88 vs short stack 3bet

[CountingCrows]

Live €50 MMT freeze-out

Blinds 300/600 (lvl7)
Hero 15K
Villain 9.5K

I've been playing tight aggressive but I've open raised the last two pots and won them uncontested. Villain is competent LAG playing lots of pots, but he's been called down light trying to punish limper's and has taken a few big hits. He hasn't tangled previously with me.

I open UTG to 1,400 with 88
Villain in the CO 3 bets to 4,500
Hero?

[Fiend]

Min raise

[Carl_Morrissey]

Not sure if it's optimum but I'd be going for the flat pre and jam every flop OOP.

[mugsy]

fold .. you will get better spots. only 1400 invested

[minor]

Id fold. You are prob racing though so you could stick it in and have a flip for 9.5k if you wanted. You hav to win flips to win tourneys

[Atlantispoker]

just wondering are you short stacked here or what the average is , if you are short then take the race i recon, if close to ave fold .

[Duecewilder]

Villan has zero fold equity here. Majority of the time it will be a flip against his range but with only a small % of stack invested IMO it would be a fold and wait for better spots. Your UTG min+ raise should get some respect given Stacks.

[*PocketRockets*]

Exactly what minor said. Most of the time you're flipping in this spot. If you want it, call.

[Micknail]

Just one thing your post makes no sense the way it reads. "I opened the last two pots uncontested" You would be in blinds if your playing UTG?

Do you play poker backwards where you are?

He would have been utg+1 and before that utg+2.
Sigh.

[Duecewilder]

Do you play poker backwards where you are?

He would have been utg+1 and before that utg+2.
Sigh.

Haha Lack of sleep = me momentarily retarded

Cant believe I just said that.

Self Needle

[GaryT]

Fold quickly. You're crushed here a lot more often than your flipping. It's a call if he had of shoved though.

[Degenerate88]

Fold quickly. You're crushed here a lot more often than your flipping. It's a call if he had of shoved though.

This. Bad spot imo to get your chips in the middle. His range might be as narrow as JJ+ Ak here as he will probably shove hands such as 77-TT and AJ-AQ and probably a decent amount wider than this! Also if you get it in and lose you have just under 10 bbs left compared to 23 bbs if you fold which leaves you a lot more maneuverability. Stack maintenance is an important concept here.

[Laois Hammer]

Fold your always getting called and rarely doing v.well.
Id rethink you're competent label on him because this sizing is pretty brutal.
Unless hes doing it with his mid strength reshove range for deception but i doubt hes thinking like that so we can just fold.
Edit, just seen you are utg aswel he shouldnt have too much of a mid strength range anyway.

[GaryT]

This. Bad spot imo to get your chips in the middle. His range might be as narrow as JJ+ Ak here as he will probably shove hands such as 77-TT and AJ-AQ and probably a decent amount wider than this! Also if you get it in and lose you have just under 10 bbs left compared to 23 bbs if you fold which leaves you a lot more maneuverability. Stack maintenance is an important concept here.

We are agreeing but for totally different reasons Liam. I don't think your typical live player is 3 betting like this with JJ or Ak IMO. This is going to be QQ+ like 90% of the time. I would expect the majority of players in a €50 live tourney to just shove AK(or other AT+ hands or 66-JJ here the vast majority of the time.

1 of them spots where you should be thanking him for saving you chips!

[Winning!]

Fold your always getting called and rarely doing v.well.
Id rethink you're competent label on him because this sizing is pretty brutal.

This. Though in fairness to OP I think he probably meant 'winning live player'. Competency isn't always a necessity in that regard

[Hectorjelly]

I think people are not paying enough attention to the fact this is the third pot we have opened in a row. You can't fold here, before you raise here you should be aware that you are very likely to get played back at

[Winning!]

I think people are not paying enough attention to the fact this is the third pot we have opened in a row. You can't fold here, before you raise here you should be aware that you are very likely to get played back at

Ok fair enough, we need 39% so if you think he'll 3b/gii here with 77 then a jam is marginally correct but I doubt we see worse PPs here. I would generally be very wary of the 3b/gii range of a 'competent' €50 live reg, esp with the sizing he chose rather than just jamming.

[Fiend]

I've been playing online waaaay too long I guess. Villain has 15 bigs and is laggy. Ye he's made a funky reraise for 7.5bb but fuck that. Why is every one scared of a possible race with the dead money in there. Raise, win the race and be in much better shape. Its his tourney life not yours (obv i know he's not folding).

[Degenerate88]

This. Though in fairness to OP I think he probably meant 'winning live player'. Competency isn't always a necessity in that regard

Us poor oul live players get an awful doing!

[40something]

A considerable body of players would advocate a fold pre here (presumably stack size relevent). With 20 bigs, opening medium pairs utg is burning money.

[Hectorjelly]

Ok fair enough, we need 39% so if you think he'll 3b/gii here with 77 then a jam is marginally correct but I doubt we see worse PPs here. I would generally be very wary of the 3b/gii range of a 'competent' €50 live reg, esp with the sizing he chose rather than just jamming.

It said he was a competent LAG - I'm not sure really what to make of this description, but I take it as aggressive. His sizing seems to suggest a hand that doesn't want to shove (as a 3bet looks stronger) but wants us to fold. I think folding here is bad, if your planning to fold to a 3bet here I'd just fold pre in the first place.

[Norwichfanrob]

In a live 50 game, villian has qq or kk pretty much always.

[Hectorjelly]

In a live 50 game, villian has qq or kk pretty much always.

Then he isn't a lag

[KK82]

Then he isn't a lag

How lag can you be with 16bbs without being a moron?

[CountingCrows]

Great feedback. My first thought was that he was simply playing back at me, however given his sizing and chip count I should have discounted that. I settled on the line "Most of the time you're flipping. If you want it, get it in the middle".

SPOILER

I shoved and he snapped with QQ and held.

On reflection however (as the majority have noted), in a typical live game I'm rarely flipping and usually crushed.