Bad Beat/Moaning/Venting - pray for Lazare

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[careca]

1873 smarties.

Keeping the tickets myself though

[Emmet]

Regarding homelessness, I think the budgeted spend (when you consider it per person affected) per homeless person in Ireland is €40k.

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[Guest]

Day off...golf lesson with Shane Lowry later...dat weather

[ComradeCollie]

Just seen someone using an airwheel. Lazy fucker http://www.theairwheel.com/shop/

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[careca]

Before you go, Dr Water Master. This finding of an underground ocean on a Saturn moon (aparently the ocean is accessible through air vents to the surface, so NASA are planning to fly a mission into one of them in the next few years).

The question: if a manned space craft was to make it to that planet, and had the right type of protective spacesuit, could they technically swim in that ocean? Like, is it water water, or not quite what we'd think of as water?

Sure who's to stop them

[shrapnel]

Just seen someone using an airwheel. Lazy fucker http://www.theairwheel.com/shop/

there's a good few of those around london now.

[SatNav]

Just seen someone using an airwheel. Lazy fucker http://www.theairwheel.com/shop/

jaysus thats retarded lol Id walk faster ffs

yer woman coming out of the lift lol ffs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0wdWLJPGLY

[pokerhand]

Just seen someone using an airwheel. Lazy fucker http://www.theairwheel.com/shop/

Loads of them in LA and saw a few in Vancouver.

[Guest]

Before you go, Dr Water Master. This finding of an underground ocean on a Saturn moon (aparently the ocean is accessible through air vents to the surface, so NASA are planning to fly a mission into one of them in the next few years).

The question: if a manned space craft was to make it to that planet, and had the right type of protective spacesuit, could they technically swim in that ocean? Like, is it water water, or not quite what we'd think of as water?

On phone now so too lazy to type a long answer. Water is water but purity is important. If its water with a high concentration of impurities like sulphuric acid you don't want to swim in it.

[RichieM]

nah your perspective is the problem with the general approach to homelessness. You essentially want them to treat themselves on the streets so they are good enough to have a home.

Of course they are mentally ill / primarily addicted to stuff. That's why they are sleeping on the fcking dirty street in Irish weather.

The issue is that the traditional approach of dry hostels / Christian guilt-laden care is not the right way to sort out these problems.

Have a look at the US / Canadian Housing First movement and see some of the spectacular results that come about by absolutely switching around our thinking on treating the homeless.

There are maybe 500 people who actually sleep rough the rest of the 4k figure is made up of people living in hostels and hotels waiting for corporation housing.

They have the option to take rent allowance and move to the sticks where it will cover the cost but want to live in the town center so stay put. That is there choice and fuck em if they are not happy with how quickly the tax payers are building there houses.

In terms of the sleeping rough homeless they should be picked up as they are either so heavily addicted so as to be a danger to themselves, have mental health problems and I imagine in a lot of cases are both. Either way the mental capacity to refuse care and treatment is really not there and rather than building them a cardboard house, drying them out and providing long term psychiatric care will be more expensive but the only thing that will work.

[Raoul Duke III]

One dodgy batch of heroin.....

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[Raoul Duke III]

At some stage though, you have to accept responsibility for your own life and choices.

I'd far rather see my taxes going towards resettling Syrian refugees than in putting some drug-addicted criminal in a nice, clean gaff with an unlimited supply of methadone.

[Emmet]

Its not that straightforward. You're thinking of this as a choice. No-one in their right mind chooses to sleep on the streets. And how exactly are they to find that house in the sticks? Maybe in between injecting their balls with heroin they could pop onto Daft and send a few inquiring emails. I guess then they pop on the bus and head out for some showings and persuade the owners that they're the best deal in town.

The Housing First idea recognises that this is not how it works. First of all - you start with respect, immediate housing, and this is all given to you without you having to do a thing. To my mind, they should also be given heroin, vodka, crack cocaine, whatever they need, until they choose to change.

Its a very different situation to feeling rightfully peeved about people claiming unemployment when they could be working. These are people who are essentially gone beyond hope.

The current system instead expects that they act like a fully functioning member of society in order to get help all while sleeping on the streets in their own piss.

Can I choose to change to put myself into this scenario with free housing and unlimited booze and drugs?

[shrapnel]

jaysus thats retarded lol Id walk faster ffs

no you don't lol, those things are fast when they want to be.

[AndyFatBastard]

At some stage though, you have to accept responsibility for your own life and choices.

What does that even mean? "Oh I accept I fucked up my life, please give me a job now, I promise not to do it again?". For one reason or another, these people are fucked up. Any strategy that involves punishing them for not getting their act together is doomed to fail, because the majority will not pass the test.

This conservative doctrine of personal responsibility is proven bollox. Viable solutions to homelessness and addiction problems are about the rest of us accepting that if we don't contain them they're gonna cause all kinds of havoc. We've tried imprisoning people for "vagrancy", it makes the problem worse. It's time to accept you've either gotta look after them or suffer through all the problems that naturally follow from generational poverty and deprivation.

Did you even watch The Wire???

I'd far rather see my taxes going towards resettling Syrian refugees than in putting some drug-addicted criminal in a nice, clean gaff with an unlimited supply of methadone.

whynotboth.jpg

[RichieM]

Its not that straightforward. You're thinking of this as a choice. No-one in their right mind chooses to sleep on the streets. And how exactly are they to find that house in the sticks? Maybe in between injecting their balls with heroin they could pop onto Daft and send a few inquiring emails. I guess then they pop on the bus and head out for some showings and persuade the owners that they're the best deal in town.

The Housing First idea recognises that this is not how it works. First of all - you start with respect, immediate housing, and this is all given to you without you having to do a thing. To my mind, they should also be given heroin, vodka, crack cocaine, whatever they need, until they choose to change.

Its a very different situation to feeling rightfully peeved about people claiming unemployment when they could be working. These are people who are essentially gone beyond hope.

The current system instead expects that they act like a fully functioning member of society in order to get help all while sleeping on the streets in their own piss.

I agree with for the guys sleeping on the streets this is not an option and the house first is interesting idea for them indeed. I think the number for people in that situation is probably on around 500 in Ireland as I said. I think they need much more help than just a house of course and in a lot of cases I would have thought long term care is probably what is required.

In terms of the other 3,500 who are in temporary accommodation in hostels/hotels on waiting lists for corporation housing they are functioning people who are not in a dire situation and can either put up with the wait lists or look to move elsewhere in the country where there are houses. Those are the ones who I dont feel are in a bad situation and we should be worrying about more than the guys fleeing from ISIS.

My main issue was that the figure of 4k is not the figure sleeping rough. In fact most of those 4k are not even mentally ill\addicted to drugs I would bet. It is a much smaller problem than that and at 500 out of a population of over 4m not the worst statistic. Obv it should be zero tho as we are a civilised country and I dont disagree with that.

[Tar.Aldarion]

door to door sales will save the music industry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41hEhqb1Od4

[mdoug]

Tar obviously with deadparrot on ignore.

[Denny Crane]

One dodgy batch of heroin.....

That guy on the Seán O'Casey Bridge must have apologised to me a hundred times for asking for money at this stage.

[eamonhonda]

no you don't lol, those things are fast when they want to be.

Has she infected you with the lol thing or are you taking the piss?

[Keane]

Can I choose to change to put myself into this scenario with free housing and unlimited booze and drugs?

You wouldn't even if you could, really.

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[AndyFatBastard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bbG1DDjmkY

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[Denny Crane]

They don't do Sunday lunch, I agree with you though.

Ah, must be going senile, was sure I had been there on a Sun, I guess not.

whynotboth.jpg

Someone said to me the other day they're a capitalist
'I want more stuff than I can afford "
"Ugh I think that's socialism"

[shrapnel]

Has she infected you with the lol thing or are you taking the piss?

know your audience innit!!

[Emmet]

You wouldn't even if you could, really.

I wouldn't. But I've met people who would.

I went on a date with a girl here who's friend has had 4 kids (aged 22) because it entitled her to a bigger house. People do all sorts of stuff that you or I would not swap for all the time!

I am absolutely in favour of a welfare state in sorts, however it is careful to keep an eye on how far the needle swings left and right. There are times when some people see things as an incentive. It's important to at least consider this.

There are no easy answers, because we're not all the same people with the same values.

[Keane]

The one thing you'd have to say for the "sure we can't even look after our own homeless, how can we take in refugees" argument is that it's invariably made my people who wouldn't cross the road to help our homeless either.

[Denny Crane]

Living on the south side for the first time in my life and the most noticeable difference is all the homeless here read, and seem to voracious readers at that. The other day I passed a guy doing an impressionist oil painting, very different to the zombies on the other side!

[Keane]

I wouldn't. But I've met people who would.

I went on a date with a girl here who's friend has had 4 kids (aged 22) because it entitled her to a bigger house. People do all sorts of stuff that you or I would not swap for all the time!

I am absolutely in favour of a welfare state in sorts, however it is careful to keep an eye on how far the needle swings left and right. There are times when some people see things as an incentive. It's important to at least consider this.

There are no easy answers, because we're not all the same people with the same values.

Johann Hari has an interesting book about the war on drugs, junkies, what the correct approach is etc.

The evidence he presents is pretty compelling that when you do the sort of things Hitch is talking about above things get better for everyone, junkies and normies alike.

People sitting in council estate houses pumping out kids seems like a pretty different scenario, I don't have much of an opinion on it either way.

[Denny Crane]

The one thing you'd have to say for the "sure we can't even look after our own homeless, how can we take in refugees" argument is that it's invariably made my people who wouldn't cross the road to help our homeless either.

It's thinly veiled xenophobia, none of them ever said a peep about homelessness before. Don't really understand that sort of nationalism anyway.

[Emmet]

Johann Hari has an interesting book about the war on drugs, junkies, what the correct approach is etc.

The evidence he presents is pretty compelling that when you do the sort of things Hitch is talking about above things get better for everyone, junkies and normies alike.

People sitting in council estate houses pumping out kids seems like a pretty different scenario, I don't have much of an opinion on it either way.

I linked the article on medium here a while back!

The point I'm making is about a careful consideration in policy making as to those that might look to take advantage. Sometimes you just say that's fine, because it's a cost worth bearing. Sometimes it's impossible to put the genie back in the bottle.

[RichieM]

Living on the south side for the first time in my life and the most noticeable difference is all the homeless here read, and seem to voracious readers at that. The other day I passed a guy doing an impressionist oil painting, very different to the zombies on the other side!

I think you are confusing beggars with homeless. The begging crisis, the drugs crisis and the homeless crisis are not all the same thing. There is of course a few who cross all 3 but most beggars have a place to stay and from what I see only about half are actually on drugs.

I guess the ones not on drugs are prepared to stay out all day where as the junkies will just wait till the have enough to score and leg it only for there spot to be filled by an identical looking junkie.

[Strewelpeter]

It's thinly veiled xenophobia, none of them ever said a peep about homelessness before. Don't really understand that sort of nationalism anyway.

Its just as much people who have worked hard in low paid jobs who have had to fight the state for every scrip of welfare they are entitled to, who struggled to get their kids through school but found limited prospects for them at the end of it, people who then found there is no room in the hospitals for them or their aged parents when they need it.
They are terrified that people of a different race religion and ethos are going to arrive and jump the queues they have spent their entire lives in.
I'm not saying that their fears are justified but they are real and they will be an issue in the forthcoming election. You can already hear the extreme populist Sinn Fein/IRA canvasser on the street sing a very different tune to the official line.

[Raoul Duke III]

I wouldn't. But I've met people who would.

I went on a date with a girl here who's friend has had 4 kids (aged 22) because it entitled her to a bigger house. People do all sorts of stuff that you or I would not swap for all the time!

I am absolutely in favour of a welfare state in sorts, however it is careful to keep an eye on how far the needle swings left and right. There are times when some people see things as an incentive. It's important to at least consider this.

There are no easy answers, because we're not all the same people with the same values.

Ronald Reagan, in his California Governor days, was once chairing a budget discussion on Welfare. Some advocate was wittering on about the various programmes and how successful they were.

Reagan asked 'if they are so successful, why are the numbers on them increasing?'.

<silence>

It's a very valid question. Welfare should (in most cases) be structured as a hand up, not a hand out. Multi-generational dependency benefits nobody, least of all the recipients.

[Raoul Duke III]

Anyway. Vouchers will save the welfare state.

[RichieM]

Its just as much people who have worked hard in low paid jobs who have had to fight the state for every scrip of welfare they are entitled to, who struggled to get their kids through school but found limited prospects for them at the end of it, people who then found there is no room in the hospitals for them or their aged parents when they need it.
They are terrified that people of a different race religion and ethos are going to arrive and jump the queues they have spent their entire lives in.
I'm not saying that their fears are justified but they are real and they will be an issue in the forthcoming election. You can already hear the extreme populist Sinn Fein/IRA canvasser on the street sing a very different tune to the official line.

On this and not that it will make a difference to anyones outlook. Since it seems to have cost everyones life savings in Syria to move there family along to get them to Greece are they refugees somewhat the middle class of Syria.

Basically are some of the refugees close to being skilled labour visa status or at least with English leasons capable of being employable. I presume Syria has a somewhat developed education system as did all the Soviet allies and must have oil money even if ISIS have since robbed all the oil.

And the biggest question of all is how do we go about getting dibs on the usefull refugees and leaving the others for Sweeden and Germany

[ArmaniJeans]

Ronald Reagan, in his California Governor days, was once chairing a budget discussion on Welfare. Some advocate was wittering on about the various programmes and how successful they were.

Reagan asked 'if they are so successful, why are the numbers on them increasing?'.

<silence>

Perhaps the silence was because they thought there was little point in engaging with a guy who is thick enough to measure the success or not of the programmes by such an unscientific metric.

[Strewelpeter]

And the biggest question of all is how do we go about getting dibs on the usefull refugees and leaving the others for Sweeden and Germany

Too late, those crafty Germans got there first.
In contrast Camerons insistence on only taking those who have been worst affected and waiting in camps in Jordan or Lebanon for years now appears positively christian in nature.

No easy answers.

[Strewelpeter]

Corbyn very weak at PMQ

[Guest]

On this and not that it will make a difference to anyones outlook. Since it seems to have cost everyones life savings in Syria to move there family along to get them to Greece are they refugees somewhat the middle class of Syria.

Basically are some of the refugees close to being skilled labour visa status or at least with English leasons capable of being employable. I presume Syria has a somewhat developed education system as did all the Soviet allies and must have oil money even if ISIS have since robbed all the oil.

And the biggest question of all is how do we go about getting dibs on the usefull refugees and leaving the others for Sweeden and Germany

Germans were way ahead of you on the cherry picking.
No one covering themselves in glory in this debate,very little middle ground between people posting 5 year old pictures of brown skinned people rioting in a completely different part of the world and claiming it happened yesterday and all the right on crew trying to out emote and out empathise each other and dismissing reasonable concerns about border security and finance as racism.

[AndyFatBastard]

On this and not that it will make a difference to anyones outlook. Since it seems to have cost everyones life savings in Syria to move there family along to get them to Greece are they refugees somewhat the middle class of Syria.

Heh yeah anyone capable of thinking about the problem past level 1 can figure this out. I had such a laugh at Daily Mail readers saying "they can't be refugees, they have leather jackets and mobile phones!".

People with resources had a much greater probability of escaping. Doesn't make them any less refugees. They've certainly got fuck all now.

[Guest]

I notice the same with my Protestant daughter. She likes to tuck up her dolls in bed with her at night - wants them to get a good nights sleep; but occassionally a teddy bear would be out in the living room, and you can see her thinking: well fck the teddy bear for choosing to stay out there, it can freeze the lazy bollix.

It's a known fact that most Teddie bears are laissez faire Catholics

[Guest]

Corbyn very weak at PMQ

Labour party just came out and said he will sing the national anthem from now on

He is a republican, surely the labour party should stand for a republicans right to choose if they want to sing it!?

fuckwitism

[CHDad]

Corbyn believes in EIRE32 chucky air law m8s

So Ireland is now a Cameron fan?

[SatNav]

Ffs turned up ten mins early for interview. Someone else is being interviewed. I was under the impression it was just me. I can hear everything out side door on seat had to walk away as I'd rather not hear the questions. I'm. Fucking nervous now and never am.

[CHDad]

Stop overthinking, chill and crush it m8.

[shrapnel]

interesting stat: 20% of the players at the upcoming rugby world cup, are not playing for the countries they were born in.

[Raoul Duke III]

Perhaps the silence was because they thought there was little point in engaging with a guy who is thick enough to measure the success or not of the programmes by such an unscientific metric.

Actually, that changed the entire debate of 'what is welfare for?' in the States forever. Reagan was very far from being thick - just ask Gorbachev.

As with anything, you start with 'define Success'.

'Success' is now very much targeted at getting people off Welfare. I agree with that.

[Guest]

Ffs turned up ten mins early for interview. Someone else is being interviewed. I was under the impression it was just me. I can hear everything out side door on seat had to walk away as I'd rather not hear the questions. I'm. Fucking nervous now and never am.

Unless you are headhunted, any job where your the only one being interviewed is usually best avoided

See him/her being there as a good thing and as chadley says go crush it

[SatNav]

Unless you are headhunted, any job where your the only one being interviewed is usually best avoided

See him/her being there as a good thing and as chadley says go crush it

Sky contacted me first asking woukd I be interested that's why I presumed I was only one. Anyway an ould fella just walked out. Female interviewer asked woukd I mind waiting another ten mins while she waits on area manager. Ugh I hate women interviewing me.. Aghhhh

[Raoul Duke III]

Corbyn very weak at PMQ

Actually think the Tories should stop openly laughing at him and focus on nursing him through to the next election cycle. 'My right homourable friend makes a meretricious point'.

A bit like allowing the Chief the odd pot.

[elbows]

They don't do Sunday lunch, I agree with you though.

Forest Avenue do a decent Sunday Brunch I believe. Might be a bit hipsterish for your liking.

[DeadParrot]

Living on the south side for the first time in my life and the most noticeable difference is all the homeless here read, and seem to voracious readers at that. The other day I passed a guy doing an impressionist oil painting, very different to the zombies on the other side!

It's when the winos are drinking actual wine in proper glassware is when you know you are a proper southsider.

[DeadParrot]

You can already hear the extreme populist Sinn Fein/IRA canvasser on the street sing a very different tune to the official line.

This is more than likely a lie.
You can never resist can you?