QQ in SB

[SSP]

Hand from the Fitz double-chance tourney last night.

Blinds 75/150. I'm SB with 2.7k. Villain (MP3) is a regular that I have played against before, he has a very wide range. He has about 3.5k and still has his double-chance chip.

UTG & MP3 limp in. I have QsQc and make it 600 to go. BB & UTG fold. MP3 calls.

Flop 7s, Jc, 8d

I bet 600, MP3 calls.

Turn 5c

How should I proceed here and how was my bet size on flop?

[Moneymaker]

I'd make it bigger pre-flop, around 800 or so.

As you've played, i'd be 700-900 on the flop.

Turn is a clear shove. Loads of worse hands will call here. Ul if he flopped a monster, but AJ/KJ/QJ/JT call off here all day long with your average Fitz donk.

[bustamoves]

flop betsize looks about right to me.

u have 1650 left and and there is c. 2.5k in there on this turn so it seems a very easy shove as you are still well ahead of his range and u will get called by worse an very high percentage of the time, super standard i would say.

wp.

[ianmc38]

Do you know this thread?

Hand is played fine based on stack sizes assuming you shoved turn. I may bet a little more on flop, but i think the difference is negligible.

[SSP]

Yeah I shoved turn, he has 66, hits a 4 on the river for the straight. I know its a bad beat but just wondering could I ever justify shoving on the flop there.

[Emmet]

Don't shove the flop, you want guys to call with shit like 66.

Shallower stacks, you can bet pre and shove flop, but you don't want him to fold hands that you have absolutely crushed.

[ianmc38]

Yeah I shoved turn, he has 66, hits a 4 on the river for the straight. I know its a bad beat but just wondering could I ever justify shoving on the flop there.

When someone has a hand that has very few outs against you, you want them to call. The majority of the time they're going to be making a play that will lose them money in the long term, ie -EV.

You shouldn't worry about putting your chips in ahead or wondering what might have been. Just worry about maximizing your EV in every situation and getting idiots to commit alot of chips with worse hands and you'll do just fine.

GL.

[Carl_Morrissey]

Had you got your DC Chip? Was there antes?

[bustamoves]

Had you got your DC Chip? Was there antes?

almost def no antes at that stage carl. secondly i cant imagine how having or not having ones DC chip left could possibly alter such a clear cut case? what lines are you thinking along?

[ViperEyeIRL]

Shove pre. You have 18bb oop and with two limpers I guess you would shove pre any pair (you are not deep enough to set mine) and other hands like AK/AQ/AJ/AT, maybe even hands like 89s/9Ts, etc., so if you shove those hands you should also shove your monster hands like QQ/KK/AA not to be exploited and to underrep you hand.

As played shove flop.

[Carl_Morrissey]

almost def no antes at that stage carl. secondly i cant imagine how having or not having ones DC chip left could possibly alter such a clear cut case? what lines are you thinking along?

The antes I was just making sure I had all the info and for some reason I had it in my head the Fitz antes kick in after 100-200. Not having a DC chip alters the way villains will play certain holding against you, especially live, generally getting it in lighter if you do have one. I'm not saying he should fold his hand, I was thinking shipping pre if antes were involved.

Edit: I think I'd ship pre even without antes tbh.

[Closed_Account]

Much love for how this young Renaissaince man played the hand. Ah yeah call the old flop with 66 and snap the turn. Applause.

[cardshark202]

Shipping pre is alright, but making it say 750 pre is ok too, I would be betting maybe half pot on flop and sticking the rest in on the turn. once you get to this flop it doesn't really matter too much what you do as long as you get all your chips in.

[bustamoves]

Much love for how this young Renaissaince man played the hand. Ah yeah call the old flop with 66 and snap the turn. Applause.

please write a novel. ur way with words is just fucking hilarious. i've read those bits in various magazines that try to be funny about poker life and stuff but your slant on things never fails to crack me up. pure gold.

[Semibluff]

derailament . . .

you still have a blog??

one of the poker sites should give you a blog - would be very enjoyabel reading. Once you promised 1 in 2 stories is about being a sicko

[bustamoves]

Shove pre. You have 18bb oop and with two limpers I guess you would shove pre any pair (you are not deep enough to set mine) and other hands like AK/AQ/AJ/AT, maybe even hands like 89s/9Ts, etc., so if you shove those hands you should also shove your monster hands like QQ/KK/AA not to be exploited and to underrep you hand.

As played shove flop.

are we seriously advocating a shove pre with QQ at this relatively early stage of the tournament. some players havent got the DC chips yet and although there is some increased propensity to gamble we are still highly likely to get folds preflop and this imo would be a disaster with such strong a holding as QQ

[ViperEyeIRL]

are we seriously advocating a shove pre with QQ at this relatively early stage of the tournament. some players havent got the DC chips yet and although there is some increased propensity to gamble we are still highly likely to get folds preflop and this imo would be a disaster with such strong a holding as QQ

We are early in the tourney but stacks are really shallow and stack sizes is all it matter - I don't know much about the structure of this tourney, but with only 18bb effective stacks and multiple limpers before us I'd say we are in push/fold mode with the entire range of hands we are willing to play (AA, 79s, or whichever hand we get in the pot with). We can't open 3x or 4x AA there and shove 88 for example - that would be very exploitable. Then much depends on Villains, if they are really bad they probably won't pay attention and just flat "to see the flop", so we can probably play the hands differently, but with these stacks usually that's not really the best play imo.
If we push and they fold we pick up 525 chips that is about 20% of our stack anyway. If they call we stack them off most of the times.

[bustamoves]

We are early in the tourney but stacks are really shallow and stack sizes is all it matter - I don't know much about the structure of this tourney, but with only 18bb effective stacks and multiple limpers before us I'd say we are in push/fold mode with the entire range of hands we are willing to play (AA, 79s, or whichever hand we get in the pot with). We can't open 3x or 4x AA there and shove 88 for example - that would be very exploitable. Then much depends on Villains, if they are really bad they probably won't pay attention and just flat "to see the flop", so we can probably play the hands differently, but with these stacks usually that's not really the best play imo.
If we push and they fold we pick up 525 chips that is about 20% of our stack anyway. If they call we stack them off most of the times.

well i guess i wouldnt be near as worried about my play/patterns being exploited in a game like this and secondly i would be very surprised if we win more long term by pushing here (in these low buyin live tournies) than makng a standard raise pre.

yes we win 525 chips and adding c.20% to our stack risk free alot of the time and sometimes we get called being a huge fav but i would much prefer the better chance at adding 100% or more to my stack by going the standard raise pre route.

I dont know the math but i am assuming raising the very top of our range in games like these and with similar stack sizes is more +EV, no?

[ViperEyeIRL]

well i guess i wouldnt be near as worried about my play/patterns being exploited in a game like this and secondly i would be very surprised if we win more long term by pushing here (in these low buyin live tournies) than makng a standard raise pre.

yes we win 525 chips and adding c.20% to our stack risk free alot of the time and sometimes we get called being a huge fav but i would much prefer the better chance at adding 100% or more to my stack by going the standard raise pre route.

I dont know the math but i am assuming raising the very top of our range in games like these and with similar stack sizes is more +EV, no?

The problem is that sometimes we will need to check/fold post flop (ie. ugly flop vs 2 opponents for example) and we would be left with 14b. Other times we get outflopped and loose. Other times we get them in on a JTx flop and hands like 99/88 that would have called a shove preflop would fold and we loose value. I am not really concerned about being oop tbh as with stacks so shallow position is not that important anymore, I just think we don't necessarily get max value by making a std raise and see a flop. Also, because it is a double chance tourney, I believe our shove would get called lighter.

[Mellor]

600 is fine imo, I'd that's my sizing
but I can also see the merit in making it 800 to leave a pot sized flop shove,

please write a novel. ur way with words is just fucking hilarious. i've read those bits in various magazines that try to be funny about poker life and stuff but your slant on things never fails to crack me up. pure gold.

Ah we've been tellign Sammy that for ages

[SSP]

Thanks for the replies lads. There were no antes and I had already cashed in my double-chance chip after an earlier bad bead (wasn't my night obvs)

[pgodkin]

Hand from the Fitz double-chance tourney last night.

Blinds 75/150. I'm SB with 2.7k. Villain (MP3) is a regular that I have played against before, he has a very wide range. He has about 3.5k and still has his double-chance chip.

UTG & MP3 limp in. I have QsQc and make it 600 to go. BB & UTG fold. MP3 calls.

Flop 7s, Jc, 8d

I bet 600, MP3 calls.

Turn 5c

How should I proceed here and how was my bet size on flop?

I make it like 775-825 and ship the flop Easy game, im not folding this best board we can get with out having a Queen on it! Can look bluffy but when he looks at the point may feel commited to call with 9's 10's even a hand like J10/QJ/KJ i dont think is folding that flop

[pgodkin]

Just read through the reply's here

Don't shove the flop, you want guys to call with shit like 66.

Shallower stacks, you can bet pre and shove flop, but you don't want him to fold hands that you have absolutely crushed.

Emmet, Shoving flop in this game would be a fairly soild move, as villians in that game can easliy put u on AQ/AK (Me they call if expecting to see K10-KQ alot), I played this game a lot although not in a while and pushing there Pre/flop will def get called enough to be profitable

NOTE: If he is reg he call's flop expecting to see AK, i'd tilt myself if he folds 66's on that board to me

Shove pre. You have 18bb oop and with two limpers I guess you would shove pre any pair (you are not deep enough to set mine) and other hands like AK/AQ/AJ/AT, maybe even hands like 89s/9Ts, etc., so if you shove those hands you should also shove your monster hands like QQ/KK/AA not to be exploited and to underrep you hand.

As played shove flop.

I think this is the best advice in the thread

well i guess i wouldnt be near as worried about my play/patterns being exploited in a game like this and secondly i would be very surprised if we win more long term by pushing here (in these low buyin live tournies) than makng a standard raise pre.
yes we win 525 chips and adding c.20% to our stack risk free alot of the time and sometimes we get called being a huge fav but i would much prefer the better chance at adding 100% or more to my stack by going the standard raise pre route.

I dont know the math but i am assuming raising the very top of our range in games like these and with similar stack sizes is more +EV, no?

I wouldnt be to sure of the above although doesnt have a high standard that people would be use to, the live game is getting tougher as people learn more, I've been amased sometimes how quickly some people's play has improved

[peterswellman]

Thanks for the replies lads. There were no antes and I had already cashed in my double-chance chip after an earlier bad bead (wasn't my night obvs)

Can you take the double chance chips from the start, because if you can that tis what you should be doing always. This gamble with 4k and play nitty with the other is the biggest bollix strategy i've seen in casino's around the country. You want as many chips as you possibly can on the table because let's assume you play better and want to win the maximum when you're going to get the entire stack in.