Ukipt Hand Brighton

[CorkRichie]

18 players left
Blinds 5-10k 1k ante
I'm playing 320k
Villian playing 260k

Just joined last 2 tables with no history on villain. He opens utg +1 2x. I have 88 in cut off-?

I call-?
Big blind completes
Flop K 7 2 ss
Villain c- bets 1/2 pot 30k
I call-?
Big blind folds

Turn 6 clubs
Villain tank c bets turn 55k
I call-?

River is 9 clubs

Villain shoves. for 155k

????

[Bubbleking]

fold the turn imo

[Daragh999]

As played fold the turn. If you are going to call the turn you should probably be calling the river, nothing really changed apart from backdoor clubs. 26BB's effective im 3bet/calling his shove pre unless i think hes opening a tight range.

[Midnitekowby]

same as daragh not as massive fan of flatting pre, if he's a frequent utg minner(and theres heaps o them out there these days, specially in ukipts), i'd apply max pressure in this pre ft spot and 3bet/get it in.

3betting will let others behind know ur committed to calling utg, so by doin it slightly smaller then usuall u can fold if jammed on from behind.

if for whatever you think his range is strong here then obv just let it go

[anymorejokes]

Flatting leads to tricky decisions like this. 3 betting getting it in like the lads already said.
As played fold turn if i'm calling the turn i'm calling the river.

[Maloney]

Surely 3bet calling 88 here 26bb eff is bad? There's not a lot info giving on the villain so i don't know.

[TheImprover]

The call pre is fine imo, i dont mind the flat on the flop but maybe a 3bet to find out where you are is not to bad either but then if he shoves you are probably commited to calling him off, i defo fold the turn, he is after putting in 100k out of his 260 stack so i think you have to expect him to bet/jam the river, with you flatting flop and turn he has to ask himself what are you calling with, so i think he is after flopping a set so even though you have nearly 1/3 of your stack in and are getting over 2/1 i still fold the river but it was on the turn is where the mistake was imho.

[Wesley Harms]

Do not raise the flop

[hammo19]

I would def 3bet pre rich because as said already tricky decisions unless u flop ur 8...and the stacks arent deep enough really to try find out where u are with out getting it in on the flop.so in ur case i would of got it in or folded on the flop....

[TheImprover]

I would def 3bet pre rich because as said already tricky decisions unless u flop ur 8...and the stacks arent deep enough really to try find out where u are with out getting it in on the flop.so in ur case i would of got it in or folded on the flop....

There is nothing at all wrong with flatting pre, i much prefer to flat pre with no info, you are facing an utg raiser with no reads.

[hammo19]

There is nothing at all wrong with flatting pre, i much prefer to flat pre with no info, you are facing an utg raiser with no reads.

he will find out straight away where he is,with the stack ur man has he aint gonna flat the 3bet..if the flop came 7 high rich will lose a big big pot if he has 9s or better,its the ukipt and the pots are big enough to take down with no action so i would never flat an utg raise with 8s,either raise or fold cause ur finding nothing out just calling seeing a flop and once he c bets he aint gonna fold!

[blaaaaaaah]

Your just moved to new the table, you have 26 bigs in live tourny after moving to two 9 or 8 handed tables? whats the rush? 26 bigs is enough in live game to play comfortably. Risking it all pre with 8s v unknown guy is total internet play, there are spots for getting it in with 88 pre with this stack but I do not think this is one. Like loosing this hand after flop or turn is not detrimental. I go as sick to say I might even muck pre, like why make a slightly high variance play when if you take your time sus out your new table you will definatly find loads of spots to steal and resteal which builds your stack for final table without risking it all but at same time giving off the impression that you are willing too. It's Ukipt, average players will tighten up and let you steal and 100% there are quiet a few left on your table which I'm sure you will confirm.

As played fold the turn.

[TheImprover]

he will find out straight away where he is,with the stack ur man has he aint gonna flat the 3bet..if the flop came 7 high rich will lose a big big pot if he has 9s or better,its the ukipt and the pots are big enough to take down with no action so i would never flat an utg raise with 8s,either raise or fold cause ur finding nothing out just calling seeing a flop and once he c bets he aint gonna fold!

This

Your just moved to new the table, you have 26 bigs in live tourny after moving to two 9 or 8 handed tables? whats the rush? 26 bigs is enough in live game to play comfortably. Risking it all pre with 8s v unknown guy is total internet play,
.

[hammo19]

im not saying get it in pre!!! u can find out pre with out losing much or else just fold pre as i said losing nothing

[TheImprover]

im not saying get it in pre!!! u can find out pre with out losing much or else just fold pre as i said losing nothing

You are saying to 3bet pre, why risk it? your 3bet will have to be about 50k and if he ships you have to fold, where as flatting the min pre your getting masive value to set mine.

[blaaaaaaah]

3bet folding is retarded, if you 3bet your calling his shove.

[smoothcall]

would just fold sometimes here...

[TheImprover]

3bet folding is retarded, if you 3bet your calling his shove.

I'm never 3betting here, but as a few above have said to 3bet pre and if you were to go with them, 3bet 50-60k, villain ships which is another 200k, why is it retarded to fold?, we still have 22-24bigs, in a way you are asking a Q by 3betting pre which i dont like anyway in this spot but i dont think you can call off most of your stack with a pair of 8's when you have enough of chips to build on.

As you said folding isnt that bad either pre, i'm happy to just flat but i am never getting my stack in pre or even 3betting

[Arazi]

You've obviously got a read/feeling to be calling down like this on the flop and turn.
I'd need to be in your seat to know exactly what I'm going to do but if I'm calling on the turn I'd be semi prepared to call a river shove and that 9 is "close" to a blank

P's I'm never raising this pre unless I'm putting it all in (unless there's a 4 bet behind). Tempted to just fold it pre and basically concur with Blaaaaaah's post.

[Midnitekowby]

as joz said 3bet folding is horribad here, also 13/1 is not near enough implied odds for setmining, specially with players to act behind.

nothing wrong with folding but just saw sooo many utg min raisers open/fold this year at ukipts that i think he could be easily light here.

Chances are richie has played him b4, either in brighton leading up to last 2 tables or at other ukipts, i reckon he's enough info to make this decision, but its a decision id make pre rather then as played and getting urself into a muddle post

[TheImprover]

Just joined last 2 tables with no history on villain.

!

[CorkRichie]

Cheers for the interest guys.

What happened anyway was....
I called flop and went with a live read on the turn hoping for showdown on river but when he shoved I almost puked.

I mean there is not 2 many hands he shoves for value on that river so he has a monster or fuck all basically. Is he good enough to be shoving KQ? KJ etc? And he could have turned 10s JJs QQ etc into a bluff ie he could be bluffing with the best hand. Would be really tortures if I called and he tabled A9 off lol getting there on river....

Anyway I was left with the dilemma
(a) if I call and was good top 3 in chips
(b) if I folded I still have 22bbs to work with. I might have the maths wrong here but I remember cutting out the call and counting my stack which totalled 215k
(c) if I call and was wrong I'm pretty much fucked...have under 10bbs with blinds going up on next orbit.....

So what would ye do?



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[ViperEyeIRL]

Given the stacks (32bb and 26bb effective in the hand) I fold pre and stay out of trouble, unless I have loose players (with deeper stacks) on the blinds who may overcall, but even then it's marginal unless they stack off easily with a random pair when they hit.

PS: I am a nit

[blaaaaaaah]

Cheers for the interest guys.

What happened anyway was....
I called flop and went with a live read on the turn hoping for showdown on river but when he shoved I almost puked.

I mean there is not 2 many hands he shoves for value on that river so he has a monster or fuck all basically. Is he good enough to be shoving KQ? KJ etc? And he could have turned 10s JJs QQ etc into a bluff ie he could be bluffing with the best hand. Would be really tortures if I called and he tabled A9 off lol getting there on river....

Anyway I was left with the dilemma
(a) if I call and was good top 3 in chips
(b) if I folded I still have 22bbs to work with. I might have the maths wrong here but I remember cutting out the call and counting my stack which totalled 215k
(c) if I call and was wrong I'm pretty much fucked...have under 10bbs with blinds going up on next orbit.....

So what would ye do?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We don't know how the guy plays so it's too tough to say whether this is a call or not, plus getting to see the chap would help but again we cannot. Basic info that you have on him is the same for what he has on you. Maybe he would try bluff a total unknown the first hand you sit down but then again he is trying to bluff a range that only consists of 88-jj and any kx hand, so therefore imo he probably doesn't bother. I would have given up on the turn. If you call turn in theory you should be calling the river as he never shoves a9 or any rivered 9x hand as he has showdown and doesn't turn 88-qq into a bluff either. He would shove aa,kk,aq,kq and top set too of course. It's too bad a spot your in, I'm sure you felt like flicking a coin whether to call or not. Least the best thing you can take from this hand is not to play it in the same situation, and it's probably the biggest thing to learn from the hole hand not to let yourself get dragged into these spots on regular basis.

[Vituperio]

my opinion

pre flop
fold > raise > call

As played fold the turn..

if you 3 bet pre flop u call his shove

[Winning!]

3b/call or fold pre. Don't like flatting with stacks. If I don't fold OTF I definitely fold the turn. Can't add much else.

why make a slightly high variance play when if you take your time sus out your new table you will definatly find loads of spots to steal and resteal which builds your stack for final table without risking it all but at same time giving off the impression that you are willing too.

Would recommend taking notes before he starts charging per hour.

[TommyGunne]

I don't think flatting is as bad as people make it out to be. I do fold pre most of the time here, esp w/ aggro players behind, but in most live tourneys you can call here.

I fold pre and the turn though. I also fold river. You need a lot of equity there.

[rag2gar]

It was a massive spot 4 me and I leaned towards calling then folding then calling again. I really thought he was the type 2 do this with an air ball and my first instinct said call and had a live read which could mean he was anxious/nervous cos he had a monster or cos he was on a bluff. if ye know what I mean. throughout the weekend I had made pretty sick calls so my confidence in my reads were pretty good at this point...

Eventually clock was called on me and I got timed out. And begged and pleaded with the eventual winner chris o donnel (not the guy from batman) to show me his hand which turned out 2 be AQ off so my live read was good just couldn't bring myself to make the call on the river in time.

But in retrospect I concur with what a lot of u are saying I put myself in a bad spot by playing the hand like this so i have learned a lot from it...

Not telling ye how I'm going 2 play similar hands like this in the future cos will meet ye on same table at some point but appreciate people's opinions....

Still open for scrutiny
We all love a bit of pain sometimes. Keeps the blood flowing lol


Cork richie on Gary clarkes ipb

[doke]

I don't think flatting is as bad as people make it out to be. I do fold pre most of the time here, esp w/ aggro players behind, but in most live tourneys you can call here.

I fold pre and the turn though. I also fold river. You need a lot of equity there.

This basically.

Don't like threebetting pre: you have to call it off if he shoves and you're now racing at best. Any normal four bet shove range crushes 88 but you still have to call.

I'd only call pre if he was very weak post flop (incapable of firing more than one barrel) and there wasn't much likelihood of getting raised behind.

These are weird spots where most good players never imagine a medium pair is a fold pre but you see top players routinely making these folds.

As someone said, there are similar situations where you can shove or threebet/call a shove with 88 and this stack, like if he's coming from mid position and you're in the blinds or on the button, butthis isn't one.