side event 6 max dublin

[harrharr]

189 players down til 28, 18 paid

2nd day playing 5 handed

5th hand of the day. bb is 2400 300 ante

my stack 72k villans 60k

im in bb, folded to sb who beats 5900.

i look down see 88 what do i do?

[Daragh999]

Shove, 5 handed, B vs B 8's are a powerhouse but we don't want to see the flop so shoving>3-betting>calling.

[ikilldurrr1]

Shove or 3b to 16k and call it off depending on opponent.

[Guest]

3 betting to about 16k gives him a chance to shove worse here but a shove here with 88 is ok too...

[harrharr]

is callin the worst of my three options? i did shove he had jj. just wondering could i have flatted and took a more cauious approach, or is my thinkin just because he had a hand to dominate me?

[Midnitekowby]

ya your just being result orientated here, do what u gotta do to get it in here. ur crushing his range and he can call with smaller pps which u dominate

[harrharr]

yeah think i was but as i went out i thought maybe flattin and going from there but i still think urs are right 88 is too strong 5 handed

[Mellor]

Shove, 5 handed, B vs B 8's are a powerhouse but we don't want to see the flop so shoving>3-betting>calling.

I think your logic is backwards here.
Obviously we don't want to see a 35k flop with effective 44k behind. But your are assuming that he villain calls off almost 30% of his stack, which never happens.

By shoving he calls everything that beats us, and some of the hands we flip with.
By 3betting, he 4bets shoves the same range as above plus some more hands we flip with and some of the hands we beat.

We don't need to get into exact ranges as its not important, but its pretty fair to say that his 4bet shove range > Calling our shove range. There 3betting to call a shove is the better move imo.

yeah think i was but as i went out i thought maybe flattin and going from there but i still think urs are right 88 is too strong 5 handed

Folding to the flat would be better that flat calling. His range is almost ATC. Flatting is terrible, there are 6 over cards in the deck and he doesn't go any further in the hand unless he hits something.

[Daragh999]

^^^ Our 3-bet getting called happens more than you think, it rarely happens online but live it happens all the time esp with 'older school' guys and puts us in horrible spots post flop, we also leave ourselves open to being stop & go'ed. We don't fold out everything that beats us, i would be suprised if 44-66 folds to our shove and your not including the time we fold out weak hands that have good equity against us (2 pictures, high suited connectors, Ax rags). We want these hands to fold every time.

Struggling to word and explain it properly, maybe it will come when im not so tired

EDIT: Just thought about it more there. Vs good players i think 3-betting is better for the reasons you stated but vs bad players (in the 6-max side event there is alot more of these) shoving is better because of the random tough spots they will put you in.

[Mellor]

Well, i was going on the assumption that at the bubble of a decent tourney, the standard was reasonable.
Ignoring the call, establish a range for each (3bet/shove and shove/call) and see which range 88 has the best equity against. It's probab pretty close either way and I don't think either move is wrong.

Flatting certainly is