JJ on turn

[TheWitchDoctor]

My mate was telling me about tis hand so sorry I have to type it all out.
He was playing an online Sateltite with 3 packages but its still 27 out he has just been moved tables so no reads..

Hero 5420 UTG+2 (about average)
Villain 7916 button

Blinds 30-60

Preflop hero made it 150 and got called in one spot from the button.

Flop 7s Tc 3h

Hero bets 240
Villain raises 480
Hero calls

Turn 8h

so my mate checks and the villain bets 1500 into a 1350 pot
and he calls.

River 4d

Hero check folds to a shove on the river...

I'm thinking he should really be making his mind up on the turn about the hand,
I also think that Villain line looks really strong but you do see people do some crazy shit out there..

Do people think its a strong line and we should fold the turn?
If we make up our mind he is bluffing does anyone shove turn to protect or do we just go for a call call line, if we take that line do we actually fold any rivers considering the 4 was a blank?
It had me thinking for a while maybe its just a standard but i'm very interested in peoples thoughts on it..

[drive56]

I think for me this is largely villain dependent. As you said you dont have much reads on the opponent i think its a fold on the turn. You often see poor players making that exact play with A 10 however so thats my thinking on villain dependent, also if he's a fish, they often think that board doesnt hit your range fairly often so he decided to check raise and double barrell. I think if I decide he's bluffing I'm going to jam the turn. I dont think the call call option is the best as there are not a lot of river cards I want to see

[bustamoves]

If we decide he is bluffing i dont see why we should 'shove to protect' on the turn so i prefer the call/call line. That said, the min raise is a bit scary imo and so i'm thinking we're beat alot already. Without reads it's a tough spot but i'm almost always calling turn and shrug folding to river shove. his overbet on turn looks a bit dodge too so i'd be thinking he could be more on the fishy side so him overvaluing hands like AT and misreading our range increase in probability but it's still prob not enough reason for me to call off my stack knowing nothing else about villian. I know alot of people say if you call turn in these spots you must call blank rivers. I'm not entirely convinced but could be a leak i need to address.

[Laois Hammer]

Does anyone fold flop? Im not sure if i do but first thought was to either fold or click-back fold the flop.

Hes never going to check it down after raising a cbet so flatting seems to achieve nothing if you fold on later streets.
Definately hate calling the overvet on turn snd check folding to a 4 on river, makes no sense his lines too strong/bluffy to think your not gonna have to deal with a river bet.

[TheWitchDoctor]

Cheers lads I thought we'd have a few different views on it..

I think its the bet sizing that has me so confused about the hand.
Like the min raise flop over bet turn looks really strong but if you had such a strong hand why would you want it to be so obvious so then I think he should be bluffing a lot more the problem with that is after his turn bet gets called he is giving us nearly 2.5-1 on a river call.

The more I think about it the more it looks like a bluff to me where on the end he just said I have to stick it in now and hope he folds his overpair.

On the river say we call I'd expect to see a flopped set or nothing really agree???

[KK82]

Cheers lads I thought we'd have a few different views on it..

I think its the bet sizing that has me so confused about the hand.
Like the min raise flop over bet turn looks really strong but if you had such a strong hand why would you want it to be so obvious so then I think he should be bluffing a lot more the problem with that is after his turn bet gets called he is giving us nearly 2.5-1 on a river call.

The more I think about it the more it looks like a bluff to me where on the end he just said I have to stick it in now and hope he folds his overpair.

On the river say we call I'd expect to see a flopped set or nothing really agree???

Judging by they betting in the hand, I'd assume the villain is a complete fish. Don't think many good players would play any type of hand that way. I prob fold the turn this early in a tournament. If he's that bad, there'll be better spots. It's pretty tough to analyse this type of play since most of the time the villain won't have a clue what he's doing himself.

[drive56]

The more I think about it I like loais hammers views. I dont think I fold to his check raise, but if u click it back and get shipped I think you know you're beat. Im not sure I think either line is decent. But i definitley don't like calling the turn and then folding the river

[Winning!]

Cant fold flop, we're never expect a turn overbet so we mostly c/c down getting two streets by c/c turn then check-check river, or check-check turn then b/f or c/c river.

As played I rage fold turn since we're almost always facing a shove OTR with sizing. A decent number of mid-strength PPs/connectors in a randoms BTN flatting range pre ante that connect heavily with that board, and the flop CIB can as often be 1P hands looking to check the turn for cheap showdown, but then catch 2P+ and decide to bomb heavily. Make a note and move on.