Bad Beat/Moaning/Venting - pray for Lazare

[LuckyLloyd]

how does the Guardian print this stuff?

They pull it from the same putrid well that they pulled "rape culture" and safe spaces out of. The conclusion of some people I really love and respect today was "sexism" as the cause of Clinton's defeat. They don't want to understand or engage (and neither does swathes of the other extreme either I'm sure). They just want the safe loving embrace of confirmation bias.

I commend you for your consistently objective take on this election cycle and backing your analysis with cold hard cash.

My conclusion for the rest of us is to stop clicking around links and opinions that are backed up with no action. Get involved. Doesn't have to be party politics. Volunteer, donate, whatever. Brexit and Trump are the products of smug satisfaction and inaction. Evil triumphs when good men, etc. And yes, writing a piece in the Guardian is doing nothing.

[hotspur]

Brexit and Trump are the products of smug satisfaction and inaction.

They really aren't.

[Strewelpeter]

The conclusion of some people I really love and respect today was "sexism" as the cause of Clinton's defeat.

You really and truly believe that it had nothing to do with sexism

Obv no one reason explains any of this but that special sort of contempt that modern society reserves for the older woman is one significant component. to say otherwise is either moronic or a wilfully ignorant attempt to deny such prejudice.

[Strewelpeter]

nah snip that I'm sure its too raw

[LuckyLloyd]

Check out the NYT Exit polling data. The trends you think are there aren't. It's a desire for change across the demographics. Clinton wasn't offering change, and to be honest she wasn't offering a clear message. Trump spouted a ton of nonsense, but he screamed "change" and "America".

It's the economy stupid
Change versus more of the same
And don't forget about immigration

You can sit there pretending 47% of the American electorate are sexist and racist if you wish. It's your choice.

[oleras]

Very enjoyable.



Tear in my eye...

[mdoug]

Radiohead tickets, ireland tickets, other tickets. BBV never delivers.

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[Flushdraw]

Would there be any interest in going for a few Xmas pints in the next few weeks? I haven't seen most of ye in ages

Would love a few scoops and some bantz. Might even try to remember getting home this time.

Friday 25th or a Saturday 26th would be a great choice of day for this Count me in if its one of those because I'll be in Ireland

[LuckyLloyd]

If it's about change and the power of Trump's message then why did more people vote for Hilary than Trump?

Trump didn't persuade more people than Hilary with his message. The best received message of this election was Hilary's - hence why she got more votes. It just so happens that the US doesn't equally respect who people have voted for.

Oh look, that's a trite point tbh. Enough people still voted for him to be elected as per the system. So the message resonated enough. Gore won the popular vote in 2000, so what.

The bottom line is people are doing themselves a disservice if they want to park their analysis in and around 'America is just racist and sexist, hurr durr'.

Won more black voters than Romney.
Won more hispanic votes than Romney.

Because unfortunately the above seems to be the case and it doesn't fit. Which makes the whole thing far more complicated and nuanced than people would like it to be I'm afraid.

[Guest]

Some good quotes in this

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/09/26/president-trumps-first-term?intcid=mod-most-popular

According to Bruce G. Blair, a research scholar at the Program on Science and Global Security, at Princeton, Trump encountered a U.S. nuclear-arms negotiator at a reception in 1990 and offered advice on how to cut a “terrific” deal with a Soviet counterpart. Trump told him to arrive late, stand over the Soviet negotiator, stick his finger in his chest, and say, “Fuck you!”

[Raoul Duke III]

Yeah, wonder too how many voters in the states actually matter, so many states are uncompetitive.

It does seem fundamentally unfair that an uncommitted voter's vote in Florida is essentially worth 10,000 * an Alabaman's vote.

There were solid historical reasons for devising the Electoral College but it does seem outdated in terms of modern politics. For 80% of states, they effectively have no real impact.

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[Raoul Duke III]

Also; I heard someone make a good point yesterday about both Brexit and Trump.

We shouldn't try and analyse either through the lens of politics. Both are essentially sociological phenomena.
People feel themselves left behind and ignored (no matter whether this is objectively true or not). They then express this politically by voting for the candidate\movement that best exemplifies this feeling. The internet acts as a magnifier.

Sounded semi-plausible to me but I really want to read a Hotspur dissertation on this topic.

[Guest]

It does seem fundamentally unfair that an uncommitted voter's vote in Florida is essentially worth 10,000 * an Alabaman's vote.

There were solid historical reasons for devising the Electoral College but it does seem outdated in terms of modern politics. For 80% of states, they effectively have no real impact.

Had same conversation with flatmate last night, New Hampshire runs the country some years, all the visits to the same places, must get more spent on them/promise a lot more.

It is awful that some guy would can't decide runs the show

Still,UK first past the post system is no better if you happen to live in a stronghold of the opposite persuasion, your vote is basically worthless!

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[Guest]

All those coal miners who were anti-Hilary because she wanted to close the coal mines and reinvest in those areas should visit British mining areas and see how they are still screwed post Thatcher.


That was their out and they basically blew it, now the democrats will say fuck them and the GOP will go on ignoring them due to being votes in the bag

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[Raoul Duke III]

Weirdly people are voting for brexit and Trump for the same reason as they are voting for AAA-PBP, Maduro, Duarte, Morales.

Exactly. It's not an expression of approval in any specific ideology.

It's more:

[Strewelpeter]

Sorkin is a bit annoyed

It’s hardly the first time my candidate didn’t win (in fact it’s the sixth time) but it is the first time that a thoroughly incompetent pig with dangerous ideas, a serious psychiatric disorder, no knowledge of the world and no curiosity to learn has.

And it wasn’t just Donald Trump who won last night—it was his supporters too. The Klan won last night. White nationalists. Sexists, racists and buffoons. Angry young white men who think rap music and Cinco de Mayo are a threat to their way of life (or are the reason for their way of life) have been given cause to celebrate. Men who have no right to call themselves that and who think that women who aspire to more than looking hot are shrill, ugly, and otherwise worthy of our scorn rather than our admiration struck a blow for misogynistic shitheads everywhere. Hate was given hope. Abject dumbness was glamorized as being “the fresh voice of an outsider” who’s going to “shake things up.”

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/aaron-sorkin-donald-trump-president-letter-daughter?mbid=social_twitter

[Lord Sir Banter]

And lols at the idea of pointing to Trump getting more Hispanic votes than Romney as part of your 'i'm so rational' point.

Your own confirmation bias never led you to look further into that number to see that there are a lot more possible Hispanic voters this time than four years ago. So getting more votes is not amazing. Plus a lot of those extra votes came from Florida where a lot of Cubans are unhappy at the Cuban peace deal that Trump attacked.

Nope. It was as a percentage of the voting electorate. You aren't helping yourself.

[MrsFlushdraw]

Urgent Help Needed!

Hey folks, I used Parcel Motel when we lived in Donegal, obviously we don't now. I am getting a Christmas present delivered to Dublin for when Tony is over visiting in a few weeks and was changing my parcel motel to Dublin.

I went into it and changed it to Omniplex area in Santry.
My question, It hasn't changed my parcel motel address? will it just stay the same Newtonabbey in NI? and they then change the shipping to Dublin?

Just waiting to buy so if anyone can help that would be great.

Cheers

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[ArmaniJeans]

Until a few years ago I thought Hispanic meant only people originally from Hispaniola island (ie., Haitians or Dominicans), and could never figure out why such a tiny number of immigrants were considered such an important group to chase for votes.

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[V for Vendetta]

Hey folks, I used Parcel Motel when we lived in Donegal, obviously we don't now. I am getting a Christmas present delivered to Dublin for when Tony is over visiting in a few weeks and was changing my parcel motel to Dublin.

I went into it and changed it to Omniplex area in Santry.
My question, It hasn't changed my parcel motel address? will it just stay the same Newtonabbey in NI? and they then change the shipping to Dublin?

Just waiting to buy so if anyone can help that would be great.

Cheers

Yup it's as simple as that. A brilliant service to be fair.

I've had stuff delivered to Carlow to Cork and to Dublin as the need arose without changing anything other than my home delivery location.

[Keane]

I opened my semiconductor physics lecture today with: 'all of the semiconductor jobs are going back to the US, and you won't be allowed in you filthy immigrants, so this course is now nuclear holocaust survival'. Got a few lols.

Not much chatter about it around here. In fact, I would have expected a lot more of the traditional 'what does this mean for Ireland' naval gazing in general.

I guess it's not positive anyway :-/

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[Fiery Wasabi]

Hey folks, I used Parcel Motel when we lived in Donegal, obviously we don't now. I am getting a Christmas present delivered to Dublin for when Tony is over visiting in a few weeks and was changing my parcel motel to Dublin.

I went into it and changed it to Omniplex area in Santry.
My question, It hasn't changed my parcel motel address? will it just stay the same Newtonabbey in NI? and they then change the shipping to Dublin?

Just waiting to buy so if anyone can help that would be great.

Cheers

The Northern Ireland address is everyone's Parcel Motel address, the only difference is the PM account number. Once you have changed the pickup address then everything will be fine.

Edit; Beaten to it by V.

[Strewelpeter]

[MrsFlushdraw]

Yup it's as simple as that. A brilliant service to be fair.

I've had stuff delivered to Carlow to Cork and to Dublin as the need arose without changing anything other than my home delivery location.

Thanks Olly and Martin, will get it ordered now then so!

[shano1888]

Sorkin is a bit annoyed



http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/...social_twitter

What a pathetic rant. Jesus.

[Strewelpeter]

What a pathetic rant. Jesus.

He's entitled to be angry

The New Yorker is more measured

The election of Donald Trump to the Presidency is nothing less than a tragedy for the American republic, a tragedy for the Constitution, and a triumph for the forces, at home and abroad, of nativism, authoritarianism, misogyny, and racism. Trump’s shocking victory, his ascension to the Presidency, is a sickening event in the history of the United States and liberal democracy. On January 20, 2017, we will bid farewell to the first African-American President—a man of integrity, dignity, and generous spirit—and witness the inauguration of a con who did little to spurn endorsement by forces of xenophobia and white supremacy. It is impossible to react to this moment with anything less than revulsion and profound anxiety.

Denny and Lloyd and other fellow travellers may welcome this development and parse the clear and unambiguous facts of his observed behaviour by falsely claiming that all such observation is whining liberals claiming that everyone who voted for Trump is a racist and or misogynist when it is obvious that no one is saying such a thing.

I am trying to hold out some little bit of hope that Denny's smug Ah shure hes not really like that at all, hes a genius businessman and he will only do sensible sane things unlikely as it seems could be part of the story. The truth is no one knows what the administration will be like but with house, senate and Supreme court in his pocket its very hard to envisage how a blubbering thuggish manchild with a pathological trigger reaction to any humiliation, no matter how slight, gives us any room for anything other than fear and dread.

[mdoug]

One of my linkedfinance's have been forced to file for insolvency, rip my few hundred. Fuck you abrakebabra/o brien's

[Lao Lao]

it was a fake address, just a joke. The guy is very much a liberal and anti Trump

[dobby]

Quite interesting for anyone in need of casual reading:



What is a 100% legal move in a game or sport that is frowned upon and viewed as a dick move?

Got a lol at the sumo one

[Keane]

Got a lol at the sumo one

Genuinely wiping away tears over the 'He putt fucked you dawg' exchange

GLOLM

[Denny Crane]

He's entitled to be angry

The New Yorker is more measured



Denny and Lloyd and other fellow travellers may welcome this development and parse the clear and unambiguous facts of his observed behaviour by falsely claiming that all such observation is whining liberals claiming that everyone who voted for Trump is a racist and or misogynist when it is obvious that no one is saying such a thing.

I am trying to hold out some little bit of hope that Denny's smug Ah shure hes not really like that at all, hes a genius businessman and he will only do sensible sane things unlikely as it seems could be part of the story. The truth is no one knows what the administration will be like but with house, senate and Supreme court in his pocket its very hard to envisage how a blubbering thuggish manchild with a pathological trigger reaction to any humiliation, no matter how slight, gives us any room for anything other than fear and dread.

Impressive for a misogynist to win the vote of white women when running against...a white woman imo.

I think you've been looking at Trump through the prism of an incredible biased media, you're still claiming he called all Mexicans are rapists without looking at what he actually said. You're taking your views from the kind of media that writes that a vote for Trump is a vote to reintroduce segregation. That these people see it as such a shocking victory should give you a sense of their grip on reality. Also seems odd when there's legitimate criticism that you can make, but instead you keep going for the fascist angle.

Markets rallied after his acceptance speech, they don't think the US has elected a lunatic.

White women voted 53% for Trump and 43% for Clinton.

54% of male college graduates voted for Trump, as did 45% of female college graduates.

Trump collected 29% of the Latino vote – two percentage points more than his 2012 predecessor, Mitt Romney.

How did he win those votes if he's the monster you think he is?


Also, The Irish Times doesn't seem to respect US democracy, just angry their person didn't win

SPOILER

[mdoug]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXfltmzRG-g

[careca]

haven't clicked on the link yet but I'm hoping my extensive billiard playing youth is recognised in the article.

surely not as bad as registering then unregistering for a tournament just to win a bet That was a classic in fairness. Some shit storm followed

[TheDrunkenOne]

Getting the urge to buy a new kitchen

[ionapaul]

Impressive for a misogynist to win the vote of white women when running against...a white woman imo.

I think you've been looking at Trump through the prism of an incredible biased media, you're still claiming he called all Mexicans are rapists without looking at what he actually said. You're taking your views from the kind of media that writes that a vote for Trump is a vote to reintroduce segregation. That these people see it as such a shocking victory should give you a sense of their grip on reality. Also seems odd when there's legitimate criticism that you can make, but instead you keep going for the fascist angle.

Markets rallied after his acceptance speech, they don't think the US has elected a lunatic.



How did he win those votes if he's the monster you think he is?


Also, The Irish Times doesn't seem to respect US democracy, just angry their person didn't win

SPOILER

Jesus, the IT lineup of columnists wringing their hands about Trump; Lara Marlowe, Roisin Ingle, Fintan O'Toole. We have our own 'basket of deplorables' to worry about, no need to look across the pond!

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[mdoug]

They're gone?

The one that applied on linkedfinance down in wexford is, and therefore so is my money. Thankfully only 400 as I opted to spread out my money. They might pay it back one day, who knows

[Keane]

In Waterpolo there is no foul for hits below the water. You can squeeze all the dick you can get away with and the ref's will penalize them for retaliating.

[Strewelpeter]

Impressive for a misogynist to win the vote of white women when running against...a white woman imo.

Turkeys voted for christmas shocker.

I think you've been looking at Trump through the prism of an incredible biased media, you're still claiming he called all Mexicans are rapists without looking at what he actually

You are demonstrably wrong on both counts, I'm quite capable of making my own mind up and read way beyond my comfort zone regularly. Its possible to parse that quote but he literally says
They’re rapists
and later is forced to row back on that statement to say instead that many are rapists. This is laughable seeing as he is an actual self confessed rapist - grabbing people by the pussy uninvited counts as rape as far as I'm concerned.

Serious question do you really believe that it is possible to use racism to gain voters and not be a racist? Clue: it isn't.

[hotspur]

Sounded semi-plausible to me but I really want to read a Hotspur dissertation on this topic.

Here are my thoughts of today on this.

Brexit and Trump were both brought about through the votes of non-university educated people. We have got to the stage sociologically where rationality has become our religion, and bigotry and intolerance of unintelligent people has gotten out of control, safely directing our out-group contempt which can no longer safely be directed to races, genders, ethnic groups, sexual minorities, religions.

We are witnessing a revolution of the less privileged "unintelligent". Our Democratic system has always been stacked in favour of certain types of people, at least at the level of the executive, distinguished mainly by the colour of their tie or political lapel. The ordinary unintelligensia representatives being relegated to the margins of the legislature or local politics.

I am going to suggest that Trump is as much a victory for the discriminated against lower intelligent person who possibly takes crap from a boss in lower paid job and is derided by intelligent sections of society and the media as Obama was for black people.

He is "one of us". Not in socioeconomic terms obviously. And he even went to an Ivy League college and says all the time that he's very intelligent, but that too doesn't matter. He says dumb things and is loud and proud about it. He is boorish, unsophisticated, and just a million miles away from his opponents in the Republican nominee race and from Hillary. He is the Martin Luther King of the ordinary, unintelligent, unsophisticated American whose views are laughed at and dismissed because of the "citation needed" note that has been assigned to their whole world views.

It, and Brexit, and Healy-Raes are an undercover social "rights" revolution. There are no "dumb pride" marches, no-one speaking out explicitly to the issue - I can't even think of an "ism" that describes our discriminatory attitude towards less intelligent people. And so it will emerge as proxy expressions of protest, taking everyone by surprise as the "rational" decisions are voted against by a silent population who feel devalued.

It's perhaps appropriate that it's the star of "The Apprentice" who is the figurehead, as I suspect the diet of innumerable TV competitive shows is having the effect of stoking the embers of enfranchisement.

I think we will experience more of this in the coming times, and we could possibly begin to line our pockets with predictions grounded in this (really feel for Denny for not sticking). I have said here a number of times over the past couple of years that our worship of rationality and intelligence has gone too far, and I foresee more problems. I have been as guilty as anyone of the prejudice "ism" of intelligence in the past, but not any longer. I think it is prejudice, I think it's wrong, and I think it has consequences, some of which we are beginning to see.

This is true democracy in action, because there are very large amounts of less educated and less intelligent people.

Here is a prescient article from a couple of months ago in The Atlantic which may have pointed to yesterday's result:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/07/the-war-on-stupid-people/485618/

[DeadParrot]

Would love a few scoops and some bantz. Might even try to remember getting home this time.

I'm a shell of my former self drinking wise. (and I was never great to begin with)
I imagine it'll be me asleep on the bar this time

[Charlie Sheen]

Quite interesting for anyone in need of casual reading:



What is a 100% legal move in a game or sport that is frowned upon and viewed as a dick move?

'The Oil Check' in wrestling was the first thing that popped into my head.
I'm pretty sure people have been charged for doing it.

[mdoug]

Have a 40 minute layover in Munich with 2 different airline companies, hopefully this one goes well

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[mdoug]

So we are all voting for dobby for king of IPB now right?

[Iago]

It's animal farm being played out in real life. Giving the peons the delusion that each of them is as important as the actual intelligent rational people in the room has led only to them thinking they can genuinely vote as they want rather than as their betters desire.

We need to put the balance back in place and reduce voting rights to only those who have demonstratable intelligence and rationality.

[Lord Sir Banter]

should have said that so

And lols at the idea of pointing to Trump getting more Hispanic votes than Romney as part of your 'i'm so rational' point.

Your own confirmation bias never led you to look further into that number to see that there are a lot more possible Hispanic voters this time than four years ago. So getting more votes is not amazing. Plus a lot of those extra votes came from Florida where a lot of Cubans are unhappy at the Cuban peace deal that Trump attacked.

The irony is delicious m8.

[dobby]

So we are all voting for dobby for king of IPB now right?

I was just about to post a ticket contact that's on the way to Vienna with a spare but can GFY now anyway.

[Tar.Aldarion]

It's animal farm being played out in real life. Giving the peons the delusion that each of them is as important as the actual intelligent rational people in the room has led only to them thinking they can genuinely vote as they want rather than as their betters desire.

We need to put the balance back in place and reduce voting rights to only those who have demonstratable intelligence and rationality.

I have this painting up on my wall in honour of the president-elect (Major from Animal Farm)

[CHDad]

[mdoug]

I was just about to post a ticket contact that's on the way to Vienna with a spare but can GFY now anyway.

[Lord Sir Banter]

Reminds me of werewolf. Hitch and strewl should be concerned when they are agreeing so much.