Floating Flop in 3bet Pot

[RoadSweeper]

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

MP: $100
CO: $109.40
Hero (BTN): $122.80
SB: $100
BB: $213.34
UTG: $113.20

Pre-Flop: 9 7 dealt to Hero (BTN)
3 folds, Hero raises to $3, SB folds, BB raises to $11, Hero calls $8

Flop: ($22.50) 3 4 5 (2 Players)
BB bets $15, Hero calls $15

Turn: ($52.50) Q (2 Players)
BB bets $23, Hero...?

Havent played in a while so a bit rusty.

Villian is 10% 3bet from BB. He plays 22/17/4 overall and I generally out play him. He seems spewy and gets tilted easy. I think flop float is okay even though he barells alot.

Thoughts on the turn.

[digiman]

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

MP: $100
CO: $109.40
Hero (BTN): $122.80
SB: $100
BB: $213.34
UTG: $113.20

Pre-Flop: 9 7 dealt to Hero (BTN)
3 folds, Hero raises to $3, SB folds, BB raises to $11, Hero calls $8

Flop: ($22.50) 3 4 5 (2 Players)
BB bets $15, Hero calls $15

Turn: ($52.50) Q (2 Players)
BB bets $23, Hero...?

Havent played in a while so a bit rusty.

Villian is 10% 3bet from BB. He plays 22/17/4 overall and I generally out play him. He seems spewy and gets tilted easy. I think flop float is okay even though he barells alot.

Thoughts on the turn.

Does not compute imo! I don't like it, I'd almost rather jam it in to be honest. It's going to be pretty hard to outplay this guy on any other street with the size of his flop bet and the fact that be barells a lot as well. Also I don't think you should be opening to 3x OTB and defo not calling the 3b giving the size of his raise as the stack to pot ratio on every street is not going to favour you. His flop bet size emphasies this even more.

Turn, I'm not sure what's best here. You can't get him to fold any hand he bets for value. Calling is probably best and hope to hit on river. Problem is you won't be able to win the pot if you miss as he will probably jam any river he missed and if he checks with a SD value hand he won't fold it. But looks like we have implied odds if we hit.

Havn't played nlhe in quite a while now though!!

[Daragh999]

Prefer 4-betting pre than calling if he has a 10% 3-bet, if you believe its easy to outplay him post-flop calling is OK but i think folding would be better. Like the flop float, there are a ton of low cards he has to just give up on and even if he has a big pair make his life v difficult. I think turn is super close between calling and jamming. I call because i can see him calling us quite wide with 66-JJ given were not repping alot. Bluffing any river Q or under if he checks to us.

[Line Us]

I dont mind calling pre too much, flop is standard too for me with the gutter + backdoor if he gives up on turns and rivers a bit.

+1 to calling turn though vs a reg with standard barrelling stats, I'd say he will give up on a few blank rivers as our range for calling the turn again is relatively strong. Also I dont like raising the turn as we will be slowplaying sets, straights and will be calling with 66-JJ along with the occasional Qx float so when we raise we rep pretty weak and can't expect any hand he bet for value to fold (if he is any way capable).

For the turn raise to be profitable he will need to be barrelling the flop and turn a high % with hands that have none or little equity for us to have enough fold equity. If thats the case and he is just a lunatic then a jam is definitely +ev but vs most I'd float again.

[ikilldurrr1]

I think pre is the only questionable street. I have started folding in these spots in the last couple of months and do think it reduces variance. I like your flop float and would also call turn. I shove river if checked to unimproved also.

[Arazi]

I think pre is the only questionable street. I have started folding in these spots in the last couple of months and do think it reduces variance. I like your flop float and would also call turn. I shove river if checked to unimproved also.

As villian I think I would be snapping on the river with nearly my full range of one pair hands here getting 3/1 so given that I'd be between getting it in now or calling with implied odds, probably favouring the latter.

Pre is very loose. I'd rather be deeper to be calling 3 bets like this with gappers.

[digiman]

Prefer 4-betting pre than calling if he has a 10% 3-bet, if you believe its easy to outplay him post-flop calling is OK but i think folding would be better. Like the flop float, there are a ton of low cards he has to just give up on and even if he has a big pair make his life v difficult. I think turn is super close between calling and jamming. I call because i can see him calling us quite wide with 66-JJ given were not repping alot. Bluffing any river Q or under if he checks to us.

I don't like to 4b pre with this hand, it's got to much play-ability in a 3b pot to 4b bluff with unless he folds to 4b alot or something. I'd rather 4b with some total air hand, or something with blockers to an A or K.

I also don't see how a Q is a good river to bluff or any under cards either? We only rep a set coz its not as if we shoving here with a JJ or worse. I'd say he would be calling pretty fast with any of his value hands on the turn.

I dont mind calling pre too much, flop is standard too for me with the gutter + backdoor if he gives up on turns and rivers a bit.

I think that there should be a better line on the flop than calling a 2/3 psb to a guy that barrells a lot. If it was a half pot bet then I don't mind floating to much as the pot is not so big on the turn.

I think pre is the only questionable street. I have started folding in these spots in the last couple of months and do think it reduces variance. I like your flop float and would also call turn. I shove river if checked to unimproved also.

I agree that preflop is a fold anyway!! but the hand should be min raised pre esp against a guy that is 3b that much.

[Winning!]

I probably 4bet or fold pre, but if he's that exploitable post, calling is fine.

As played the float is standard enough, esp if he barrels like always.

Although the turn is a great card for us his bet-sizing is a bit confusing, as I would expect him to barrel this much bigger if he was trying to make us fold worse pairs/weak draws. Seems odd, might just be trying to look weak. I probably just call and try to get there or bluff him off if checked to since it's hard to have called two streets in a 3b pot then shoved the river with worse than 2P+ and we are getting a decent price to float again with the increased equity.

[ikilldurrr1]

As villian I think I would be snapping on the river with nearly my full range of one pair hands here getting 3/1 so given that I'd be between getting it in now or calling with implied odds, probably favouring the latter.

Pre is very loose. I'd rather be deeper to be calling 3 bets like this with gappers.

From my experience, when people fire only 2 streets in 3b pots and then check river, they are giving up a very high %. Even more so against guys with wide 3b ranges. It looks like we have showdown value and are not folding.

I agree with the minraising pre btw too.

[Hectorjelly]

If you shove a blank river it's to get Ace/king high to fold, and maybe small pairs, not to get an overpair to fold. I think you played it fine, i'd fold most of the time to a three bet; calling occasionally.

There's very little difference between 97s and 98s, like 1 or 2 % equity against a tightish range.

[Bozzer]

Preflop is a fold imo. In general we should tighten preflop calling ranges against aggro barrellers and especially with a hand like this.

Flop is quite marginal given his sizing and aggressive tendencies. I would probably fold (which supports why i fold pre).

There's very little difference between 97s and 98s, like 1 or 2 % equity against a tightish range.

Looking at raw preflop equity can be a bit misleading of course. There's only a 3% equity difference between 98s and 95s against a 10% range for example. 98s will flop a gutter or oesd 4% more than 97s. Obv not a huge difference, but worth pointing out.

[AndyFatBastard]

Weird spot. Pre is fine. You have to do this sometimes vs this kind of player.

Villian's turn sizing makes sense when you consider the pot will be ~100 and you'll have ~75 left OTR. It's actually pretty scary. I might decide I've picked the wrong time to call light and float and just fold here, although I hate leaving all that equity behind.

[NicoSanty]

Weird spot. Pre is fine. You have to do this sometimes vs this kind of player.

Villian's turn sizing makes sense when you consider the pot will be ~100 and you'll have ~75 left OTR. It's actually pretty scary. I might decide I've picked the wrong time to call light and float and just fold here, although I hate leaving all that equity behind.

[IMG][/IMG]

[TommyGunne]

There's only a 3% equity difference between 98s and 95s against a 10% range for example. 98s will flop a gutter or oesd 4% more than 97s. Obv not a huge difference, but worth pointing out.

I like your post. I'm not sure why people say "only" and then say a few %. If you have a couple % ROI on all your decisions in poker it would be sick. Incredibly sick. Those couple of %s make such an enormous difference to your bb/100.

[AndyFatBastard]

doublefacepalmkz.jpg

That bad? Really?

[Daragh999]

That bad? Really?

Folding the turn..................................YES!!!

[Hectorjelly]

I like your post. I'm not sure why people say "only" and then say a few %. If you have a couple % ROI on all your decisions in poker it would be sick. Incredibly sick. Those couple of %s make such an enormous difference to your bb/100.

No not at all, in this case your exact preflop equity doesn't make that much difference since you will be going to a showdown rarely, so a 2% difference is negligible.

[RBBlogger]

I think you should only be calling a 3b here if you know player is 3betting you with a polarised range. If he 3bets a depolarised range then it is more profitable to 4b bluff but as you eluded to earlier, its better to 4b bluff with A or K blockers.. So all in all this is a fold pre.

As the hand plays out it is very much down to your read on the player. Have you seen him double barrelling light? And what is his image of you at this time, what has he seen you call 3bets IP with? I think id fold the turn without the above info..

[Bozzer]

I might decide I've picked the wrong time to call light and float and just fold here, although I hate leaving all that equity behind.

I think id fold the turn without the above info..

Folding turn is terrible here getting better than 3:1. Its a clear call even if we were allin on the turn and there's no way we have reverse implied odds on our outs against someone aggressive.

[CheckRaise]

For someone to 3bet 10% from the BB against a button raise what range of hands would you put him on pre? Would the Q not hit his range almost as much as an ace?

What range of hands would you raise the turn for value/protection? kq, jq, kk, pair&FD. Thats a narrow enough range as he would probably expect you to call the turn with a set in position and maybe even flat the turn with aq. If you raise the turn you are representing a hand that you may fold to a shove and he can call with a lot of his range profitably imo.