Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[Tar.Aldarion]

My thoughts on comparing anything to the nazis is that it is not pragmatic at all, it doesn't matter how inaccurate or accurate it is, the conversation then becomes about that.

For instance it was a holocaust survivor that first compared what happened to him to what happens to other animals, at least from an oppressive mindset point of view, but going down a road like that or anything that people get emotive about is a waste of time.

[Theresa]

My thoughts on comparing anything to the nazis is that it is not pragmatic at all, it doesn't matter how inaccurate or accurate ate it is, the conversation then becomes about that.

For instance it was a holocaust survivor that first compared what happened to him to what happens to other animals, at least from an oppressive mindset point of view, but going down a road like that or anything that people get emotive about is a waste of time.

This is very fair. It’s not pragmatic. It’s inflammatory and moves the focus.

But it’s not anti Semitic.

[Strewelpeter]

It's a wonderful day where a party who permitted some fairly major anti-semitism to take place within its ranks gets beaten like a red-headed stepchild.

I think its a lot more complex than headlines like that.

There is nothing special about antisemitism, why should it be treated any differently from Islamophobia?
As far as I'm concerned racism is racism and it really doesn't make a ha'penny worth of difference if someones racism is directed at one group over and above another. Your racist opinions are ignorant, stupid and wrong. The more power and influence you have the more dangerous your ignorant opinions are.

Tories have far more rabid racists amongst their ranks and have done less about it than Labour but during the election the media coverage of the Labour party's issues became extensive, incessant and frankly disproportionately focused on a leader who has a clear and unambiguous history of anti racist but also anti zionist campaigning.

That was just one of the many ways that the Tories destroyed Labour through Imelda Marcos Principal,
Perception is real, truth isn't.

One man who has never uttered a racist thought is portrayed as a raving anti semite while a man who consistently used racist language in his newspaper columns, burned £50 noted in the face of a homeless person etc.ad nauseam gets a free pass.

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[SatNav]

Mia joined Laois school of music /music Generation in September and tonight they had a little concert as this term ends. She was singing with a group but had opportunity to do a solo which up to last night, it was a nope, no way, not doing it situation.

I arrived and said from a distance are you gonna do one. She said yes. I was so nervous for her.

Didn't seem any nerves from her doing her very first solo in front of a nice crowd. I'm so fucking proud of her. She's only 14 yrs old still my baby. Such a great child. Very happy mammy tonight

http://youtu.be/ylVqFEbv06E

[Kayroo]

Glad to see you sir.

What are your own thoughts on comparing the state of Israel to Nazi Germany?

I think comparisons don’t work. Israel is a unique state that doesn’t lend itself to comparison.

However, asking me a pointless question doesn’t change the fundamental problems with the position you’ve adopted or the manner you chose to express it.

[dobby]

How was the gig, Kayroo?

[Raoul Duke III]

So really its super easy to spread fake crap. But how much do you want to play a role in this? It might suit you this time - e.g. maybe you just don't like Muslims and therefore want to go with the Corbyn trope. Maybe Raoul for his own valid reasons doesn't like Corbyn for his support for talking to Gerry Adams, and anti-semitism is an easier thing to hang him on in a community that largely recognises Corbyn as a peacemaker in the IRA stuff. But, and this is the point, allowing any falsehoods to be a valid part of how society debates is what leads us all to the UK and US. It becomes acceptable for fiction to replace facts. And suddenly you end up on the wrong end of this and you start to complain about why can't we just debate facts, but theres no turning back as its far easier to create comfortable lies than difficult truths.

let's just wind back the conversation:

somebody asked who Momentum were, I replied:

Hard-left Trotskyites.
They all joined as Labour members, vastly outnumbering the regular guys who had been there for decades and forced Corbyn in as leader. Perfectly legally I might add.

That's where the anti-Semitism came in.

They would be the equivalent of Paul Murphy on steroids.

You, for some reason best known to yourself, started talking about Israel. Which had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

And made the objectionable statement bolded.

Although the vast majority of what has been labelled anti-semitism is in fact perfectly reasonable and admirable criticism of Israel (only a partially Jewish state - 25% Arabic, 25% or so Russians pretending to be Jewish for a visa) for treating Palestine as a Dachau-like playground. Although admittedly a very effective effort by the Israeli propaganda resources to twist it around in a manner that puts Russian state propaganda in the ha'penny place. Its also criticism that non-Israeli Jews, such as the progressive American Jewish community regularly make about Israel.

I helped you out by clarifying that there was no Israeli context whatsoever:

I'm specifically talking about the bullying of British Jewish members of Labour.

No Israelis involved.

Now...I'm not really sure what your point is.

I said nothing about Corbyn being an antisemite personally (read the above). I said there was antisemitic behaviour within the Labour Party.

His problem was not taking a strong enough position against such disgusting behaviour. But then I guess he could never really bring himself to take a position on anything. Hence he is history.

So what exactly are you trying to say?

[Raoul Duke III]

Onto happier topics, why is John Cooney not in the Ireland squad? Best No 9 in the country on this form.

[Theresa]

What matters here is not so much that something like this happened in the UK. Its how easy these falsehoods can be spread. So Israel creates a story that Corbyn is anti-semite despite all the evidence that he is just concerned for civil rights, and it is widely spread and believed. Never mind the hassle that Russia got into for trying to do the same in the US (Raoul might have mentioned the Russia story about a 1000 times but fully quiet on Israel doing far more effective interference in UK elections - I'll come back to this point later, as its not intended as an absolute dig at him).

Ireland is far from immune to this, and at a guess I would suggest far more susceptible than most. Witness the decades-long conspiracies about pylons causing cancer despite every single bit of evidence. The same recently with vaccines where Ireland was initially one of the biggest believers in killer autistic vaccines.

I was reading a story yesterday about councillors who were campaigning against a new Dublin co-living space that was seeking planning approval. Five councillors had banded together and had got most of the local community united in fury against the plan. It emerges a bit later in the story that they aren't fully sure if the place is even a co-living place (it struck me as an aparthotel, as its intended as slightly longer stays in a new hotel building). But that doesn't matter anymore as the new truth is out there that the co-livers are coming.

So really its super easy to spread fake crap. But how much do you want to play a role in this? It might suit you this time - e.g. maybe you just don't like Muslims and therefore want to go with the Corbyn trope. Maybe Raoul for his own valid reasons doesn't like Corbyn for his support for talking to Gerry Adams, and anti-semitism is an easier thing to hang him on in a community that largely recognises Corbyn as a peacemaker in the IRA stuff. But, and this is the point, allowing any falsehoods to be a valid part of how society debates is what leads us all to the UK and US. It becomes acceptable for fiction to replace facts. And suddenly you end up on the wrong end of this and you start to complain about why can't we just debate facts, but theres no turning back as its far easier to create comfortable lies than difficult truths.

Whether we are in favour of a particular point or not, its worth us going to the effort to ensure we aren't spreading falsehoods, as if reasonably sensible folks like us are spreading false crap then what hope for everyone else and broader society?

This is a good read.

https://twitter.com/jackpowerIT/status/1205464687908999174?s=08

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[DeadParrot]

Pat Shortt is a fucking poison.

[DeadParrot]

An absolute fucking poison

[SatNav]

Pat Shortt is a fucking poison.

I used to hang around with him back in our mod days. Completely different back then not funny / comedy or anything. Used to go to his house and all. Well to do family half the family were either priests or teachers, his brother actually painted a pic of me circa 1996.he was sound back then tbf

[DeadParrot]

There is a fundamental difference in left v right voters in certain markets.
The bar for disenfranchisement is so much lower on the left. Labour completely and utterly shat the bed not realising how poisonous Corbyn was. Also. I think I personally underestimated the desire for Brexit still. I honestly, living in my bubble, thought people had seen through and were actively against Brexit. That is obviously not the case.
Personally, I find it hard not to fall into what about ism when thinking about the antisemitism on the left. It exists. It's wrong. And as I said above, if the left isn't whiter than white, disenfranchisement is gonna happen.

[Theresa]

I used to hang around with him back in our mod days. Completely different back then not funny / comedy or anything. Used to go to his house and all. Well to do family half the family were either priests or teachers, his brother actually painted a pic of me circa 1996.he was sound back then tbf

[DeadParrot]

It gets worse.
Just as well this isn't live

[DeadParrot]

It gets worse.
Just as well this isn't live

[Guest]

There is a fundamental difference in left v right voters in certain markets.
The bar for disenfranchisement is so much lower on the left. Labour completely and utterly shat the bed not realising how poisonous Corbyn was. Also. I think I personally underestimated the desire for Brexit still. I honestly, living in my bubble, thought people had seen through and were actively against Brexit. That is obviously not the case.
Personally, I find it hard not to fall into what about ism when thinking about the antisemitism on the left. It exists. It's wrong. And as I said above, if the left isn't whiter than white, disenfranchisement is gonna happen.

Is there truly a desire for Brexit to happen as strong as the vote indicates or is it more a case that people are so disenfranchised by the process at this stage that they simply wanted the party that will finally end it.

I'm curious if Labour had taken a position on Remain earlier and formulated a clear plan on how to bring about a 2nd referendum would they have made significant headway in the closing the gap.

It seems the desire for the Brexit process to end has been the key driver over the desire to actually Leave.

[Theresa]

One of the lads in my group is living in Boston.

Contrarian. Loves a good argument. Closet Republican, although tries to play it off as the court jester. Tries to give us the "you only get the lib side of the arguments" "The media is libwashed" etc etc. Fully rags on Greta Thunberg, thinks impeachment is a sham.

Anyway. He is always claiming he doesn't really believe all that but is just trying to balance the views with out admittedly left leaning bunch (I mean we are irish...).

We have a lads dinner when I get home on the 22nd. Currently working feverlishly to photoshop him into pictures with trump, at trump rallys, wth epstein, with greta, with Bill Cosby. Cosby has nothing to do with this but fuck me itll be funny.

Going to put him on trial, these are my exhibits.

[DeadParrot]

One of the lads in my group is living in Boston.

Contrarian. Loves a good argument. Closet Republican, although tries to play it off as the court jester. Tries to give us the "you only get the lib side of the arguments" "The media is libwashed" etc etc. Fully rags on Greta Thunberg, thinks impeachment is a sham.

Anyway. He is always claiming he doesn't really believe all that but is just trying to balance the views with out admittedly left leaning bunch (I mean we are irish...).

We have a lads dinner when I get home on the 22nd. Currently working feverlishly to photoshop him into pictures with trump, at trump rallys, wth epstein, with greta, with Bill Cosby. Cosby has nothing to do with this but fuck me itll be funny.

Going to put him on trial, these are my exhibits.

As evidenced over and over again in the last few years, you are who you pretend to be

[dobby]

It gets worse.
Just as well this isn't live

You know you can just hit a button and turn it off. If you're going to carry on watching it dont be bringing the rest of us down on a Friday night ya miserable bastard

[DeadParrot]

You know you can just hit a button and turn it off. If you're going to carry on watching it dont be bringing the rest of us down on a Friday night ya miserable bastard

Me father in law lives for the late late.
All I have is caustic hatred for the format.
Don't you dare that that from me dobby

[Theresa]

Is there truly a desire for Brexit to happen as strong as the vote indicates or is it more a case that people are so disenfranchised by the process at this stage that they simply wanted the party that will finally end it.

I'm curious if Labour had taken a position on Remain earlier and formulated a clear plan on how to bring about a 2nd referendum would they have made significant headway in the closing the gap.

It seems the desire for the Brexit process to end has been the key driver over the desire to actually Leave.

In the spirit of today...

If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it's probably a nazi.

[ComradeCollie]

Rory Stewart looking more anorexic than David Bowie in the mid 1970's.

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[balfejohn]

What did Pat Shortt do?! Thats the guy from Limerick?

He opened his mouth

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[luckforsome]

... Is Pat Shortt the guy that came on at the very start?...I turned him off very swiftly... Jeez Shane Macgowan looks really bad- can't believe he is only 61...He can barely talk never mind sing...Really sad to see him in such a state...

[DeadParrot]

What did Pat Shortt do?! Thats the guy from Limerick?

This is one of the most tragic performances I have ever seen by a man that is embarrassingly a shadow of his former self. A live most wasted and ravaged by excess, legal and illegal....
A moment to reflect on his heyday, when his artistic prowess shaped a nation

SPOILER

[balfejohn]

... Is Pat Shortt the guy that came on at the very start?...I turned him off very swiftly... Jeez Shane Macgowan looks really bad- can't believe he is only 61...He can barely talk never mind sing...Really sad to see him in such a state...

But a half dead Shane is still a lot better than a giddy Ryan tubs beside him

[balfejohn]

This is one of the most tragic performances I have ever seen by a man that is embarrassingly a shadow of his former self. A live most wasted and ravaged by excess, legal and illegal....
A moment to reflect on his heyday, when his artistic prowess shaped a nation

SPOILER

Did he ever get done for shooting JR

[oleras]

What did Pat Shortt do?! Thats the guy from Limerick?

Oi !! Tipp...

[SatNav]

Awaiting a pre recording.. Shane can't string a sentence

[SatNav]

What did Pat Shortt do?! Thats the guy from Limerick?

LOL did ya read my post.

[DeadParrot]

This appears seconds away from running off the rails

[ArmaniJeans]

Kirstys 20th anniversary this week and all, and they are killing her song as well.

[Guest]

He's the best singer on stage

[SatNav]

What did Pat Shortt do?! Thats the guy from Limerick?

Omg brutal 🙈

[Dice75]

Kirstys 20th anniversary this week and all, and they are killing her song as well.

Should a let the Cavan one sing it, at least she's different, the other one well past it. Only stayed up in the end to see if i scooped the €30k and nobody won it. Tis all a scam.

[ArmaniJeans]

Awaiting a pre recording.. Shane can't string a sentence

He still got the 'best singer in the duet' medal there, which is pretty shocking,

[luckforsome]

Should a let the Cavan one sing it, at least she's different, the other one well past it. Only stayed up in the end to see if i scooped the €30k and nobody won it. Tis all a scam.

...Entered it myself then got the message to say Jan 3rd- wankers...

[SatNav]

Sinead o Connor would have been the perfect choice there omfg that was horrific

[premierstone]

Sinead o Connor would have been the perfect choice there omfg that was horrific

Dont think Shane would have approved of that somehow!

[Lazare]

Camille O'Sullivan was there and all, what a wasted opportunity.

[Strewelpeter]

Couldn't bring myself to watch Shane being dragged out to be milked for another freak show, his tragedy was not to die when he killed himself decades ago.

[Strewelpeter]

As evidenced over and over again in the last few years, you are who you pretend to be

Again, Perception is real, truth isn't

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[newbie2]

17 takes for that final number - i shit you not

[Solksjaer!]

Even if McGowan was in the prime of his health , he'd have left that place in a wheelchair . Wtf.

[oleras]

17 takes for that final number - i shit you not

Time and a half ?

[Hectorjelly]

I thought it was great, a very touching performance. I stopped in to a pub for a pint after going to see Motherless Brooklyn, and the whole pub sang along to fairy tale in New York. There wasn't a dry eye in the place by the end.

[Solksjaer!]

I thought it was great, a very touching performance. I stopped in to a pub for a pint after going to see Motherless Brooklyn, and the whole pub sang along to fairy tale in New York. There wasn't a dry eye in the place by the end.

Yep the drunks drowning out that mess would improve things a bit. Did you sing at the top of your voice HJ. Ya scumbag ya maggot, ya cheap lousy <censored>

[Lao Lao]

I thought it was great, a very touching performance. I stopped in to a pub for a pint after going to see Motherless Brooklyn, and the whole pub sang along to fairy tale in New York. There wasn't a dry eye in the place by the end.

Jaysus, A pub that shows the Late Late and where the patrons not just watch it but join in sounds like the grimest place on earth.

[Guest]

I thought it was great, a very touching performance. I stopped in to a pub for a pint after going to see Motherless Brooklyn, and the whole pub sang along to fairy tale in New York. There wasn't a dry eye in the place by the end.

I find it hard to believe there wasnt a dry eye in the place listening to that. As SP said, dragged out on stage to be peddled and subsequently make a fool of himself. Nothing pulling on the heartstrings in that performance, it was just sad, nothing more.

[dobby]

Wp HJ, 3 bites in a row. Ye gullible cunts

[Lazare]

lol, for 18 years now people are saying McGowan's TV appearances are exploitation and that he'll be dead within a week.

[Solksjaer!]

Wp HJ, 3 bites in a row. Ye gullible cunts

HJ doesn't Josh around with the likes of us .

[Solksjaer!]

lol, for 18 years now people are saying McGowan's TV appearances are exploitation and that he'll be dead within a week.

Well be was literally wheeled out this time. So it really applies now. Only 61 . 18 years ago he was early 40s and still killing it . So don't get that .