Bad Beat/Moaning/Venting - pray for Lazare

[Guest]

A grand a month to cover bills, food, very occasional going out, and a drinking problem, isn't struggling?

Public sector is less takehome. But you're right, its not classical struggling. We did though have to downgrade from Nespresso to Lidl coffee cartridges, which seemed like struggling.

Clearly the wrong word, I suppose I meant that you wouldn't be as comfortable as leftwing politicians might think on that income in Dublin. It's 'getting by' at best.

Its a lot more tax efficient to have a drinking problem in France too

[Lplated]

It's not the 'rich' who pay too little tax - it's actually the low paid.

So what?

So, when you add all the tax paid (income related and VAT), the low paid will have paid much more (proportionately) than the rich - so to say they pay 'too little tax' maybe unfair.

[shrapnel]

Well I had quite a bit of other earnings too, so wasn't actually struggling, but its more this notion that someone on €75k is living the dream.

Have way more disposable income in France despite earning less and having another kid.

Looks like we may be heading back that way in 18 months or so. London has pretty much ruined us, and the thought of free (or almost free) high quality education for the boys compared to what we are paying now, seems a no Brainer. Lots of other factors as well, but all financial unfortunately.

[Guest]

I'm voting from the bottom up in this election. I'd dearly like to vote for a party with a lower tax / smaller government approach but the option doesn't seem to be available. So for me it has become a matter of selecting the candidate I most don't want to be elected and following that approach through the remainder in order

It's the first election I can recall where I've felt my views are completely unaligned with any of the main political parties.

Like this voting g from the bottom up idea,have a woeful selection to choose from. Going to assign huge negative weighting to parties\candidates who ignore the no junk mail sign on my letterbox, SF and FG only ones to ignore it so far

[dobby]

Going to a Table Quiz in a bit m8s

Awww. Dads first night out

[Raoul Duke III]

So, when you add all the tax paid (income related and VAT), the low paid will have paid much more (proportionately) than the rich - so to say they pay 'too little tax' maybe unfair.

You can't compare tax on discretionary spending (food is zero rated generally so don't go there) with income tax. Apples and oranges.

[Raoul Duke III]

Its a lot more tax efficient to have a drinking problem in France too

In France it's not a 'drinking problem', it's an 'expression of cultural identity'. If I get to meet up with HH next summer, we will certainly hope to have a night of expressing our cultural identity.

[Guest]

Assume tonights leaders debate is going to be an hour and a half of evasive nothings brought to you thanks to the communications clinic? Would make you long for some Trump. At least eamon Ryan won't be there

[mdoug]

@mdoug: Did you post the answer to the bridge Q?

Check out this beauty of a puzzle: GCHQ Christmas Puzzle

and the solution:
GCHQs-Christmas-card-puzzle---how-did-you-do.aspx

Going to give it a proper rattle next year

SPOILER

Sunglasses

We actually got that one, we didn't get 2 of the ones you got although I really liked #1 even though we didn't get it.

[LuckyLloyd]

I'm voting from the bottom up in this election. I'd dearly like to vote for a party with a lower tax / smaller government approach but the option doesn't seem to be available. So for me it has become a matter of selecting the candidate I most don't want to be elected and following that approach through the remainder in order

It's the first election I can recall where I've felt my views are completely unaligned with any of the main political parties.

The political landscape really hasn't changed since I was a teenager to any great extent bar the demise of the PDs who genuinely offered a fiscal conservative / socially liberal platform. What has changed since 2011? FG and Labour certainly haven't.

I'm voting for Lucinda, and my preferred fg candidate is pro lower taxes.

Lucinda - can you really approve that religious control your life nonsense? It's nice your FG man likes lower taxes though. He'll have a front seat to the essential structure not being changed much!

[Lplated]

You can't compare tax on discretionary spending (food is zero rated generally so don't go there) with income tax. Apples and oranges.

You're looking at it from the timeline of 'payday'. My point is that if instead you look at it from the timeline of 'the night before the next payday' - the amount of total tax paid by less well off will be disproportionately much higher than a cursory look at income tax suggests.

Following your line to its logical conclusion - take more from the lower paid at the income tax timepoint, then you'll have more applications for (and entitlement to) family income supplement, much less incentive to move from dole/social welfare reliance to work, thus needing more in taxation which (because you've already raised from the lower paid), will now have to come from middle incomes etc... etc...

[mcnugget]

The political landscape really hasn't changed since I was a teenager to any great extent bar the demise of the PDs who genuinely offered a fiscal conservative / socially liberal platform. What has changed since 2011? FG and Labour certainly haven't.

There is some kernel of promise in the Social Democrats imo

[SatNav]

Thoughts on Red Wine mixed with Coke ( cola obv)
I hate Red wine but a friend recommended mixing with coke, so rooting around a found a Red , saw ingredients on back and spot cherries , I love cherries so got cherry coke . Its fucking awesome . Kinda hoping to get 2 nights out of one bottle of red.

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2015/09/in-defense-of-the-calimocho-red-wine-and-coke-toge.html

[Jibzzzz]

Anywhere similar to Bison, Pittbros and Aussie BBQ in the city center?

Looking to grab something quick, easy and filthy this evening.

Went with Jo burger, was nice, would eat again but not in a hurry.

[Raoul Duke III]

You're looking at it from the timeline of 'payday'. My point is that if instead you look at it from the timeline of 'the night before the next payday' - the amount of total tax paid by less well off will be disproportionately much higher than a cursory look at income tax suggests.

Following your line to its logical conclusion - take more from the lower paid at the income tax timepoint, then you'll have more applications for (and entitlement to) family income supplement, much less incentive to move from dole/social welfare reliance to work, thus needing more in taxation which (because you've already raised from the lower paid), will now have to come from middle incomes etc... etc...

Oh you would have to reduce SW and greatly incentivise moving off SW obviously.

[LuckyLloyd]

There is some kernel of promise in the Social Democrats imo

Yeah maybe. Not hard to see them making up the numbers in a FG / Lab led deal and having that promise extinguished

[CHDad]

Thoughts on Red Wine mixed with Coke ( cola obv)
I hate Red wine but a friend recommended mixing with coke, so rooting around a found a Red , saw ingredients on back and spot cherries , I love cherries so got cherry coke . Its fucking awesome . Kinda hoping to get 2 nights out of one bottle of red.

http://www.pastemagazine.com/article...coke-toge.html

When I run out of drink on 12 or more hour benders and there is only red wine left I will mix it with coke.

[Lplated]

Oh you would have to reduce SW and greatly incentivise moving off SW obviously.

Whatever chance you had of a political party making a 'right' move on tax, the chances of actually tackling the SW system are somewhere between slim and none.

Like someone commented on here lately, the thing I have against FG is they wasted a good crisis.

[Emmet]

There is some kernel of promise in the Social Democrats imo

They're just Labour?

[Raoul Duke III]

Whatever chance you had of a political party making a 'right' move on tax, the chances of actually tackling the SW system are somewhere between slim and none.

Like someone commented on here lately, the thing I have against FG is they wasted a good crisis.

If you could take the middle class out of the SW net (child benefit being the main offender), you might get some momentum behind tackling the SW budget.

Likewise, take out the PS unions and Health, Education should be reformable.

An Irish Thatcher, that's what we need.

[Emmet]

Chance I'll be able to stream the 'debate'?

Is it weird that I reckon it'll be more like a special episode of The Late Late than Prime Time?

[Jibzzzz]

Lol Sp and Hitch!!

[elbows]

Sadie just puked when Michael Martin came on the screen. She liked Enda and Joan. Yawned at Gerry Adams and then screamed at the tele

[ionapaul]

Huge win for Connacht just there against the Dragons - bonus point win to back to the top of the Pro 12 for now. Wasn't on TV so had to listen to the radio coverage on Galway Bay FM, was an amazingly tense finish!

[KevIRL]

This debate is head wrecking, shudder to think what it would be like with the 8 or 9 of them the greens want.

[Emmet]

Jesus she's some bag.

[Emmet]

Enda with his hand in the air is gas.

[SatNav]

Sky Atlantic right now , VG

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5331776/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Emmet]

Michael Martin smashing it

[thechamp87]

Connacht a big price away to Dragons at 6-5 tonight, Dragons had a tough 80 mins in Belfast last weekend whereas Connacht had a week off. Dillane and Marmion released from Ireland camp are part of a very strong bench that should be able to make a big impact against a tiring team in the second half.

Great shout mate.

[White Knight]

20% tax. 20-25 minute commute (flight) to Dublin. Living the dream.

[Guest]

Love Endas pronounciation of vehickels.

[Guest]

Fondly remember getting picked up in a garda car from my school along with my date a woman 21 years ago for my debs in a garda car.
Pulled right in front of the school gates at lunch break.

Had told the girl i was bringing my father was picking us up early some shock when a blue and white Sierra rocked up.
All these cut backs means extra curricular police activitys like this are probably no more.

[MrsFlushdraw]

Thoughts on Red Wine mixed with Coke ( cola obv)
I hate Red wine but a friend recommended mixing with coke, so rooting around a found a Red , saw ingredients on back and spot cherries , I love cherries so got cherry coke . Its fucking awesome . Kinda hoping to get 2 nights out of one bottle of red.

http://www.pastemagazine.com/article...coke-toge.html

Done that years ago with normal coke, tasted like a fruit punch. Goes down easy.

[Guest]

The presenter in blue has some rack on her.

[Raoul Duke III]

Gerry got some hammering on law and order but they are all depressingly shite - and old.

[Emmet]

So uninspiring

[Guest]

Gerry got some hammering on law and order but they are all depressingly shite - and old.

Martin is 55 rest in there 60s

[Silver-Tiger]

Yes, Pat. I'd hold her down until the cops came.

[horatio1]

Martin>>Bruton>Kenny=Adams so far Imo.

[elbows]

Martin>>Bruton>Kenny=Adams so far Imo.

Enda doing better than I thought he would. Bar looking like a kid who is trying to ask to go to the toilet.

[Emmet]

When it zooms out it looks as though they're just using the Weakest Link's studio.

[Western_Sean]

The political landscape really hasn't changed since I was a teenager to any great extent bar the demise of the PDs who genuinely offered a fiscal conservative / socially liberal platform. What has changed since 2011? FG and Labour certainly haven't.

I felt FG offered a reasonable alternative last time. I think they wasted the crisis by failing to address the public service overhead. As a tax payer I don't see that they have the objective of creating value for tax payers which I expected that they would deliver last term.

As such while I felt had an alternative voting option last time I'm not happy with either the performance of the incumbents or the opposition this time around.

[Raoul Duke III]

Martin>>Bruton>Kenny=Adams so far Imo.

Burton might be right on lots of things but her delivery is atrocious.

[darwinatemyhamster]

Never mind these clowns on the telly, I just heard that the Olsen twins turn 30 this summer.

[coillcam]

Burton might be right on lots of things but her delivery is atrocious.

She's got that nagging ould wan monotone drone that does my head in.

Has Enda been getting major meeeja training over the last few years? Communication clinic or some of those crowd?

[eagle eye]

I'm almost embarrassed to be Irish after watching that.

If we could remove Gerry Adam's history with the IRA and murder from people's minds then he would be leading SF into the government I think. He certainly did very well in that debate.

Micheal Martin did well too.

Enda Kenny didn't do as bad as I expected but was still poor.

Joan Burton did a great job at lowering the already tiny Labour vote imo. She was a disaster and I'd imagine she put people right off voting Labour.

[Raoul Duke III]

She's got that nagging ould wan monotone drone that does my head in.

Has Enda been getting major meeeja training over the last few years? Communication clinic or some of those crowd?

All four of them are terrible. If my local Renua candidate wasn't that screaming freak Terence Flanagan, I'd vote for them on the grounds that they have a young-ish leader and some actual policies.

[Guest]

I felt FG offered a reasonable alternative last time. I think they wasted the crisis by failing to address the public service overhead. As a tax payer I don't see that they have the objective of creating value for tax payers which I expected that they would deliver last term.

As such while I felt had an alternative voting option last time I'm not happy with either the performance of the incumbents or the opposition this time around.

This exactly. They had such an opportunity for drastic reform that could all be blamed on FF and they blew it. I

[mdoug]

These lads always have the toppest of videos, definitely must make it a mission to go see them live sometime

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6fyWs8KSdE

[6starpool]

This exactly. They had such an opportunity for drastic reform that could all be blamed on FF and they blew it. I

The problem with this though is that if they did this, given the bloated nature of it and the loud voices of the unions they would be facing a similar electoral meltdown to FF last time out, despite the fact it would have unequivocally have been for the proper good of the country. Politics is sadly only about 1 thing, and that is to make sure you can get re-elected the next time there is an election, and all policies ultimately are driven by the goal of not upsetting too many people at a time.

[hotspur]

Fecking debate isn't up on TV3 yet.

[CHDad]

Tiocfaidh ár lá m8s

[RichieM]

Biggest shock for me in the debate was that anyone was expecting anything different.

Reelection>the party>the local constituency>the nation.

in fairness to Martin I met him a few times in smyths off baggot st and he is quite sound and even got a round in for a few of us once. Enda the bollix spilt my pint in the gingerman one night and didn't get me another or apologise.

Unfortunately I can't vote for bar etiquette, debating skills or any other such flashy stuff. Just have to decide which party I think has the least number of people who would fail in the real world - fg still topping that list for me.

[AndyFatBastard]

Fucken drunk mods shirkin their duties amirite?

[hotspur]

Fucken drunk mods shirkin their duties amirite?

Hotspur was lynched.

He was an...

SPOILER

Army man

[AndyFatBastard]

Hotspur was lynched.

He was an...

SPOILER

Army man

FFs now I have lots of info. WTf am I gonna do wit hthat?

[mdoug]

And questions from the quiz chadders? entertain us

[Mellor]

Have no idea how people live in Dublin on the supposed average household income of about €45k.

Had a basic income of €75k there and take home after pension, pension levy, VHI, etc was €3,600. (Presume its a fair whack more takehome in private sector). €1,100 of which went to creche, €1,400 on renting a basic apartment, leaving a grand for the month. Had other earnings too so it wasn't too bad, but if you're struggling on €75k, I can't see how €100k is easy streets fatcatland.

Is the €45k average dublin salary is ex-pension, or inclusive. Pension is part of your €75k salary package. But the package is made up of basic+pension(+whatever else you've got in there ). I'd assume salary stats are quoting basic only.
So, $3,600 a month take home is maybe $65k gross (based on RD3 numbers above). So 20k ahead of the "average-dublin-person" (let's call him John), that you can't believe survives. Of course only 60% of that is reaching your pocket, so that's now €12k (€1k/m)

However, because single income John isn't paying for a bleeding creche, he has an extra €1,100 each month. Average John is probably paying average rent too. Which means he can save maybe €400/m on the €1,400 you are hemorrhaging each month.
All up with an extra €500 in his pocket, John isn't doing too bad.


Tl;Dr
John makes more money that Hitch