10NL QQ IP on K high board facing donk bet in 4bet bet

[PinkFart]

So quick range question here. I'm running at 19/15 and villian is 22/18 with a PF 3bet of 17% over 80 hands. Has seen me open/fold to his 3 bets twice before I think. What's hbis range here for calling t he 4bet and donking the flop? Can we really consider AK as would this not be a pretty obv. shove for him being a TAG player and all? Lower PP's and some random highish aces you is my guess. Just maybe some random suited broadway connectors but can't see many of these in his range for calling a 4bet OOP.


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($10.71)
UTG ($4.52)
MP ($28.94)
Hero (Button) ($10.10)
SB ($10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, Q
2 folds, Hero bets $0.30, 1 fold, BB raises to $0.95, Hero raises to $2.45, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.95) 10, K, 8 (2 players)
BB bets $2.50, Hero?

[Jinky]

Fkin hate when people flat 4 bets and shit like this happens.

Anyway, I would discount AK here. People often flat 4 bets with stuff like KQs and 99-JJ aswell, even OOP and even though it is a terrible, terrible play.

On the flop our only decision is whether to call or fold (shoving is obv terrible.) I think this spot is a fold. People pretty much never bluff in 4 bet pots. If you call the flop you can't fold the turn, and with the stacks the size they are he should not be trying to bluff you off a hand.

In conclusion, he's not bluffing and he's not value betting worse so fold.

[AndyFatBastard]

You do see a lot of players at lower levels playing AK this way, and you're right about it being bad. You'll also see JJ and QQ sometimes too. A lot of players are reluctant to get them all in pre with those hands "just in case he has AA". Although it seems to me that this kind of player is becoming less common these days, it would still be a mistake to leave AK out of his range. If he does have AK then lol at his donk bet, he's certainly giving you the opportunity to fold QQ here, isn't he? You will also find that players who are flat calling 4bets with AK OOP are starting to realise how much of a cunt it is to play like that, which I guess would explain the donk bet.

I guess if you had an idea of what he donks with in general you might have an idea of what he's doing here. I'd put his range at AA and AK for value, and then QQ, JJ and maybe 99 turned into a bluff. Maybe one or two combos of AJ or AQ as semibluffs. This would make it a fold, I guess. Not 100% sure.

One of the hardest things to get used to when playing the micro stakes is all the variants of bad play that you see. I remember a great discussion we had on the old place about how a fish's range is perfectly balanced, which is what makes him just as hard to play against as a good reg in many situations. From the threads you've posted so far, you seem to have got the idea.

Anyway, I would probably fold, take a note on the player and look for similar behaviour in the future. You can find plenty of opportunities to exploit the shit out of him if you can figure out exactly what he's flat-calling 4bets with, especially if he continues to 3bet so much over a bigger sample. As far as this hand goes, if you call here you have to accept you're never folding on any other street, because raising is turning your hand into a bluff, and you want him to continue firing with his bluffs. It also looks like a really strong line and he may hesitate to fire again with AK or even AA.

I'll stop rambling now.

[Mellor]

Anyway, I would discount AK here. People often flat 4 bets with stuff like KQs and 99-JJ aswell, even OOP and even though it is a terrible, terrible play.

How can you discount AK here?
The villain, definitely 3 bets AK verses a button raise. He also prob flats the 4bet.
AK is a huge part of his range imo

[Tar.Aldarion]

he could have loads of shit and deffo could have ak. How often does he cbet etc

[ianmc38]

Don't think I'm folding tbh, but i rarely fold...

[Moneymaker]

I think he definitely can have AK. I probably sigh and fold and make a note of the hand.

He's leading into us on a board where a lot of our hands will be strong given we've 4bet. AK/KK/AA along with some complete bluffs obv.

[Closed_Account]

Yeah I wouldnt fold either. Same reasoning as always "Fook him the fooking cnut" thats why.

[Tar.Aldarion]

I too subscribe to the 'what a wanker' school of poker.