how should this have been played, or maybe it was played alright?

[sixtwo]

Hand from 250 DeepStack atWPT

Table has been pretty active and we have seen a lot of flops multi way, i am playing 100k, ave at this stage is around 25k ( i won a monster pot when i got it in pre with AAvKKvQQ in first level, and have just been chipping away nicely since)

well known english pro, has just been mover to table with a stack similar to my own, i know this guy having played with him before, very competitant, and ultra aggresive....

i am UTG with AK blinds 200-400

i open to 950, folded to him he makes it 2100, back on me i make it 5500 now he lifts all his 5k chips (45Kish) and dumps them in middle, back on me????

[alanmc101]

250 bbs deep flat the 3 bet pre, he's 3 bettin your utg open. 4 betting leaves the door open for him to do this to u. Now that he's done this u gotta fold. If he's a well know pro here unless he's on drugs he's not piling in 100bbs here without you crushed. Feels like aa praying u hav kk and cant fold.

[markc]

Don't think it has to be AA/KK. A lot of pros will flat AA to a 4 bet this deep and look to get it all in on the flop rather than shove massive as a 5 bet hoping you have a calling hand. An aggressive pro could well do this with QQ/JJ/AK, I think your table image comes into it here also. If he thinks you are capable of 3 betting light then his 4 Bet All In could well be something you are flipping against. Unlikely you are crushing anything in his range here.

I think that this deep I am never 4 betting the AK myself without a clear plan for what I am going to do to a shove. I'll snap fold now to a tight player but against a very aggro pro I don't think it's an auto fold. At a very tough table if I am comfortable flipping for half my stack I might call here, if not (or if I think there are far easy spots to accumulate chips) I'll fold.

Edit - Just noticed he's not all in. Clear enough fold now I think. Still think he is badly misplaying AA/KK but is possible given you have raised and 4 bet from UTG.

[Rodriquez]

250 bbs deep flat the 3 bet pre, he's 3 bettin your utg open. 4 betting leaves the door open for him to do this to u. Now that he's done this u gotta fold. If he's a well know pro here unless he's on drugs he's not piling in 100bbs here without you crushed. Feels like aa praying u hav kk and cant fold.

Why call the 3 bet if u tink he has u crushed wit AA or KK? Why not fold then? Wat u gonna do if u hit an A or a K or even worse both?

[Winning!]

flat 3b, fold now

[Rodriquez]

flat 3b, fold now

Whats the plan if u flat the 3bet when u hit d A or K? eg u check he bets 4k?

[BigDeal]

Whats the plan if u flat the 3bet when u hit d A or K? eg u check he bets 4k?

You call, obv.

[DAMO72]

Hand from 250 DeepStack atWPT

Table has been pretty active and we have seen a lot of flops multi way, i am playing 100k, ave at this stage is around 25k ( i won a monster pot when i got it in pre with AAvKKvQQ in first level, and have just been chipping away nicely since)

well known english pro, has just been mover to table with a stack similar to my own, i know this guy having played with him before, very competitant, and ultra aggresive....

i am UTG with AK blinds 200-400

i open to 950, folded to him he makes it 2100, back on me i make it 5500 now he lifts all his 5k chips (45Kish) and dumps them in middle, back on me????

So you were telling me Porky Pies , shame on you Philip . And there was me slagging Mr Marrow all day for the way he knocked you out with
J 10 v your KK . No wonder he couldn't remember the hand and LOL at you reading him for being a competant player , he's a donk with a roll .

PS. Learn to fold

[Winning!]

Whats the plan if u flat the 3bet when u hit d A or K? eg u check he bets 4k?

call, c/r some too. I don't think you realise how wide villain can be here, KK+ is a tiny % of his range when we block both

[fumyname]

If this hand is v paul marrow no theory/discusdion needed im getting it in all day v him and his range!!!!

As played i kinda like the 4bet fold v a good player, i dont ever call the 5bet jam with stacks etc unless its against a known villain such as mr marrow whose range is wider...

[sixtwo]

So you were telling me Porky Pies , shame on you Philip . And there was me slagging Mr Marrow all day for the way he knocked you out with
J 10 v your KK . No wonder he couldn't remember the hand and LOL at you reading him for being a competant player , he's a donk with a roll .

PS. Learn to fold

didnt want his name mentioned damo, plus i never said it was KK

PS. learn to listen

[sixtwo]

If this hand is v paul marrow no theory/discusdion needed im getting it in all day v him and his range!!!!

As played i kinda like the 4bet fold v a good player, i dont ever call the 5bet jam with stacks etc unless its against a known villain such as mr marrow whose range is wider...

I did get them in, and as damo has pointed out he had J10 and called it off and, well, you know the rest....

my point is, and my question is, should we ever be getting 150BB deep in pre so early with a hand like AK, which we are 99% sure is ahead, but at same time its really only a flip???

does this hand play any differently to a player, who like mr marrow, is only taking, or trying to, take advantage of the fact that i am relativly unkown??

[peterswellman]

Versus Paul Marrow wouldn't be folding this in a million years. Complete spazztard. He makes tons of plays that make no sense and are def not profitable. 4 bet for value and always call it off versus him.

Hand I played against him was I open 99 to 250 UTG blinds 50/100, he flats from small blind and snap shoves 7k a 972 flop with 66. I call and he hits straight. WP sir.

As for only being a flip? I'm sure there are plenty of Ax and Kx hands in his range that we crush. And, I want to him to have J10 everyday of the week against my AK. Long term we make money just concentrate on that.

[anymorejokes]

I did get them in, and as damo has pointed out he had J10 and called it off and, well, you know the rest....

my point is, and my question is, should we ever be getting 150BB deep in pre so early with a hand like AK, which we are 99% sure is ahead, but at same time its really only a flip???

does this hand play any differently to a player, who like mr marrow, is only taking, or trying to, take advantage of the fact that i am relativly unkown??

If your 99% sure your ahead why is it really only a flip?
Also would question your description of villain in hand.

[NuckChorris]

well known english pro, has just been mover to table with a stack similar to my own, i know this guy having played with him before, very competitant, and ultra aggresive....

Also would question your description of villain in hand.

That's because you read it as "very competant and ultra aggresive". If you read it as "very competitive and ultra aggresive" it'd be bang on description! Even if it's a new word mixing the two it's prob close.

[blaaaaaaah]

If this hand is v paul marrow no theory/discusdion needed im getting it in all day v him and his range!!!!

As played i kinda like the 4bet fold v a good player, i dont ever call the 5bet jam with stacks etc unless its against a known villain such as mr marrow whose range is wider...

Well then this means you are 4bet bluffing with ak and are only using it for preflop purposes. It becomes a leak then mate just so you know.

There is no discussion tho if it is v paul marrow. Just get it in. Kinda ruined the thread tho with everyone's responses fixed on the fact its marrow being the aggressor.

[blaaaaaaah]

Whats the plan if u flat the 3bet when u hit d A or K? eg u check he bets 4k?

When flatting a 3bet oop with ak, plan is to check to villain and allow him to cbet/bluff flops, if he doesn't slow down on any street then it's justa check call all the way. You can raise some A,K high flops in hope your opponent does have a pair and wouldn't think you would flat ak and probably get paid 3 streets if stubborn. Common one is you get two streets of value whether it's c/bet/call c/bet/call then check check river or c/bet/call check/check then you vbet river and he calls.

Hope that explains it.

[anymorejokes]

That's because you read it as "very competant and ultra aggresive". If you read it as "very competitive and ultra aggresive" it'd be bang on description! Even if it's a new word mixing the two it's prob close.

The pro part as well!

[DAMO72]

Versus Paul Marrow wouldn't be folding this in a million years. Complete GENTLEMAN . He makes tons of plays that make no sense and are def not profitable. 4 bet for value and always call it off versus him.

Hand I played against him was I open 99 to 250 UTG blinds 50/100, he flats from small blind and snap shoves 7k a 972 flop with 66. I call and he hits straight. WP sir.

As for only being a flip? I'm sure there are plenty of Ax and Kx hands in his range that we crush. And, I want to him to have J10 everyday of the week against my AK. Long term we make money just concentrate on that.

FYP

[DAMO72]

didnt want his name mentioned damo, plus i never said it was KK

PS. learn to listen

Bullshit

[Guest]

marrow was at my table last year at IO and played very badly imo.. as said i flat the 3b pre.

[Rodriquez]

When flatting a 3bet oop with ak, plan is to check to villain and allow him to cbet/bluff flops, if he doesn't slow down on any street then it's justa check call all the way. You can raise some A,K high flops in hope your opponent does have a pair and wouldn't think you would flat ak and probably get paid 3 streets if stubborn. Common one is you get two streets of value whether it's c/bet/call c/bet/call then check check river or c/bet/call check/check then you vbet river and he calls.

Hope that explains it.

Thanks 4 dat. I was mainly directing to the people who thought he was crushed pre against AA or KK but i suppose that assumption was only made when the big 4-bet came in so it was a bit of a stupid point by me!!

[Norwichfanrob]

Against a solid English pro it's a fold , against marrow it's a fist pump snap with aj let alone ak

[DAMO72]

Fold pre