Emop spots

[tipp86]

Ok im just going to post a few weird spots from emops some tougher than others.

Day 1

Hand 1
25-50 level
Scandi opens to 150 in ep i raise him to 500 with QQ in cu and bulgarian guy calls button and scandi folds.I had 3 bet the scandi a few hands earlier. We are both playing around 20k.

Flop 7c 8c 4d I bet 750 and he makes it 2500 i flat.

Turn 4h i check he bets 3.5k and i fold how weak is this? No reads on the guy he had raised a few hands but i couldnt decide if he was a bad local at this point. The only feeling i had was that he wasnt making a move he was v betting but i felt there was a small chance he could do it with JJ 1010.


Hand 2
200-400 ante 25
Bad local makes it 1800 he was making big raises like these but not all that often he was in emp i had position on him. I call with 1010 he has about 25k and i cover.

Flop j84 he bets 4k i just fold again is this very weak?


Day 2

Hand 3
600-1200
Scandi ep raises to 2.6k btn calls, i call in sb with KQ and bb calls.

Flop k68 rainbow he bets 5k , btn calls and i call bb folds.

Turn 8 k he shoves for 28k which is close to what the pot is and btn folds.

What do we do here? No history as new to table but he looked like he could play. I folded once again.


Hand 4

1500-3000
Israeli old guy makes it 6.1k with 75k behind i call with 99 i cover him about 90k.

Flop 10 10 7 he bets 10k on flop

Turn 8 he bets 20k i fold.

I had played a lot with him early in the tournament he was a typical limper fish and most of his stack had been got early making stubborn calls against a swede who loved to donate chips bluffing him.

[The Istanbul]

Well done on the cash Enda despite some of these plays
Hand 1
25-50 level
Scandi opens to 150 in ep i raise him to 500 with QQ in cu and bulgarian guy calls button and scandi folds.I had 3 bet the scandi a few hands earlier. We are both playing around 20k.

Flop 7c 8c 4d I bet 750 and he makes it 2500 i flat.

Turn 4h i check he bets 3.5k and i fold how weak is this? No reads on the guy he had raised a few hands but i couldnt decide if he was a bad local at this point. The only feeling i had was that he wasnt making a move he was v betting but i felt there was a small chance he could do it with JJ 1010.

What were stacks at start of hand? I realise this is early in tournament but you could and should have made your mind up on the flop to either go all the way or fold. FWIW I make it €6500 on flop (starting stacks 30k).

Hand 2
200-400 ante 25
Bad local makes it 1800 he was making big raises like these but not all that often he was in emp i had position on him. I call with 1010 he has about 25k and i cover.

Flop j84 he bets 4k i just fold again is this very weak?

I like a RR here also.


Day 2

Hand 3
600-1200
Scandi ep raises to 2.6k btn calls, i call in sb with KQ and bb calls.

Flop k68 rainbow he bets 5k , btn calls and i call bb folds.

Turn 8 k he shoves for 28k which is close to what the pot is and btn folds.

What do we do here? No history as new to table but he looked like he could play. I folded once again.

I fold pre OOP here. Again if I do call and hit my hand as you have I probably call it off.


Hand 4

1500-3000
Israeli old guy makes it 6.1k with 75k behind i call with 99 i cover him about 90k.

Flop 10 10 7 he bets 10k on flop

Turn 8 he bets 20k i fold.

I had played a lot with him early in the tournament he was a typical limper fish and most of his stack had been got early making stubborn calls against a swede who loved to donate chips bluffing him.[/QUOTE]

Tricky one-probably play this as you have.

[boba_fett3099]

Hand 1: Fine, i'd have to have some reads/history to call down here. Obv could have tons of semibluffs in his range but against randomers we're rarely ahead imo.

Hand 2: He'd have to be a nit for me to fold to one bet here, i'd peel and prob fold to a double barrell again depending how aggro he is.

Hand 3: Not sure I like the call pre, how deep are we? I think there could be an argument for squeezing pre here and folding to a 4bet, depending on the stack sizes (im assuming we have KQo, i'd call if suited). Folding is prob nitty though. This is a pretty tough spot and against an unkown I think we have to fold.

Hand 4: What position was villian in here, if hes a typical loose passive fish who now min-raises from ep or whatever he's almost always got an overpair here. I think I could find a fold on the flop, again depending on how bad he is.

[tipp86]

Hand 3: Not sure I like the call pre, how deep are we? I think there could be an argument for squeezing pre here and folding to a 4bet, depending on the stack sizes (im assuming we have KQo, i'd call if suited). Folding is prob nitty though. This is a pretty tough spot and against an unkown I think we have to fold.
IM 60 bb deep with the other 2, original raiser was the shortest my figures could be off memory is poor

Hand 4: What position was villian in here, if hes a typical loose passive fish who now min-raises from ep or whatever he's almost always got an overpair here. I think I could find a fold on the flop, again depending on how bad he is.
Middle position

.

[tipp86]

Well done on the cash Enda despite some of these plays
Hand 1
25-50 level
Scandi opens to 150 in ep i raise him to 500 with QQ in cu and bulgarian guy calls button and scandi folds.I had 3 bet the scandi a few hands earlier. We are both playing around 20k.

Flop 7c 8c 4d I bet 750 and he makes it 2500 i flat.

Turn 4h i check he bets 3.5k and i fold how weak is this? No reads on the guy he had raised a few hands but i couldnt decide if he was a bad local at this point. The only feeling i had was that he wasnt making a move he was v betting but i felt there was a small chance he could do it with JJ 1010.

What were stacks at start of hand? I realise this is early in tournament but you could and should have made your mind up on the flop to either go all the way or fold. FWIW I make it €6500 on flop (starting stacks 30k).

20 k starting stack. I really dont like your idea of shoving the flop i mean there is not a whole lot of worse hands that can call us if we shove. Actually re reading that you dont say shove so i assume that you mean call him all the way? I just feel that certain guys raise these flops to see where they stand and will check the turn so often and il get to throw out a nice v bet on river.

If the guy fires 3 barrels im pretty sure im behind. i sort of understand what you mean by either fold flop or go all the way but i really just think you can afford to see a turn there. Il be interested to hear more thoughts on it.
Hand 2
200-400 ante 25
Bad local makes it 1800 he was making big raises like these but not all that often he was in emp i had position on him. I call with 1010 he has about 25k and i cover.

Flop j84 he bets 4k i just fold again is this very weak?

I like a RR here also.

Reraise on the flop or reraise pre flop?

If i make it 10k on the flop and he shoves im pretty much never good i think.

Day 2

Hand 3
600-1200
Scandi ep raises to 2.6k btn calls, i call in sb with KQ and bb calls.

Flop k68 rainbow he bets 5k , btn calls and i call bb folds.

Turn 8 k he shoves for 28k which is close to what the pot is and btn folds.

What do we do here? No history as new to table but he looked like he could play. I folded once again.

I fold pre OOP here. Again if I do call and hit my hand as you have I probably call it off.

Cant disagree with that really.

Hand 4

1500-3000
Israeli old guy makes it 6.1k with 75k behind i call with 99 i cover him about 90k.

Flop 10 10 7 he bets 10k on flop

Turn 8 he bets 20k i fold.

I had played a lot with him early in the tournament he was a typical limper fish and most of his stack had been got early making stubborn calls against a swede who loved to donate chips bluffing him.

Tricky one-probably play this as you have.[/QUOTE]

[AndyFatBastard]

Just wanted to preface this by saying we can only comment on the theoretical ends of these hands, and I'd rarely ever criticize someone for going with a live read unless it was utterly bonkers.

1: I'm never folding turn. You've just counterfeited his two-pairs, and live donks love those suited connectors early on. Call now and evaluate river.

2: It's fine given reads.

3. I think a fold is ok given villian has cbet a dry flop 4-ways, got two callers and then fired the turn. If he was super-aggro it would be a call, but you haven't given any indication that's the case at all.

4. I'm always reluctant to fold in these kind of situations because a guy like this is likely to pay you off when you bink your straight or your FH. You haven't got much implied odds to make this worthwhile, though. Against anyone else I like a turn semibluff shove, but given your description I think folding is fine.

[boba_fett3099]

1: I'm never folding turn. You've just counterfeited his two-pairs, and live donks love those suited connectors early on. Call now and evaluate river.

We've only counterfeited 78! And he cold called a 3bet pre so its fairly safe to assume that its a tiny part of his range if at all...

[boba_fett3099]

IM 60 bb deep with the other 2, original raiser was the shortest my figures could be off memory is poor

Just reading back over the bet sizing seem like the OR has 30bbs so I like a 3bet bluff here unless the button is really loose and likely to peel often. Original raiser can't call it's either shove or fold and he's almost never 4bet shoving as a bluff here with BTN to act behind.

[AndyFatBastard]

We've only counterfeited 78! And he cold called a 3bet pre so its fairly safe to assume that its a tiny part of his range if at all...

This is fair, but the turn is effectively a blank. The only hand he can have that its improved relative to your hand is the unlikely Xc4c. Given that and the relatively small bet, it's a call IMO. I certainly wouldn't call the extra 1750 on the flop in order to fold to 3.5k on this turn.

[thechamp87]

Ok im just going to post a few weird spots from emops some tougher than others.

Day 1

Hand 1
25-50 level
Scandi opens to 150 in ep i raise him to 500 with QQ in cu and bulgarian guy calls button and scandi folds.I had 3 bet the scandi a few hands earlier. We are both playing around 20k.

Flop 7c 8c 4d I bet 750 and he makes it 2500 i flat.

Turn 4h i check he bets 3.5k and i fold how weak is this? No reads on the guy he had raised a few hands but i couldnt decide if he was a bad local at this point. The only feeling i had was that he wasnt making a move he was v betting but i felt there was a small chance he could do it with JJ 1010.
I rarely 3b this early in a tournament this deep. As played I prob play the same but I don't like it.

Hand 2
200-400 ante 25
Bad local makes it 1800 he was making big raises like these but not all that often he was in emp i had position on him. I call with 1010 he has about 25k and i cover.

Flop j84 he bets 4k i just fold again is this very weak?
Pretty passive but probably ok.

Day 2

Hand 3
600-1200
Scandi ep raises to 2.6k btn calls, i call in sb with KQ and bb calls.

Flop k68 rainbow he bets 5k , btn calls and i call bb folds.

Turn 8 k he shoves for 28k which is close to what the pot is and btn folds.

What do we do here? No history as new to table but he looked like he could play. I folded once again.
Fold pre.

Hand 4

1500-3000
Israeli old guy makes it 6.1k with 75k behind i call with 99 i cover him about 90k.

Flop 10 10 7 he bets 10k on flop

Turn 8 he bets 20k i fold.
3b/get it in pre with 25bbs effective.
I had played a lot with him early in the tournament he was a typical limper fish and most of his stack had been got early making stubborn calls against a swede who loved to donate chips bluffing him.

.

[tipp86]

@ The champ.

I had 3 bet that swede prior to that with suited connectors which he 4 bet. I understand what your saying about not 3 betting at this level so much and im not huge in getting in to 3/4/5 bet wars early in these games but i still will be throwing out the odd 3 bet with value & bluff hands.

[boba_fett3099]

This is fair, but the turn is effectively a blank.

A bad card for him to double barrell as a bluff you could say..

[AndyFatBastard]

A bad card for him to double barrell as a bluff you could say..

Nope. I'd expect villian to fire this turn with all his draws having c/red flop. Interestingly, he might not fire it if he had a set on the flop. He's now boated up and wants you to hit your straight/flush on the river. Making this even more of a call.

[boba_fett3099]

Nope. I'd expect villian to fire this turn with all his draws having c/red flop. Interestingly, he might not fire it if he had a set on the flop. He's now boated up and wants you to hit your straight/flush on the river. Making this even more of a call.

He didn't c/r flop he has position on us. You don't think he ever takes a free card here with his draws? What do you do if a 2h comes on the river and he shoves for a PSB?

[Maloney]

Hand 1. Have you a plan on the flop when you called like are you folding to all turn barrels? Considering this one the better turn cards in the deck..

Hand 2. Have u seen any his hands @ showdown when he has over 4xd it? Like i want to fold, but in game i might call with reads...

Hand 3. I cant make out who shoves? I prob fold pre, but think calling not huge mistake. Think i just fold on turn 3way.

Hand 4. Where is he opening from? were are u?
Like your 25bb eff I dont mind 3bet calling vs some ppl depends position, Image, ect

[tipp86]

Hand 1. Have you a plan on the flop when you called like are you folding to all turn barrels? Considering this one the better turn cards in the deck..

Not a major plan i mean i feel bad players wont barrel to many bluffs here. He will check back a lot of FDs & hands he " wanted to see where he stood". I also had a gut feeling this guy had fish potential about him but nothing whatsoever to go on just he was local.

Hand 2. Have u seen any his hands @ showdown when he has over 4xd it? Like i want to fold, but in game i might call with reads...

AK but the few hands he raised he raised and bet big just a player who is not very good at pot control and bet sizing. I mean i will call this spot a lot it was more the gut feeling that lead me to fold so no theory behind it for me.

Hand 3. I cant make out who shoves? I prob fold pre, but think calling not huge mistake. Think i just fold on turn 3way.

Original raiser shoves

Hand 4. Where is he opening from? were are u?
Like your 25bb eff I dont mind 3bet calling vs some ppl depends position, Image, ect

MP ish some details are blank enough with me i took some notes on phone but i played a hell of a lot of hands so memory has to try and make out as best as i can about exact stuff.

,

[Caf]

1) I prob flat pre, but would play the same as you have otherwise.

2) Flatting the flop and re-evaluating the turn. Villain should be cbetting 100% of his opening range on this flop.

3) Folding pf but calling the turn shove as played.

4) Folding pf because he's a limpy fish and is now practically min opening, alarm bells would be going off in my head here. As played, folding the flop.

[tipp86]

1) I prob flat pre, but would play the same as you have otherwise.

2) Flatting the flop and re-evaluating the turn. Villain should be cbetting 100% of his opening range on this flop.

3) Folding pf but calling the turn shove as played.

4) Folding pf because he's a limpy fish and is now practically min opening, alarm bells would be going off in my head here. As played, folding the flop.
He was just copying the standard raise imo he probably adjusted that he could not limp at this stage of the tournament. The question you wonder is does he fold the mediocre hands he used to limp with or still raise with them.

.

[Winning!]

Obviously live tells will have significantly weighted your decisions, so it would be foolish of me to simply state your play is 'wrong' or 'weak' in any given scenario. This is just how I would play each hand in a vacuum.

Hand 1: Call again on the turn. There should really only be two hands in his cold-calling range we lose to, and we can't put him squarely on those hands just because he raised us. If we want to fold the turn we should have seriously have considered folding on the flop, because clearly if we were ahead then we are still ahead now. Calling to re-evaluate has no merit, as there are no cards other than a Q that you will make our hand feel stronger, and very little chance villain will give up having shown so much strength with this line.


Hand 2: Call this bet in position and see what he does on the turn. Too much chance our hand is good to just fold to the cbet.


Hand 3: 3bet/f ~7k pre (assuming btn isn't short in which case we can call if he shoves). KQ is generally difficult to play OOP without the initiative but we display a lot of strength 3betting from this position so that makes it a nice spot to squeeze.

As played, c/r on the flop and call a shove. There is far too high a chance either raiser or btn will improve to a better hand on the turn if we simply call. Call the turn shove as played.


Hand 4: Given the read on him being a stubborn fish probably just call. The 8 is a good card for our hand and even if we don't improve villain will likely check most of his range on the river worried we have a very strong hand. If he shoves a brick we might have to pay off.

[AndyFatBastard]

He didn't c/r flop he has position on us. You don't think he ever takes a free card here with his draws? What do you do if a 2h comes on the river and he shoves for a PSB?

I doubt he takes a free card with his draws if he's any good... People do all kinds of weird shit, but there's no point discussing it on a theory forum if it makes no sense.

I guess it's a fold in that particular scenario. I just think we get to showdown (and with the best hand) quite a lot here. There's a huge amount of permutations to take into account, but a lot of the time our hand is good. There's also opportunities to turn our hand into a bluff. Let's say villian makes a straight on the river. Often bad live players will bet small and fold to a shove on paired, flushing boards with mediocre hands. These options shouldn't be ignored.

[colquhom]

Ok im just going to post a few weird spots from emops some tougher than others.

Day 1

Hand 1
25-50 level
Scandi opens to 150 in ep i raise him to 500 with QQ in cu and bulgarian guy calls button and scandi folds.I had 3 bet the scandi a few hands earlier. We are both playing around 20k.

Flop 7c 8c 4d I bet 750 and he makes it 2500 i flat.

Turn 4h i check he bets 3.5k and i fold how weak is this? No reads on the guy he had raised a few hands but i couldnt decide if he was a bad local at this point. The only feeling i had was that he wasnt making a move he was v betting but i felt there was a small chance he could do it with JJ 1010.


Hand 2
200-400 ante 25
Bad local makes it 1800 he was making big raises like these but not all that often he was in emp i had position on him. I call with 1010 he has about 25k and i cover.

Flop j84 he bets 4k i just fold again is this very weak?


Day 2

Hand 3
600-1200
Scandi ep raises to 2.6k btn calls, i call in sb with KQ and bb calls.

Flop k68 rainbow he bets 5k , btn calls and i call bb folds.

Turn 8 k he shoves for 28k which is close to what the pot is and btn folds.

What do we do here? No history as new to table but he looked like he could play. I folded once again.


Hand 4

1500-3000
Israeli old guy makes it 6.1k with 75k behind i call with 99 i cover him about 90k.

Flop 10 10 7 he bets 10k on flop

Turn 8 he bets 20k i fold.

I had played a lot with him early in the tournament he was a typical limper fish and most of his stack had been got early making stubborn calls against a swede who loved to donate chips bluffing him.

1) prob fold flop, dont mind pre, given we called flop id prob call turn given his sizing
2) fold pre, gay prob fold turn
3) id call the flop
4) where does he open from? You can prob jam pre or something if its in late position right? I dont play many tournaments though. Gay again, id prob call turn because i dunno how thin he'll be value betting that turn