ITM Spot

[GaryT]

This hand is from the late stages of a tourney. There's just under 60 left and the bubble just burst. I have around 630,000 in chips Button has just over 700,000. I'm about average. No significant money jumps until top 15.

The button is a very aggressive French player. I was on his table for a few hours the day before. He 3 bets a lot. Is also capable of making moves. I have quite an aggressive image as well. I've been opening then folding to 3 bets a lot more than he has all tournament. He seems to flat a lot 3 bets and fold to most 4 bets. I had been at this table for 2 orbits and I've raised once and taken down the blinds.


I get QQ in MP and open to my standard raise of 32,000

The button 3 bets to 74,000

Folded back to me and I make it 162,000 at this point I'm expecting him to fold or maybe 5 bet. If he 5 bets I'm shoving and if he shoves I'm snap calling.

He now just calls. This was something I didn't expect at all. I had only seen him call 1 4 bet and he showed up with aces the day before (lol sample size)

I don't really have a clue what he could have here. I thought the call looked super strong. In my head I was thinking I was in bad shape and flipping at best.

Flop comes 3 6 10

I lead out for 174,000, praying for a fold. If he calls I'm planning on shutting down and check folding the turn. If he shoves I don't know what to do. I should of thought for longer here and made a plan for a shove. I should look super strong here putting in half my stack so it doesn't really look like I've room to fold.

He thinks for a second. I can see him counting down my stack. He then shoves all in.

What's our move here? I feel like I can't really fold because half my stacks in the pot already but I can't really call because I'm fairly sure I'm behind.

Do I have to call after putting in so much of my stack? Am I giving his call pre to much credit here? So pretty much should I be hating life and calling or hating life and folding?


*The bet sizes are approx. I didn't make a note of them at the time.

[ghostface]

Puke... I prob check flop with the hope its checked back. Prob check call/fold flop as ghey as it sounds on the bubble and if call and he fires big on turn give up. Seems I've become a nit in past 10 mins

Edit: I read this as on bubble not bubble having burst but above prob still applies for me

[Dice75]

Loving his 4 bet call.
Tough spot.

Without having a proper feel for the villain, the only hands your ahead of are JJ & AK/Q.
I'd imagine he shows up with AA/KK/set a good bit here.
Is he cautious enough to flat with KK to see a non Ace flop?

Is there an argument for check calling a non-shove on flop & hoping to get to showdown depending on turn?

Quite villain/history dependant.

How many BBs left if you fold?

[Moneymaker]

I check the flop. We only get value from one hand, and thats JJ. He's gonna jam on us so often and we won't know what to do, no clue what i'd do here, it's such a weird spot.

I check the flop and re-evaluate, call a reasonable size bet on all bricks, and probably sigh and fold on any bad card(A/K/J/spade).

As played I probably call it off like a donk after talking myself into thinking he has AKs. We're probably smoked here though.

[starofcctv4]

His flat of the 4bet in position just looks super strong however remember he is in position therefore bringing in 88 99 and 1010 in my opinion and hes just set mining being an aggresive player!saying that I would check flop hoping for a check behind and eventual showdown otherwise you have no choice than to fold!your lead out on the flop may also look weak to him!

[eamonhonda]

Any chance we are giving agressive villain too much credit for a hand here? Could he be making a move on your c bet with a semi bluff/draw?

[Winning!]

bet/call ~95k on the flop to induce villain to raise or call wider. If he calls c/shove most turns, c/fold if A/K/J falls. Call as played, he can have JJ/AK/AQ here some and you seriously cant be thinking of folding after putting in over half you stack. That would mean you were bluffing... with an overpair... hoping villain would fold a bigger overpair... lol

[BigDeal]

Not sure the 4bet call is as strong as you think. You seen him 3bets a lot so he will expect you to be capable of 4betting a wide range, and it's 88k more into a pot of 260k + for him to call in position.
Once you c-bet I think you have to call the shove, just bink a Q if you're behind!

[alanmc101]

Why would you bet so much otf? Bet 80-90k and see what he does, if he raises its a shitty spot but potting it a committing yourself is terrible. As played you half to call, but with smaller sizing you can decide, against an aggro player there's still a lot of draws he can have here, I prob go with the hand a lot and put it down as a cooler if he wakes up with bullits here.

[GaryT]

I would be left with around 20bbs if I folded. I don't think he had any JJ/TT/QQ type hands as I'd imagine he'd 5 bet with them. I've 4 bet folded a few times in the tournament while he's been at my table. Think I once 5 bet folded against him actually.

I didn't want to check because I was fairly sure he was betting if checked to and check folding QQ seems a bit weak.. I thought if I led out I might have some chance of getting a fold from AK maybe? I had no idea where I was in the hand. I was hoping he had a small pocket pair which he was trying to steal with the 3bet pre then decided to set mine after my 4bet.

[ghostface]

bet/call ~95k on the flop to induce villain to raise or call wider. If he calls c/shove most turns, c/fold if A/K/J falls. Call as played, he can have JJ/AK/AQ here some and you seriously cant be thinking of folding after putting in over half you stack. That would mean you were bluffing... with an overpair... hoping villain would fold a bigger overpair... lol

Why would you bet so much otf? Bet 80-90k and see what he does, if he raises its a shitty spot but potting it a committing yourself is terrible. As played you half to call, but with smaller sizing you can decide, against an aggro player there's still a lot of draws he can have here, I prob go with the hand a lot and put it down as a cooler if he wakes up with bullits here.

On pots such as these that are 4 bet called do you always cbet for c. less than one third pot/lot less than 4bet size?

[alanmc101]

On pots such as these that are 4 bet called do you always cbet for c. less than one third pot/lot less than 4bet size?

100%, there's jus no need to bet more, this is standard for a lot of good mttrs, you see it all the time. The pots so bloated that we'll still be able to get stacks in by the river with our overpairs and when we're bluffing we're getting a better price on our bluffs.

[Winning!]

what alan said

[Mellor]

i think we are giving him too much credit here. If he's super argo I'd expect a 5bet with KK.
So folding her is basically saying he has AA. I don't think we are correct enoguh of the time to justify the fold. He are giving up a ton as played. Be prob heed to be right 80% of the time to mke it right.

[GaryT]

Cheers for all the replies!

I ended up hating life and folding after a nice 10minute tank. Just couldn't see anything that i felt he would play like that which I could beat. Every time i looked up at him kept thinking he looks so composed he has to be strong etc. Pretty much talking myself into it.

The fold then annoyed me for the rest of the day which luckily wasn't long enough for me to go bust!!

Cheers for all the replies.

[Mellor]

Ever find out what he had.
He had AKs imo. If he said AA he was lying