WCOOP ME hand v doke

[Bubbleking]

This was stolen from 2+2. thought it was an interesting hand as we are deep (for a tournament) and all streets have a number of reasonable options. Now I take a completely different line to hero in this hand but it would be interesting to hear what others think.

reads on Doke is that he is min -raising a lot of hands and is playing 29/21

SlowDoke ($15,603)
Hero ($24,192)

vitapur posts (SB) $40
paulgees81 posts (BB) $80

Dealt to HERO As Kc

SlowDoke raises to $160

HERO calls $160

PURPLE"K"99 calls $160

FLOP ($600) 9h 6c Kh
SlowDoke bets $360
HERO raises to $1,011
PURPLE"K"99 folds
SlowDoke calls $651
TURN ($2,622) 9h 6c Kh Tc
SlowDoke checks
HERO bets $1,780
SlowDoke calls $1,780
RIVER ($6,182) 9h 6c Kh Tc Ad
SlowDoke checks
HERO bets $4,495

[Alfie]

I don't think a 3bet is absolutely mandatory this deep but it's probably the best option since Doke has been active and you can iso him deep and in position...

I like the line this guy took generally and the river bet seems good to induce a hero-call from a worse 2p or whatnot, since it does look to be a good river card to bluff (or maybe Doke will think we have decided to merge and go extremely thin with a nfd which paired the river and he will call w/ a weaker 2p type hand... or have such a hand himself and be c/c ing some.).

That said, I think the sizing is a little big to accomplish this... something like 3,200 will pretty much do the same thing with your bluffs as well as your value range (some of which will prob be v. thin and thus b/f ing this river) and Doke will know this so I think a smaller bet otr will get more calls.

[Wombatman]

Agree with Alfie on pre.

Flop is fine.

I check back on the turn to call or bet call any river.

[DrJFF]

Would 3bet preflop sometimes, don't mind a call depends on how active i've been,


i like the flop raise,


would either check back the turn or bet/fold,


if i check the turn i call most rivers, if i bet the turn i check back the river

[Bubbleking]

Would 3bet preflop sometimes, don't mind a call depends on how active i've been,


i like the flop raise,


would either check back the turn or bet/fold,


if i check the turn i call most rivers, if i bet the turn i check back the river

yeah this is the line I take tbh. I think a 3bet is pretty standard pf considering doke has been open min raising a lot

apart from that I play the rest of the hand as DrJFF says

[DrJFF]

yeah this is the line I take tbh. I think a 3bet is pretty standard pf considering doke has been open min raising a lot

apart from that I play the rest of the hand as DrJFF says

its too standard,

i prefer to 4bet a squeezer of my flat but this all depends on table dynamics and how the table views me,

it really depends on table dynamics, more than likely if doke is opening lots of pots i've prob wud have 3bet him enough he would continue/4bet worse

[Starvin Marvin]

wp postflop that man.

[Bubbleking]

wp postflop that man.

do you think betting the river is wp? Im not sure about that. I think Im stuck between Alfies line of betting 3.2k and DrJFF's line of checking behind after betting the turn

[Starvin Marvin]

I think the river is a mandatory bet, whatever about the sizing.
Checking back top 2 would be nitville.

I might pot control the turn sometimes against certain people alright.

[DrJFF]

What hands in Dokes range do you think calls the river that you beat? for those who like the river bet?

[Alfie]

I guess off hand the 2pair hands like K9, KT, AThh + A6hh (altho thats only 2 combos)... possibly AhX depending on the dynamic, of which I neither know nor am I qualified to analyse as I don't play $5k online donkaments...

I don't particularly see why Doke would c/r a nut or near-nut hand on the river here if betting the river at all with AK is such an obviously close decision and if villain is gona b/f most hands. I don't think our friend w/ AK here has enough bluffs in his range for there to be a lot of value in a c/r as opposed to a b/c with something like a set from Doke so I think it is more likely the river bet will achieve a call from worse than better for this reason, and I think a lot of the monsters lead this river, but I could obv just be wrong for a whole host of reasons...

Anyway, I have a lecture look forward to responses... I prob fucked up this post cos I had to rush it but u get the jist

[Strewelpeter]

do you think betting the river is wp? Im not sure about that. I think Im stuck between Alfies line of betting 3.2k and DrJFF's line of checking behind after betting the turn

Betting this amount on the river has to be seen in the context of what you are going to do if / when Doke raises.

[Bubbleking]

Betting this amount on the river has to be seen in the context of what you are going to do if / when Doke raises.

Thats why I would be more inclined to

(a) check behind on the river if I bet the turn

or

(b) check the turn and call any reasonable bet on the river

I prefer (a) though

[Alfie]

Betting this amount on the river has to be seen in the context of what you are going to do if / when Doke raises.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a b/f of this amount otr. Villain will call with worse and jam better for the most part and imo he is calling more often than raising as it makes more sense to lead the river for value for reasons already states although it's def ok to go for a c/r here with his 89 or whatever. A lot of the hands we are afraid of c/r ing here raise elsewhere in the hand too, which weights his range a little more towards a c/c or c/f...

Cliffs: you get called by worse more often than better because he leads better otr sometimes but his c/c's with worse always just c/c... also more of the better hands raise the turn

[Wombatman]

Thats why I would be more inclined to

(a) check behind on the river if I bet the turn

or

(b) check the turn and call any reasonable bet on the river

I prefer (a) though

What happens to (a) when he leads out and pots the river?

[Caf]

Would 3bet preflop sometimes, don't mind a call depends on how active i've been,


i like the flop raise,


would either check back the turn or bet/fold,


if i check the turn i call most rivers, if i bet the turn i check back the river

Thats why I would be more inclined to

(a) check behind on the river if I bet the turn

or

(b) check the turn and call any reasonable bet on the river

I prefer (a) though

What's the reason that you would check this turn card? I'm happy to bet a bigger amount on the turn and check back the river if that's the way the hand plays out.


Interesting hand btw BK, ty for posting it.

[gorrrr72]

If I'm Doke I like to play a set this way as I don't want to lose my customer on the flop and I don't like being raised on the turn or river now. So c/c turn and river with 66/99 might be a bit nitty but I don't need to go broke against an overset or gutter at this point in the tourney.

If I'm the hero I take a pot control line on the turn and check behind, good for inducing bluffs on the river and I can bet fairly confidently if villain checks the river too. Maybe gets my bet hero called with 2nd pair rag ace etc.

[DrJFF]

Reasons for checking the turn is for pot control mostly for me,

cos i hate bet folding the turn, it wil also induce bluffs/and value bets on the river with worse hands,


i also agree with gorrr 66,99 are heavily weighted in dokes range and is the way i'd play a set here,

i don't think he calls the river with K9 or Axhh, AThh is unlikely,

the heros line is strong and all the semi bluff draws get there on the river bar the fd, but all sd hit,


so when you bet the river i believe you are value owning yourself after betting the turn, like if you bet the 4.3k and he shoves its going to be like 6k or so more into a pretty big pot,

[ViperEyeIRL]

I like the way that guy played the hand - I'd check behind turn though, it would really suck to get check/raised there.

[Reaps]

I like the way that guy played the hand - I'd check behind turn though, it would really suck to get check/raised there.

was that you 26th in the ipoker 200k on Sunday. If so I railed you for a while around the bubble. Nice bubble play by the way.

What caused the damage as at that stage you we're about fifth. Although a couple of lost races and you could have bust easy enough

[ViperEyeIRL]

was that you 26th in the ipoker 200k on Sunday. If so I railed you for a while around the bubble. Nice bubble play by the way.

What caused the damage as at that stage you we're about fifth. Although a couple of lost races and you could have bust easy enough

Yep that was me...I totally went card dead just after the bubble and went in "fold mode"
The structure of that tourney is very bad for the buy in, a lot of 20bb play. For a 320$ tourney they should do something better imo.

[DrJFF]

Result

SPOILER

Doke called and had 66

[doke]

Interesting thread with some very good thoughts. FWIW I basically agree with Jay's analysis. I don't think my opponent should have raised/bet all three streets. It's a tossup between betting the turn and checking behind on the river, and checking the turn to call or bet the river. Turn probably better as there are quite a few draws in my range. Checking turn might be better if I'm more likely to fire the river with a busted draw or one pair hand.

The ace on the river nominally improves his hand. I say nominally because actually it doesn't improve it to beat anything in my range that wasn't already ahead on the turn, and makes me less likely to hero call with something like KQ. So in his shoes against someone playing the way I was, I'd check behind on the river.

[Alfie]

The more I think about this hand the more I feel I was being the opposite of results-oriented a bit, since the hero in the hand obv got c/r'd and folded or doke called w/ better or he wouldn't have posted the hand!

I still don't think betting the river is bad but I agree DrJFF's thoughts on this are better, since it actually is a pretty std line with a set and any river bet actually achieves a little less than I initially thought it would...