Btn vs Sb 3bet shoving range

[DrJFF]

Spot from a tourney yesterday can't find the HH but remember the spot, we are itm, 24 players left,


Blinds 700/1400 with an ante

Folded to hero who opens to 2888 from a 56k

Villain is in the sb and 3bets to 8k from about a 60k ish stack


without any reads, what is your shoving range?

[FeetMagic]

88+, AJ+ 100% of the time.

66/77, KJ+ 80%

22-55, QJ 55%

J10 Q9+ <50%

Suited connectors, two-gappers not mentioned above: 20-25%

[Winning!]

In a vacuum I'd 4b/c like TT+,AQ+,AJs+. Might shove some pairs, weaker Axs, suited broadways. Reads are hugely important tho

[peterswellman]

Any stats on steal and 3 betting as a whole? Player any good? So many players can fuck with you in a spot like this because stacks are awkward enough? How has your stealing been?

[Guest]

I'm prob not shoving tbh, I make the decision to 1.fold 2. 4bet fold or 3. 4bet call.
My 4bet calling range will be reasonably wide as well against a competent player, Im probably calling off with 88, AQ(maybe AJ read depending)!!!

[DaKlowen]

raising from 8k to 56k is insane irrespective of your holding, imo

[DrJFF]

raising from 8k to 56k is insane irrespective of your holding, imo

i didn't, the villain did,


my question is what should my 4bet jamming range be against this action

[loopers]

i didn't, the villain did

You've been 3bet to 8k, you are the one considering raising the remainder - this will be a large re-raise. That's what the other poster is saying.

You have nearly 40BB left behind. That's pretty deep at this stage of the tournament, in general. For this reason I think feetmagic's suggested range is too loose.

AJ+ 88+, or something along those lines.

Villian's 3bet/resteal stats tweak the range obviously, should really be included here if known.

[DrJFF]

would betting to like 17k and folding not be pretty terrible?

[loopers]

Yeah, I see what you're saying - 4 bet/folding here is not great and you give him the option to put you to the last decision for your tournament. I think most people will not b 5bet jamming light here, but...

I think I'm only likely to make a small 4 bet like that with monsters hoping he'll hove over.

You don't seem to be considering calling at all?
You're not desperately shortstacked by any means, playing a pot in position a definite option. If he was 3b-ing light to resteal, you should be able to take the pot on the flop a good amount of the time.
I think this option removes a lot of the guessing game involved in preflop re-raising. Like yo have 40BBs, no need to stick 'em all in on a hope &prayer..

my thought anyway, thanks for poting the hand.

do you have stats on him btw?

[Arazi]

would betting to like 17k and folding not be pretty terrible?

The size of his raise really means we can't have 4bet folding as an option, certainly can't 4bet/fold against a randomer.
In Irish Open at 500/1000 +50 recently Carlos Mortenson (90K) made it 2200 from the Button, I folded SB, BB (55k) made it 6500 and Mortenson shoved, seemed very spazzzy at the time. Yer man snapped with 10s and held vs AK

[DrJFF]

@ loopers,

no stats on him, have never used a hud,

i've been at the table for an orbit and he 3bet from the sb once to a similar size vs a cut-off opener,

other than that he flatted a 3x open from UTG +1 from Mid-position with AKs,

J22 flop went c/c , then he min raised a half pot bet on the turn which was a Jack and the river got checked down and he chopped with ace high


if i do call there will like 17k in the middle, obviously depends on my holding, some hands will play better than others,


@ Arazi, yeah shoving can look a lil bit spazzy but i defo prefer it over 4betting something different and calling off