Bad Beat/Moaning/Venting - pray for Lazare

[NewApproach]

The inheritance tax threshold for children inheriting the family home will raise to €280,000, the start of a process that will see it increase to €500,000 over a three to five year period.

Was this expected? Loved the debate on this in here a few weeks ago.

Yea very much expected.

[RichieM]

This has to be the most leaked budget ever, takes all the fun out if it.

As usual 90% of the attention is on tax impact, hardly any on the quantum or value for money of the Expenditure side.

Terrible way for POC to finish. With POC, POM, Sexton and SOB casualties of Sunday we may have won the battle but lost the war. Was always going to be the risk of such an intense and bruising encounter. Argentina will have plenty more to offer where that came from on Sunday too...

Yes indeed they will bring the physicality but also unfortunately a bit more invention. The fact that they are as well rested as they could be having played their last serious match in the first week against new zealand is also a problem.

I hope they kept some cracking lines back for the team talk

[Zod]

See, they should rebrand as the Old but not Oldest IRA.

Then it would all be very clear.

Actually, the Old IRA were a thing too


And Good IRA getting shot by bad IRA get commemorated at this

http://www.bealnamblathcommemoration.com/

This branding will never get off the ground.

[Solskjaer]

Whatever happened to the lads who did the voiceovers on Adams ,McGuinness et all back in the day when their twang was banned from our news broadcasts due to suspected blaggardism with murderous intent. I remember eating my jam samdwich wondering wtf was going on.

Ah fado fado, when going up north meant yer folks car was checked for smuggled goods and the border had english accents and guns Don't know yer born with free access to the north and the voices of said blaggards free to enjoy.

[Zod]

Lets just say the IRA are whatever FG/FF want them to be once it means they can electioneer about them.

[Strewelpeter]

Whatever about him, he was in the company of eastern european mercenaries who he met while doing contract security for Shell in Mayo.

He was working for a crowd from Naas down in Mayo apparently.

[Zod]

He was working for a crowd from Naas down in Mayo apparently.

That's a story in itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Risk_Management_Services#Corrib_Gas_Project

[Strewelpeter]

The point is that old, older, oldest, official, provisional, real, continuity IRA are all the exact same thing.
Deeply sinister forces who exploit the adolescent attraction towards utopian nationalism for financial gain.
The differences between the various organisations are nothing more than the generational differences between when people were recruited and who was recruiting them. None of them, except maybe the oldest, ever served any cause other than making money for the criminals running the racket.

[Emmet]

Could someone post up an organisational flow chart of the IRAs please?

Totally confused here.

Don't think this is the right one.

SPOILER

[6starpool]

My grandfather was in the old IRA, the one pre independence, and fought on the anti treaty side in the civil war.

[Jibzzzz]

Wicklow Gaol is always worth visiting. It is steeped in unfortunate but real Irish history. Well worth a visit. Very few places like it in Ireland. Don't rush around it, take it in.

Don't bother with the re-enactments that they have, listen to the guide and take it in. Chilling in some spots but class that they have that kind of place still standing with proof, facts and history.

Go.

Excellent thanks for that. Saturday afternoon it is and be back in time for Rugby.

Trying to give up the Friday drinking to save for Vegas, so cheap Saturday day trips with a fresh head are ideal.

Did Glasnevin last Saturday was class, would recommend. Was dying to do it since the "1 Million Dubliners" documentary.

[Raoul Duke III]

My grandfather was in the old IRA, the one pre independence, and fought on the anti treaty side in the civil war.

You mean the Good Old IRA and Bad Old IRA respectively.

Hope he got the pension out of it.

[Denny Crane]

Could someone post up an organisational flow chart of the IRAs please?

Totally confused here.

Don't think this is the right one.

SPOILER

All I know is that INLA and the IPLO were sort of the clowns of the whole group.

[hotspur]

The point is that old, older, oldest, official, provisional, real, continuity IRA are all the exact same thing.
Deeply sinister forces who exploit the adolescent attraction towards utopian nationalism for financial gain.
The differences between the various organisations are nothing more than the generational differences between when people were recruited and who was recruiting them. None of them, except maybe the oldest, ever served any cause other than making money for the criminals running the racket.

Power corrupts. That doesn't render the fundamental motivation behind most of PIRA leaders exploitation for financial reasons.

I think there are chasms of difference between various groups at different points of time. A recent RIRA member from Dublin will have pretty much nothing in common with most 1972 Derry or Belfast Provos.

We may completely disagree with their actions, but I think it's an error to dismiss all of their motivations.

[RichieM]

The point is that old, older, oldest, official, provisional, real, continuity IRA are all the exact same thing.
Deeply sinister forces who exploit the adolescent attraction towards utopian nationalism for financial gain.
The differences between the various organisations are nothing more than the generational differences between when people were recruited and who was recruiting them. None of them, except maybe the oldest, ever served any cause other than making money for the criminals running the racket.

Strewel and lloyd since you are both the opposite ends of the argument just wonder how you would feel about a specific amnesty.

If there was a total amnesty on all pre peace process activities - no recourse so long as it is admitted to so that the family's can have closure\bodies for burial where possible.

On the trade off for such a blanket amnesty real actionable intel would need to be provided on the splinter groups - membership, weapons caches\purchasing pipelines, training areas. Literally everything - all of this will be know to people in the decommissioned Republican and unionist circles.

Obv purely academic as no side would wholesale sell out their ex brothers in arms but if they are really against the splinter groups they should either be shopping them into the PSNI or executing the guys who are going awol and against orders themselves.

[Keane]

What are the thoughts on inheritance tax?

I think it was Fintan O'Toole I heard making a sensible point on it that as unearned income which kind of entrenches wealth in small subsets based only on shared bloodlines it makes sense that it would be taxed fairly heavily.

On the other hand I think most people would like the idea of being able to leave their house to their kids without the kids getting such a tax bill for it they have to sell up just to cover the costs and a little extra.

Is there something in place to exempt family homes already? I think I could get on board with an exemption like that, but think I lean towards the view that it should be taxed pretty highly otherwise.

[Raoul Duke III]

All I know is that INLA and the IPLO were sort of the clowns of the whole group.

Don't forget the following:

South Armagh Republican Action Force:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Armagh_Republican_Action_Force

Cover name for the Good IRA so they could murder unarmed Protestants.

Catholic Reaction Force

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Reaction_Force

And not forgetting the CIRA and the RIRA (who may or may not be the Bad IRA)

[Raoul Duke III]

Strewel and lloyd since you are both the opposite ends of the argument just wonder how you would feel about a specific amnesty.

If there was a total amnesty on all pre peace process activities - no recourse so long as it is admitted to so that the family's can have closure\bodies for burial where possible.

On the trade off for such a blanket amnesty real actionable intel would need to be provided on the splinter groups - membership, weapons caches\purchasing pipelines, training areas. Literally everything - all of this will be know to people in the decommissioned Republican and unionist circles.

Obv purely academic as no side would wholesale sell out their ex brothers in arms but if they are really against the splinter groups they should either be shopping them into the PSNI or executing the guys who are going awol and against orders themselves.

We have an amnesty already, in deed if not in word.

Personally I'd like to see a Truth and Reconciliation Committe, SA-style. But that would lead to many unpleasant truths being aired so I doubt anyone wants that.

[RichieM]

What are the thoughts on inheritance tax?

I think it was Fintan O'Toole I heard making a sensible point on it that as unearned income which kind of entrenches wealth in small subsets based only on shared bloodlines it makes sense that it would be taxed fairly heavily.

On the other hand I think most people would like the idea of being able to leave their house to their kids without the kids getting such a tax bill for it they have to sell up just to cover the costs and a little extra.

Is there something in place to exempt family homes already? I think I could get on board with an exemption like that, but think I lean towards the view that it should be taxed pretty highly otherwise.

Fuckers this is of no benefit to me what so ever and likely never will be.
Pension hole and an aging population will soon mean that people will be selling out the equity in their houses to fund their later years soon anyway. This problem will take care of itself.

Obv I think this since if my parents hit 100 I wont need to worry about inheritance tax until I am in my 70's- perfectly reasonable assumption since they are healthy, we have no major genetic illnesses in 3 of my 4 grandparents lines and they have the money to take care of themselves.

Basically barring something unexpected Keane inheritance tax is missing our generation and hitting our kids.

EDIT
Should say I am not annoyed about not getting to live in my parent house and want their stuff it quite the opposite in that if I haven't made something of myself by aged 70 than a windfall is probably better bypassing me and going to my kids or nephews and nieces anyway.
This tax will change numerous times in the next 40 years so just annoyed about a tax break knocking around that will hopefully never benefit me.

[Denny Crane]

What are the thoughts on inheritance tax?

I think it was Fintan O'Toole I heard making a sensible point on it that as unearned income which kind of entrenches wealth in small subsets based only on shared bloodlines it makes sense that it would be taxed fairly heavily.

On the other hand I think most people would like the idea of being able to leave their house to their kids without the kids getting such a tax bill for it they have to sell up just to cover the costs and a little extra.

Is there something in place to exempt family homes already? I think I could get on board with an exemption like that, but think I lean towards the view that it should be taxed pretty highly otherwise.

I can see the different view points. Unearned income like that should be taxed.

Same time it's a bit of a kick in the teeth, you pay half your income in tax, dirt while saying your deposit, massive amounts of vat and stamp duty and then when you kick the bucket they swoop in for another sliver!

[RichieM]

We have an amnesty already, in deed if not in word.

Personally I'd like to see a Truth and Reconciliation Committe, SA-style. But that would lead to many unpleasant truths being aired so I doubt anyone wants that.

Indeed we do but the second part of it would be digging up all the bodies and giving them back to the familys

[Keane]

I can see the different view points. Unearned income like that should be taxed.

Same time it's a bit of a kick in the teeth, you pay half your income in tax, dirt while saying your deposit, massive amounts of vat and stamp duty and then when you kick the bucket they swoop in for another sliver!

I suppose the comeback to that would just be that people shouldn't be focussing on accumulating wealth to try and pass on to other people after they are dead!

On a different topic, I saw this post on boards earlier which I thought was good also:

Cut child benefit and spend the money on the following measures:

- School Books, further savings through central tender
- School Uniforms, ditto
- Expansion of School meals, especially for disadvantaged areas
- Subsidised after-school childcare for working parents (not for those on social welfare)
- Subsidised childcare for pre-school children of working parents where full parental leave has been used
- Increased funding for child sporting facilities.

There is nearly €2 bn a year spent on child benefit. All of the above would cost less than that and be much better for children.

[NuckChorris]

What are the thoughts on inheritance tax?

I think it was Fintan O'Toole I heard making a sensible point on it that as unearned income which kind of entrenches wealth in small subsets based only on shared bloodlines it makes sense that it would be taxed fairly heavily.

On the other hand I think most people would like the idea of being able to leave their house to their kids without the kids getting such a tax bill for it they have to sell up just to cover the costs and a little extra.

Is there something in place to exempt family homes already? I think I could get on board with an exemption like that, but think I lean towards the view that it should be taxed pretty highly otherwise.

The government got tax when the money was earned. The banks made a killing from the mortgage interest when houses were paid off. Don't think we really need "heavy" tax on the money as soon as we die. Encourages everyone to just blow their savings and leave the next generations to start from scratch. I'm think once people earn money and have paid whatever tax is due on it that should be the end of it. Can do what they want then. Pension levies, inheritance tax and whatever others there are out there are just thieving.

[6starpool]

You mean the Good Old IRA and Bad Old IRA respectively.

Hope he got the pension out of it.

He certainly did, plus the whole flag on the coffin and gun salute thing when he died 20 years ago.

[NuckChorris]

I suppose the comeback to that would just be that people shouldn't be focussing on accumulating wealth to try and pass on to other people after they are dead!

Why?

[Strewelpeter]

Inheritance tax is a tax on people who didn't realise they were wealthy enough to have to pay it.

It affects only people who happen to leave usually property bloated estates of 1 - 5 million and those with estates so large that they wouldn't be practically able to make suitable arrangements, those cases will often involve things like stately homes.

[Strewelpeter]

I suppose the comeback to that would just be that people shouldn't be focussing on accumulating wealth to try and pass on to other people after they are dead!
:

Isn't that what all the great cities of the world are built on?
You might as well say its stupid to plant trees that will outlive us.

[Strewelpeter]

On a different topic, I saw this post on boards earlier which I thought was good also:


Originally Posted by Godge View Post
Cut child benefit and spend the money on the following measures:

- School Books, further savings through central tender
- School Uniforms, ditto
- Expansion of School meals, especially for disadvantaged areas
- Subsidised after-school childcare for working parents (not for those on social welfare)
- Subsidised childcare for pre-school children of working parents where full parental leave has been used
- Increased funding for child sporting facilities.

There is nearly €2 bn a year spent on child benefit. All of the above would cost less than that and be much better for children.

You'd be doing very well to get all that for €2 bn

[Keane]

Wouldn't it be better for everyone if people spent the bulk of what they accumulate rather than hoarding it to pass as an unearned advantage to their small group of blood kin after they are dead?

I'm only spit-balling here, could be totally wrong-thinking but that's how it appears to me...

EDIT: I mean, when you think of it - the money the government would tax from inheritances is money that will be spent almost immediately by the government and so go back into stimulating the economy, people making a big pile of loots to pass on to their brood at some indeterminate point in the future is good for nobody bar the brood.

Encouraging them to blow the loots before they shuffle loose the mortal coil would have a similar stimulating effect, wouldn't it?

[Keane]

You'd be doing very well to get all that for €2 bn

Well, however much of it you would get, they seem like more noble expenses than equal payments to everyone in children's allowance?

Would seem to help the needy proportionally more.

[Raoul Duke III]

Well, however much of it you would get, they seem like more noble expenses than equal payments to everyone in children's allowance?

Would seem to help the needy proportionally more.

Parents are addicted to Child Benefit, especially the ones who don't need it.

Only someone who wasn't running for election could contemplate its removal.

[Keane]

Parents are addicted to Child Benefit, especially the ones who don't need it.

Only someone who wasn't running for election could contemplate its removal.

glolm, I'm well aware that the right approach and the politician's approach are rarely aligned!

[Strewelpeter]

Well, however much of it you would get, they seem like more noble expenses than equal payments to everyone in children's allowance?

Would seem to help the needy proportionally more.

Oh I'd be all for that list. I doubt that school meals could be run effectively and while I wouldn't disagree with anything on the list I don't think it would be fair or feasible to take away a universal benefit and distribute it just to those on lower incomes.

[Keane]

Oh I'd be all for that list. I doubt that school meals could be run effectively and while I wouldn't disagree with anything on the list I don't think it would be fair or feasible to take away a universal benefit and distribute it just to those on lower incomes.

That's not really what you would be doing, but FOC books, uniforms, meals etc would have a greater positive impact on those who have less than those who have plenty.

[AndyFatBastard]

Scrap school uniforms altogether and save everyone a fortune.

[Keane]

Scrap school uniforms altogether and save everyone a fortune.

Uniforms were always sold as a means of limiting pressure on lower income folks and to stop kids being bullied for having shit clothes etc.

[RichieM]

Scrap school uniforms altogether and save everyone a fortune.

Are School uniform trousers not made out of a really cheap but durable material. Uncomfortably hot in the summer and cooling in the winter are not exactly what you would look for when designing garments for grown ups. Clarks shoes are much cheaper than trainers so again a plus when your kids feet grow 2 sizes a year or whatever they do.

I would imagine most parents prefer the idea of buying 2 uniforms for the year rather than forking out for kids clothes all the time so they can stay fashionable.

[Raoul Duke III]

Oh I'd be all for that list. I doubt that school meals could be run effectively and while I wouldn't disagree with anything on the list I don't think it would be fair or feasible to take away a universal benefit and distribute it just to those on lower incomes.

So don't take it away. Tax it.

[RichieM]

Parents are addicted to Child Benefit, especially the ones who don't need it.

Only someone who wasn't running for election could contemplate its removal.

If there was subsidised child care for 2 working parent families I think you would see them give it up in an instant.

[Raoul Duke III]

If there was subsidised child care for 2 working parent families I think you would see them give it up in an instant.

Including after-school care.

Green with envy when Hitch was posting about the typical French school day.

[Raoul Duke III]

My kids don't wear uniforms now and won't in secondary either.

Visions of the young fella coming to me on his wedding day looking clueless with a tie in his hand.

[careca]

any calculator to see how much this usc cut is worth in take home? 20 a fortnight?

[Emmet]

Who'd be a smoker?

What happens when we all move to electric cars and stop smoking?

[Guest]

My kids don't wear uniforms now and won't in secondary either.

Visions of the young fella coming to me on his wedding day looking clueless with a tie in his hand.

Are you sending them to Mount Mental?

[Guest]

Walked into the lab to find this. Think someone's trying to tell me something...

[DeadParrot]

as a contractor

You'll get the same allowance you do now for holidays, plus an extra 50% I think though!

so none

[ArmaniJeans]

What happens when we all move to electric cars and stop smoking?

I think drivers will always be seen as a cash cow - they'll blue dye the electricity for cars and woe betide anyone caught with non-coloured electricity in their cars.

Smoking - loss of revenue should hopefully be offset in half a generation by savings in healthcare, if a government is willing to look that far forward.
Though when your 17 year old niece announces she's been been smoking for 3 years despite all the available information then you have to question whether we'll ever give up.

[Raoul Duke III]

Are you sending them to Mount Mental?

Probably.

[Raoul Duke III]

any calculator to see how much this usc cut is worth in take home? 20 a fortnight?

Who gets paid by the fortnight?

There'll be a rake of caculators available from this afternoon. You should be several hundred better off imo.

[Emmet]

Changes to USC : Entry threshold to USC from €12,012 to €13,000

1.5% rate cut to 1%. This applies on the first €12,012 of income;

3.5% rate cut to 3%. This applies on income in excess of €12,012 up to an increased threshold of €18,668.

7% rate to 5.5%. This applies on income in excess of €18,668 up to €70,044.

.

[Keane]

Who gets paid by the fortnight?

I do would you believe.

[LuckyLloyd]

Strewel and lloyd since you are both the opposite ends of the argument just wonder how you would feel about a specific amnesty.

If there was a total amnesty on all pre peace process activities - no recourse so long as it is admitted to so that the family's can have closure\bodies for burial where possible.

On the trade off for such a blanket amnesty real actionable intel would need to be provided on the splinter groups - membership, weapons caches\purchasing pipelines, training areas. Literally everything - all of this will be know to people in the decommissioned Republican and unionist circles.

Obv purely academic as no side would wholesale sell out their ex brothers in arms but if they are really against the splinter groups they should either be shopping them into the PSNI or executing the guys who are going awol and against orders themselves.

You're assuming PIRA members would have detailed knowledge of dissident movements. Maybe that is the case, but wouldn't have assumed so myself.

Generally though, a full T & R process is something I've long been in favour of once it is all inclusive and comes with that amnesty. The notion that things pre GFA are still criminal and nominally 'under investigation' is nonsense and leads to the worst kind of political grandstanding. We all want peace and to have issue focussed politics. Any vehicle that would allow that would be welcomed by me.

[Raoul Duke III]

You're assuming PIRA members would have detailed knowledge of dissident movements. Maybe that is the case, but wouldn't have assumed so myself.

Generally though, a full T & R process is something I've long been in favour of once it is all inclusive and comes with that amnesty. The notion that things pre GFA are still criminal and nominally 'under investigation' is nonsense and leads to the worst kind of political grandstanding. We all want peace and to have issue focussed politics. Any vehicle that would allow that would be welcomed by me.

Do you think Gerry would tell all about his role in the IRA?

[Zod]

Lower corporation tax for companies who invest in "Innovation"*

*innovation to be defined by some 45 year old man dressed like a hipster and wearing Google Glass

[Emmet]

Cashless society here we go!

12c tax on ATM transactions (@SP) as well as stamp duty on ATM cards.

No Stamp Duty on debit cards / contactless payments..

[Emmet]

Lower corporation tax for companies who invest in "Innovation"*

*innovation to be defined by some 45 year old man dressed like a hipster and wearing Google Glass

#LovinInnovationSummit

[Emmet]

Hoho, a rucus!

18k houses to be delivered in Dublin by NAMA by end of 2020.

[ArmaniJeans]

Kinda miss the Lenihan multiple budgets of 2008 and 2009, everyone gathered round the TV in the office listening attentively to everything he said, interpreting every nunance and facial tic. Glory days.

[RichieM]

Any update on SOB's banning for tickling Pape?

[shrapnel]

Any update on SOB's banning for tickling Pape?

nothing yet. There were a few hearings today so it could be they're waiting for them all to go through before announcing anything