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**smoothcall** · 31-10-12, 01:05

Originally posted by tglynn View Post

OK guys this is quite a weird hand so let me have it as I know (and knew at the time) it was weird but that was my thinking behind it. Bet amounts are as accurate as I remember.

So blinds are at 100/200 (as far as I remember), cut-off (who is a English guy playing laggy enough) makes it 450 to go, button and small blind (Ross Johnson) flat, I wake with AKo in my bb. I make it 1150 to go, all call. Flop comes J high 2

s, it checks around. Turn is a complete brick and is checked around again. River come the 9

No straight draw and board wasn't paired. It's checked to the cut-off who makes it around 2150, button and sb fold. My first instinct was obv to fold, but then I thought of what a tough spot it would put him in if I raised.

My thinking was, I had been playing quite tight and only showing down the goods, mainly due to it being my first major tourney. I had showed down Jacks which i c/called a river bet in a 3bet pot on 10 high board (had him on 10s before the river 10, and he had 9s). So I wasn't getting out of line atall. My image (i thought) was of a nervous player who could be pushed around a bit.

I felt if I was to raise, I knew I can rep almost nothing, except mabey rivered set of 9s, but I felt he could never have a flush here as he bets turn when it's checked to him i think. And low sets make up some of his range but 2 pair type hands find a call tough aswell.

So I make it 6025, (put the 25 out there to make it appear smaller and therefore a value raise

).

Anyway, he tank folds. Opinions? Be harsh, I just felt at the time it would put him in a really tough spot and gave me a chance to use my image to rob some chips.

hmm,

**tglynn** · 31-10-12, 01:06

Originally posted by smoothcall View Post

hmm,

sorry, fold not call!... discuss

**shano_88** · 31-10-12, 01:09

Your raise size pre is poor. Im definetly making it a good bit bigger. 1600-1800 imo.

Your river raise is obviously repping a very thin range for value and your gonna get looked up light by good players. Your repping a tiny range for value and thats never a good idea. Just check/fold river. Even though villian isnt probably too strong, I doubt hes bet folding a 9 here. I know I wouldnt.

**smoothcall** · 31-10-12, 01:14

What was the exact board? it seems really really bad especially if he has a clue. Callings better than raising if you think hes at it. You've just got to the river and thought ooh I could win it with a raise, hence your story/line makes no sense.

**tglynn** · 31-10-12, 01:17

Originally posted by smoothcall View Post

What was the exact board? it seems really really bad especially if he has a clue. Callings better than raising if you think hes at it. You've just got to the river and thought ooh I could win it with a raise, hence your story/line makes no sense.

J7329 3 diamonds as far as I can remember, your comment makes perfect sense. cheers

**CHDad** · 31-10-12, 01:23

Thought you meant Irish Wrestling Federation.

Not Irish Winter Festival.

**andyw1291** · 31-10-12, 01:26

I think your 3b should be a bit bigger pre,closer to 3x. Your giving the CO too good of a price knowing that its likely the btn or/and sb will call as well. When it comes to your to ur raise I think ur line is fine against players who can't hand read and you don't consider to be level 1 thinkers but against better thinking players they're going to recognize that ur line is completely full of shit.

**tglynn** · 31-10-12, 01:26

Also what is the optimum line? As played but fold river?

**peterswellman** · 31-10-12, 01:35

Originally posted by tglynn View Post

Also what is the optimum line? As played but fold river?

For me, it has to be much bigger pre. There is already 3 people in the pot. We're going to be OOP post flop so we need to make our sizing to compensate this. Tbh, you're sizing does nothing. I wouldn't make it that small even with aces here. For me, my sizing here is about 2k because of the others in the hands and being OOP with AK normally sucks and needing to hit.

Post flop after going 4 way. I might fire one c-bet and leave it at that with the flop reasonably dry.

Do we have the A

in our hand? How deep are we pre?

**Guest** · 31-10-12, 01:37

Personally I.dont like a 3bet here at all.

As the lads have mentioned the 3 bet is slightly too little but thats not the main issue, I think playin AK here OOP is very difficult here in a 3 bet pot, with the amount of money in the middle, it's over inflated in imo, I would rather smooth and play the hand post flop, if you do spike an ace you can certainly get alot of value because your so under repped just what I would do

**tglynn** · 31-10-12, 01:40

Originally posted by peterswellman View Post

For me, it has to be much bigger pre. There is already 3 people in the pot. We're going to be OOP post flop so we need to make our sizing to compensate this. Tbh, you're sizing does nothing. I wouldn't make it that small even with aces here. For me, my sizing here is about 2k because of the others in the hands and being OOP with AK normally sucks and needing to hit.

Post flop after going 4 way. I might fire one c-bet and leave it at that with the flop reasonably dry.

Do we have the A

in our hand? How deep are we pre?

As I mentioned bet sizing isn't exact, and ya I had the A

Omaha blocker

**peterswellman** · 31-10-12, 01:43

Originally posted by tglynn View Post

As I mentioned bet sizing isn't exact, and ya I had the A

Omaha blocker

Sizing was on the smaller size though?

I have found the notes section in Iphone very handy for taking down key hands right after they happen in a live tournie because my memory can be pretty bad at times aswell.

Having the A

would certainly make me c-bet here then for sure. Extra equity baby.

Like Brady has said aswell, could go with flatting which is totally fine this deep.

**tglynn** · 31-10-12, 01:45

Originally posted by peterswellman View Post

Sizing was on the smaller size though?

I have found the notes section in Iphone very handy for taking down key hands after right after they happen in a live tournie because my memory can be pretty bad at times aswell.

Having the A

would certainly make me c-bet here then for sure. Extra equity baby.

Like Brady has said aswell, could go with flatting which is totally fine this deep.

Ya, I should have made it a larger raise either way.

So we are going with bigger raise pre, and c-bet one street and take it from there?

**peterswellman** · 31-10-12, 01:48

Originally posted by tglynn View Post

Ya, I should have made it a larger raise either way.

So we are going with bigger raise pre, and c-bet one street and take it from there?

Pretty much, could easily double barrell if the turn is another diamond. Sometimes check if we feel we aren't getting floated. Online this would be easier if you could see how many times you see villain folds to c-bet stats and fold to turn c-bet's. Live it's a bit trickier. Read dependent if you have anything to go by.

**Guest** · 31-10-12, 01:56

I like flatting here personally lets say the laggy guy calls, the co will often make the presumption that the sb will call if he does, then the sb is in a super spot with a small pair or some sort of suited drawing hand because the pot is now 8k, I'm presuming that you and the 3 villains have 20k each ish! Any c-bet on any board commits a total of 25-30% of ur stack which I think is too much unless u.flop really.hard and gives u alot less fold equity, I just think a bigger 3bet is both good and bad but can be quite high variance if you c-bet most boards

**Guest** · 31-10-12, 02:00

Shove pre.

**Denny Crane** · 31-10-12, 08:12

Just makes no sense at all.

**tglynn** · 31-10-12, 10:52

Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post

Just makes no sense at all.

That was the plan!

**Arazi** · 31-10-12, 13:21

I think if I'm the villian in this hand I'm afraid of 99 and little else unless I think you're completely awful.
I'd be calling here with a 7 and possible even less than that. Making no sense is actually a reason to call, not to fold - you're a spunky sonofabitch thou so fair play!

FWIW I'd 50/50 between Flat and raise to c1800.

If I raise I cbet here 100% (poss not into 3 callers thou).

**Winning!** · 31-10-12, 17:36

3b sizing pre needs to be bigger, ~1500. Think I prefer a flat OOP though assuming we're fairly deep.

As played I might cbet smallish w all the backdoor stuff and overs, rep QQ+ and if called expect Jx/PPs a lot, meaning a chunky 2nd barrel on decent turns will work almost always unless villain makes 2P+. Checking is fine too though if villains are clueless.

River is bad, almost any hand villain bets for value will call a raise, meaning you only fold out bluffs, making calling a trivially better play. Folding is even better again

**Irish-kopite** · 01-11-12, 02:08

Originally posted by tglynn View Post

OK guys this is quite a weird hand so let me have it as I know (and knew at the time) it was weird but that was my thinking behind it. Bet amounts are as accurate as I remember.

So blinds are at 100/200 (as far as I remember), cut-off (who is a English guy playing laggy enough) makes it 450 to go, button and small blind (Ross Johnson) flat, I wake with AKo in my bb. I make it 1150 to go, all call. Flop comes J high 2

s, it checks around. Turn is a complete brick and is checked around again. River come the 9

No straight draw and board wasn't paired. It's checked to the cut-off who makes it around 2150, button and sb fold. My first instinct was obv to fold, but then I thought of what a tough spot it would put him in if I raised.

My thinking was, I had been playing quite tight and only showing down the goods, mainly due to it being my first major tourney. I had showed down Jacks which i c/called a river bet in a 3bet pot on 10 high board (had him on 10s before the river 10, and he had 9s). So I wasn't getting out of line atall. My image (i thought) was of a nervous player who could be pushed around a bit.

I felt if I was to raise, I knew I can rep almost nothing, except mabey rivered set of 9s, but I felt he could never have a flush here as he bets turn when it's checked to him i think. And low sets make up some of his range but 2 pair type hands find a fold tough aswell.

So I make it 6025, (put the 25 out there to make it appear smaller and therefore a value raise

).

Anyway, he tank folds. Opinions? Be harsh, I just felt at the time it would put him in a really tough spot and gave me a chance to use my image to rob some chips.

You are right you dont rep anything ...

Also,3bet more pre flop,there is 1550 in the pot and you raise 700 more.You should be raising to about 2k then when your heads up a simple cbet takes it down most of the time,especially with your image.

By raising so little you are letting the originial raiser come in for 2-1 and then the rest are getting good odds.

Also,what are stack sizes as they are important too?

**Irish-kopite** · 01-11-12, 02:10

Originally posted by tglynn View Post

Also what is the optimum line? As played but fold river?

As played a check fold is optimal...

**Irish-kopite** · 01-11-12, 02:17

Sorry..
Wrong thread haha

**tglynn** · 01-11-12, 02:20

Originally posted by Irish-kopite View Post

I think a fold is grand.Your line is strong and he has been passive so far so we havnt seen aggro so Id assume that he may have it when he gets aggro.

You may have just called flop and you may get good value off a ten as your hand is underrepresented..With the way the flop went its hard to know whether he is semi bluffing with a flush draw or if he has your crushed with trips or a house.

As played fold

**Mellor** · 01-11-12, 02:22

Originally posted by tglynn View Post

I'd say he meant to reply to the other IWF thread (Azari) where he had JJ on a ten high board.

**dectops** · 01-11-12, 22:22

im still getting over my river bustout with 10 left,my aces cracked by eventual winners queens,queen on the river ,dont think i want aces anymore

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