Stars $55: AQ

[Winning!]

PokerStars Game #68528702673: Tournament #541010573, $50+$5 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (50/100) - 2011/10/05 22:10:00 CET [2011/10/05 16:10:00 ET]
Table '541010573 45' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: HERO (4300 in chips)
Seat 2: sjors001 (3542 in chips)
Seat 3: Ulsteinvikar (3633 in chips)
Seat 4: Paulv4 (3408 in chips)
Seat 5: CHIQUIDEALER (2066 in chips)
Seat 6: StevenDSmith (5604 in chips)
Seat 7: QQACEQQ (7680 in chips)
Seat 8: Mr.Matios (2582 in chips)
Seat 9: boddmon (2931 in chips)
HERO: posts the ante 10
sjors001: posts the ante 10
Ulsteinvikar: posts the ante 10
Paulv4: posts the ante 10
CHIQUIDEALER: posts the ante 10
StevenDSmith: posts the ante 10
QQACEQQ: posts the ante 10
Mr.Matios: posts the ante 10
boddmon: posts the ante 10
Paulv4: posts small blind 50
CHIQUIDEALER: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Q A]
StevenDSmith is connected
StevenDSmith: folds
QQACEQQ: raises 200 to 300
Mr.Matios: folds
boddmon: folds
HERO: calls 300
sjors001: folds
Ulsteinvikar: folds
Paulv4: folds
CHIQUIDEALER: raises 400 to 700
QQACEQQ: raises 1000 to 1700
HERO: ?

UTG villain runs 38/18 over a meh sample with no 3/4bets. I flat cos I suspect he's terrible and expect BB to shove a tad wide pre. Then I get lost cos I'm terrible..

[Guest]

Seems like a very straightforward fold to me.

[Emmet]

fold like a used napkin

[Wesley Harms]

Ya pitch em in the muck

[Winning!]

UTG is terrible though, he called a 3b from UTG with T6s two rounds earlier and called two streets to win with 2nd pair vs AK. I just dont know how wide he isos here, which is what it comes down to really since we can safely assume we do well vs BBs range.. Nobody thinks this is close?

[Arazi]

You "should" by all rights have no fold equity X2 here so you're getting AQ in Vs 2 hands pre while playing 40 BBs deep. This shouldn't play well enough in theory to take this gamble. Given your reasoning about UTG it may play better than normal.
The thing is if UTG had folded to the BB's raise then I guess the correct move is for you to push, so given UTG's image I can see why you think it may be closer than it should be. Meh I think it's still probably a fold thou but I'm not as sure as I first was.

[Mellor]

You could be flipping for a tripple up, but you are drawing to 3 outs often enough.
I fold

[BrianByrne]

Fold and be happy that you just took a shit on them.

[mfoleyAA]

Its an easy fold imo, you are more than likely drawing very thin and you can pick a better spot to get your chips in.

[BigDeal]

You say utg is terrible, when someone terrible 4bets pre it's mostly a monster IMO, he will just flat with vast majority of what he opens with

[Kie Diddy]

Definate fold imo, I dont think BB range is as wide as you seem to think either...

[Winning!]

Definate fold imo, I dont think BB range is as wide as you seem to think either...

If BB has been paying any attention whatsoever he will be wide enough here, since UTG has been splashing about quite a bit but has no obvious positional awareness so his UTG range includes anything playable as long as he's first in.

The fact that BB made it 700 doesn't change his range, he's planning on getting it in but may be trying to look stronger with this play. It's an often used tactic by good regs to rep a monster with a short stack, but it will only ever work on bad players, and more often than not will contain his entire shoving range.

The only question then is how wide UTG isos assuming he didn't fall for it and knows BB will do this with non-monsters. I think something like ATs+, KQs, 77+ could well fit the bill, against which we do well.. hence thread.

But anyway, I did timebank fold, and I would have been stacked. It wasn't for lack of equity though.

In retrospect I guess the table dynamic was a pretty crucial factor that is hard to justify ITT. Cheers for thoughts.

[TrollDonkFish]

If I'm in your position I peg BB for an absolute monster here, I get what your saying about regs using this as a way of repping strength but I don't know if they would use this against such a terribad player.

I don't think the original raiser is going anywhere and BB is just trying to extract as much out of him as possible. How'd the action go after you fold? BB min-raises again with AA against such an atrocious player.

[Downtown]

UTG is terrible though, he called a 3b from UTG with T6s two rounds earlier and called two streets to win with 2nd pair vs AK. I just dont know how wide he isos here, which is what it comes down to really since we can safely assume we do well vs BBs range.. Nobody thinks this is close?

Do you not like a 3 bet here with AQ v UTG? I think you will be bashing the keypad sometimes when you see a showdown between these two.

I think your flat call opens up the door for someone to isolate UTG or try and take the pot down there with a range that you beat.

Its interesting because I think if UTG folds I would struggle not to get it in. The fact that UTg is v bad as you say makes me inclined to fancy my hand here, albeit in a high variance spot. Kinda think the hand plays easier if we 3 bet. We get alot more solid info on the strength of the other players hands.

Im all in.

[UlDuffer]

You say utg is terrible, when someone terrible 4bets pre it's mostly a monster IMO, he will just flat with vast majority of what he opens with

Yea this is what i thought initially and i agree bad players don't iso light often enough to continue with AQ in this spot. We wouldn't have been super happy getting it in Vs the squeezer anyway as he's making a small 3b oop on a 20bb stack vs 2 opponents which looks very strong imo.

[UlDuffer]

If BB has been paying any attention whatsoever he will be wide enough here, since UTG has been splashing about quite a bit but has no obvious positional awareness so his UTG range includes anything playable as long as he's first in.

The fact that BB made it 700 doesn't change his range, he's planning on getting it in but may be trying to look stronger with this play. It's an often used tactic by good regs to rep a monster with a short stack, but it will only ever work on bad players, and more often than not will contain his entire shoving range.

The only question then is how wide UTG isos assuming he didn't fall for it and knows BB will do this with non-monsters. I think something like ATs+, KQs, 77+ could well fit the bill, against which we do well.. hence thread.

But anyway, I did timebank fold, and I would have been stacked. It wasn't for lack of equity though.

In retrospect I guess the table dynamic was a pretty crucial factor that is hard to justify ITT. Cheers for thoughts.

These are all valid points esp about the bb trying to look super strong but sometimes you're best not to overthink it imo. Most people just aren't thinking on the level you are and more often than not what it looks like is exactly what it is.

[UlDuffer]

Do you not like a 3 bet here with AQ v UTG? I think you will be bashing the keypad sometimes when you see a showdown between these two.

Definitely don't like a 3b here. Are you 3b/calling or folding to a 4b? I can't see getting see getting 43bb effec in here w AQo ever being good. And if you fold to a 4b you are basically 3b bluffing w AQ pre flop. Standard flat pre ADL.