules allow. Our belief does not come into it. The ability to make such an argument is a skill and one that is derided for the most part. Personally I think it is one of the most admirable and difficult tasks a person could ever be asked to undertake.This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Originally posted by Theresa View PostWhat are the rules?
It is actually the purest thing we do in an odd way. We stop representing the client in a way and instead we take up a role ensuring that the system is kept honest and that all due process was followed and the evidence stacks up.
It is an exceptionally difficult thing to do. It usually helps to remember that people confess to crimes that they did not commit all the time. So even if they did confess to you, it may well be that they are still not telling the truth.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Kayroo View PostThis explains it pretty well. I think it's a hallmark of a mature mind to be able to put aside ones own views to pursue an objective once the purpose of doing so has some overall value.
The classic example all lawyers get is "how do you defend a rapist that you KNOW is guilty?". Leaving aside that there are rules about how one defends a client who admits his guilt to you but wishes to plead not guilty, it is worth considering the circumstances where a lawyer simply thinks or believes their client is guilty.
In those circumstances are we to remove the role of the jury? To stand as the ultimate arbiter of the client's fate? Our role is no more than to ensure the accused gets a fair trial and that his case is put as forcefully as the rules allow. Our belief does not come into it. The ability to make such an argument is a skill and one that is derided for the most part. Personally I think it is one of the most admirable and difficult tasks a person could ever be asked to undertake.Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally posted by Wombatman View PostSo you would't have any qualms or reservations about defending the likes of Graham Dwyre, Weinstein or OJ, to the extent that you would exploit any known weakness in the system to get them off?
I would have no qualms defending them by putting the State to prove their case. If the State can't prove it to convince a jury then guilty or not, the person should not go to prison.
In a time when the State is expanding its powers to an unprecedented degree I presume you can see the merit in that? Graham Dwyer is the only useful example there by the way, the US system is an absolute clown car.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Manu Dibango dead at 86 from the Covid.
Cruel way for a pioneering horn-blower to have his last breath robbed.
His influence on the funk should never be underestimated!
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Some assistance please.
My wife is turning 40 on Saturday. I had planned a few days of a culinary trip to Northern Ireland to celebrate but that’s been cancelled.
So as an alternative plan I’ve ordered a projector and screen for outdoor movies as she loves the cinema. Now she knows that I’ve done this and I’m going to setup a fire pit and a comfy seating arrangement and a movie for Saturday afternoon/evening as a bit of a low key family celebration. Plus it’ll be fun as the long evenings come in and we get bored in lockdown.
What I’d like some help with is stitching together a number of photos and video birthday wishes from friends and family into a secret little video montage for her before I put the movie on. So can someone recommend a simple movie/video software editing package to simply stitch all the messages together and maybe put a music soundtrack over it? Any suggestions welcome.‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan
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Originally posted by Kayroo View PostExploit a weakness in the system? The choice of language does somewhat giveaway your point of view.
I would have no qualms defending them by putting the State to prove their case. If the State can't prove it to convince a jury then guilty or not, the person should not go to prison.
In a time when the State is expanding its powers to an unprecedented degree I presume you can see the merit in that? Graham Dwyer is the only useful example there by the way, the US system is an absolute clown car.
Refreshing that you admit to some legal systems being gravely impaired.
So no qualms about no win no fee, where you might stand to personally gain from the outcome?
No qualms about one affluent side having a premier league team and the other having a Sunday league side?
No qualms about getting stuck into an alleged victim of sexual assault akin to what happened in the Belfast rape trial.
Don't get me wrong. I respect your profession and those working in it and appreciate, to a small degree, the challenges you face.
I just get a little uneasy when words like 'admirable', 'honest' and 'pure' are associated with legal practitioners, like most of the general public. Where do you think this poor perception of lawyers comes from?Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally posted by Fullof..It View Post
Can he actually get any worse bar trying to nuke Covid?His rival it seems, had broken his dreams,By stealing the girl of his fancy.Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil,But everyone knew her as Nancy.
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Originally posted by elbows View Post
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Originally posted by CHDad View PostCan't even attempt to make an excuse for that. Absolutely shocking.
It takes probably 3 weeks to get through to everyone with consistent messaging and eventual social shaming for non compliance.
The UK are fucked because they have only started where we were 2 weeks ago from a messaging point of view. They have no control over it and dealing with a massive population difference too.
The states is going to get so out of control that they could be looking at close to a million deaths when they can’t cope with influx of people needing ventilators.
I hope I’m wrongHis rival it seems, had broken his dreams,By stealing the girl of his fancy.Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil,But everyone knew her as Nancy.
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Originally posted by elbows View Post
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Originally posted by Wombatman View PostI just get a little uneasy when words like 'admirable', 'honest' and 'pure' are associated with legal practitioners, like most of the general public. Where do you think this poor perception of lawyers comes from?
The Data Retention stuff in the case Dwyer might be seen as an exploit vector, for example.
I don't want to comment too much on an ongoing case but, in the abstract, there must be rules governing the collection and use of evidence. This is an entirely new area and the conviction was obtained in part based on some fairly new uses of technology. I don't think it's an "exploit" to query the legality of that and, of course, the consequences of any illegality. That is a component of a fair trial, to which he and every other citizen is entitled.
Refreshing that you admit to some legal systems being gravely impaired.
I'm not a huge fan of the North Korean one either. There are Innocence Projects all over the world because we get it wrong too much as it is. No legal practitioner in their right mind would ever claim the system is perfect. That's an unattainable standard. The question has to be, is it safe?
So no qualms about no win no fee, where you might stand to personally gain from the outcome?
If it increases access to justice for the less well-off then I do not see the issue. Lawyers always have a personal stake in the outcome of a case. If a barrister loses maybe the solicitor stops briefing them or maybe they won't get paid or maybe another solicitor saw the case and will think badly of them. Nobody thinking in those short term ways ever survives. And the term is misleading anyway. It's just an acceptance of a reality that your client can never pay you anyway so if you don't win you won't get paid. Accepting that at the outset just gives the client some comfort that they're not exposed to your costs if they lose, just the other side's costs.
No qualms about one affluent side having a premier league team and the other having a Sunday league side?
Doesn't happen in criminal law. Legal aid gets you the best available. All the very best do both prosecution and defence from time to time. In civil law there's no legal aid and I do have an issue with that to be honest but that's a policy issue as much as anything and not really a lawyer issue. Also you cannot criticise no foal no fee and also say that people without means should have access to better lawyers. How do you think that happens without no foal no fee?
No qualms about getting stuck into an alleged victim of sexual assault akin to what happened in the Belfast rape trial.
Not how I would have done it. And rape trials are an outlier in the legal world because the system of adversarial examination of evidence really does not properly account for the horrors that visits on the victims of sexual assault. Which is why so many legal scholars and lawyers are working on ways to make it better. I really hope they find a way.
However, until they do, everyone deserves to test the evidence of their accuser and while it's deeply unpopular to do it - lawyers have an obligation to put their client's version of events to a defendant. They must do so with absolutely no regard for the impact it could have on them personally. Sometimes lawyers go too far with that in my view, but I think they do it in pursuit of an acceptable goal.You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011
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Originally posted by Fullof..It View PostFucking Hell. As one comment said - should really stop broadcasting what he saysairport, lol
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Quiz?Last edited by DeadParrot; 24-03-20, 21:58.People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21
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Originally posted by Keane View PostUp 18% today. Are we doing fairly well?
We have tested 18k people with approx 7.3% confirmed. Based on the SK numbers we want to get that around 2.5% but we're trending in right direction.
SK have tested 320k people since Jan 20th, we have tested 18k since Feb 29th, proportionally that equates to around 190k tests.
Again it's not necessarily linear, 70% of cases concentrated in one region of SK representing 5% of their population but we're still ramping up.
Looking to countries with similar resources, demographics and timeline so Norway(3 days ahead) 2,779 cases with 12 deaths and Denmark(2 days ahead) 1,591 cases with 32 deaths.
Lots of room to improve on speed on testing but we're managing things well it appears.
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Originally posted by GimmeabreakFilling Stations are busy. I expect Diesel/Petrol is one of the last things we will run short of given reduced demand presently and that we would have several weeks supply in the country at any one time.. But that got me thinking, what sort of volume of stock is held onshore? If the boats stopped coming how ling would we be good for?Gone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.
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Originally posted by ComradeCollie View PostYeah. God knows how Putie is thinking of taking advantage.
Kinsale was due to be shut down this month, but was told to keep going at any costLast edited by newbie2; 24-03-20, 22:24.
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HSE with it's own John Hopkins Dashboard: https://geohive.maps.arcgis.com/apps...18d8e53df82e96
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Other consultant says we've the same age profile as Italy. 9 YEARS difference in median age. These are super seniors doctors
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Originally posted by Murdrum View PostHSE with it's own John Hopkins Dashboard: https://geohive.maps.arcgis.com/apps...18d8e53df82e96
Thought I read that there were a total of 9x less than 1 year olds in China.
My 2 year old has been coughing a bit the last couple of days, no temperature or anything, or any other symptoms but a little worried nonetheless.I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that
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She quoted a 1.5x daily growth rate as fact and then made some scary projections of case numbers off it. So poor on national TV. As with you, my knowledge of the physics of anything other than my areas of teaching and research is embarrassing.
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Originally posted by zuutroy View PostAs with you, my knowledge of the physics of anything other than my areas of teaching and research is embarrassing.Gone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.
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Originally posted by Murdrum View PostYes, we are doing quite well. If we continue on an 18% growth rate until the end of the month we'll finish somewhere around the 4.3k cases from a projected 15k.
We have tested 18k people with approx 7.3% confirmed. Based on the SK numbers we want to get that around 2.5% but we're trending in right direction.
SK have tested 320k people since Jan 20th, we have tested 18k since Feb 29th, proportionally that equates to around 190k tests.
Again it's not necessarily linear, 70% of cases concentrated in one region of SK representing 5% of their population but we're still ramping up.
Looking to countries with similar resources, demographics and timeline so Norway(3 days ahead) 2,779 cases with 12 deaths and Denmark(2 days ahead) 1,591 cases with 32 deaths.
Lots of room to improve on speed on testing but we're managing things well it appears.
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Originally posted by Keane View PostWhere is this advice for everyone to wear masks coming from?Originally posted by 6starpool View PostFrom hitch's head. Official medical advice is to not wear masks as most people won't be wearing them effectively anyhow.
The whole thing about wearing mask is not that it saves you from catching it, but it can help stop you from spreading it, so in China if everyone wears a mask going out it should reduce the amount of community transmissions
Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostMy pal in London his 1 year old almost certainly has it. Well his wife has it and now both him and the two kids have the same features. He's just monitoring temperature at the moment as there's not much else to do. Seems fairly manageable so far so guess they got lucky.Originally posted by Lazare View PostAm I reading that right that there's 3x babies confirmed cases here? 22x under 14?
Thought I read that there were a total of 9x less than 1 year olds in China.
My 2 year old has been coughing a bit the last couple of days, no temperature or anything, or any other symptoms but a little worried nonetheless.
Yeah this is the worst thing about this... everyone who gets it reacts differently to it or more than likely lifestyle come's into play massively
Being over weight, smoker, emphysema, diabetes, COPD and obviously the immunosuppressed are at risk and anybody over 70!
and I dont think we are doing to bad compared to others...
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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostReading Truman Capote In Cold Blood at the moment, and it's just the most beautifully written book. Every sentence seems perfect like you are gliding through the story. Don't know quite how he does it. Nothing even slightly pretensious in the writing, no excessive words, just perfectly crafted.
Give this a go if you get a chance. It includes "Hand-carved Coffins", another true-crime masterpiece and "It All Came Down", an interview with Manson associate Bobby Beausoleil, along with beautiful short-stories, novellas, portraits and essays.
Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt
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The numbers from New York are really terrifying...https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/o...ronavirus.html
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View PostThe numbers from New York are really terrifying...https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/o...ronavirus.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/n...rew-cuomo.htmlGone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.
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Originally posted by Hectorjelly View PostThe numbers from New York are really terrifying...
I'm not 100% sure of the people involved but interesting nonetheless.
If taken at face value, it shows how measures similar to ours; what it describes as "3m shelter in place" differs very little in end results from "3m lockdown(wuhan style).
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