sit n go hand

[loungs]

Full Tilt Poker Game #27410548523: $6 + $0.50 Sit & Go (Turbo) (213035237), Table 1 - 40/80 - No Limit Hold'em - 07:24:54 ET - 2011/01/19
Seat 1: hero (1,275)
Seat 2: DaddyO049 (2,190)
Seat 4: steffa111 (1,602)
Seat 5: Pussik (2,240)
Seat 6: Frenk360 (1,693)
Pussik posts the small blind of 40
Frenk360 posts the big blind of 80
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero [7d 7c]
barrypower has 15 seconds left to act
barrypower raises to 280

just wondering what should i do if somebody shoves on me.is there any way i can fold here after committing 20% of my stack or is it an instant call.have no reads on the other players and don't play on ft much so don't know if any of them are regs

[ArmaniJeans]

Its not the question you asked, but your initial raise is too big.
240 should be the max, and 200 (pot) would be fine.

[Emmet]

Choose one of these options, and change them depending on the table

Bet/Call
Shove
Fold

[gorrrr72]

Don't fold to a shove, In fact it's easier to call a shove than be flat called.

Raise less (200) so you can fold if 2 players shove before action comes back to you.

[Wombatman]

I usually fold pre in this spot.

[ArmaniJeans]

I usually fold pre in this spot.

Serious? you can never do this 5 handed in a SNG with such a strong hand. Shoving pre (our M is <11) would be better than folding if you feel you are getting into trouble with medium pocket pairs in this spot.

[Angry-Ball]

its an open shove or fold
anything else is just bleeding chips

i personally fold here utg,
if you do shove no one is going to call here with anything less than AK or 99+ and you will be in bad shape.

if you do open to 3x and have to fold due to action after you raised you will have 1k in chips left, then the blinds go through you will have 880 left and now the blinds move up to 50/100 you have less than 9bb's and are under serious pressure.


sitn'gos are about conserving chips in the early part of the game so that you have a decent stack for the push/fold part of the game.

[Keane]

Any sort of raise/fold here is demented IMO.

As Emmet said, the only valid options are:

Bet/Call
Shove
Fold

[Wombatman]

Serious? you can never do this 5 handed in a SNG with such a strong hand. Shoving pre (our M is <11) would be better than folding if you feel you are getting into trouble with medium pocket pairs in this spot.

When you shove and get called you are almost never ahead often dominated. Blinds are not worth the risk yet.
When you raise and get called you have have what looks like bottom pair unless you set up. Win a small pot or stack off most of the time.

[Megatron]

I would fold to a shove in your spot but if I had of being playing the hand myself I would probably have shoved and hopefully be happy with the blinds.

[Bubbleking]

fold pre

[Keane]

I think Wombatman has it spot on here.

The more I think about it the more I think it's a fold.

[ArmaniJeans]

Honestly think ye are mentalists if seriously advocating an openfold of 77 5handed in a Turbo SNG.

[Keane]

Honestly think ye are mentalists if seriously advocating an openfold of 77 5handed in a Turbo SNG.

Thought it was 6-handed.

The fewer the players the more +EV the shove obv.

When do you start to think about folding? 55/44?

[ArmaniJeans]

I'm probably openfolding 22-44 unless theres 2+ multi-tabling regs amongst the 4 opponents (I don't know how easy it is to check this on FT, its straighforward enough on Stars) in which case I'm again raising to 200.

I'm probably also in a minority here in thinking that if we raise, get called and have to give up on the flop, and the blinds go through us, that the 955 we are left with isn't a disaster. I'd consider its still a very good pushbot stack which gets through quite lightly.

[gorrrr72]

just wondering what should i do if somebody shoves on me.is there any way i can fold here after committing 20% of my stack or is it an instant call.have no reads on the other players and don't play on ft much so don't know if any of them are regs

This was the original question.

The merits of open folding pre, shoving etc wasn't.

[Wombatman]

This was the original question.

The merits of open folding pre, shoving etc wasn't.

If a friend comes to you saying they want to kill themselves and asks should they use a gun or a noose…….

A bit early for shoving -> ICM Nash Calculator Results

[gorrrr72]

If a friend comes to you saying they want to kill themselves and asks should they use a gun or a noose…….

A bit early for shoving -> ICM Nash Calculator Results

I just don't think there were enough answers/explanations to the OP's question.

I'm not saying don't discuss how to play a sng optimally. I actually think you can mix it up even in a sng depending on what you believe your image to be and the skill of your opponents.
If you are multitabling 5 or more you probably have to play it purely mathematically as it's hard to get a feel for a table.

[Mellor]

Its not the question you asked, but your initial raise is too big.
240 should be the max, and 200 (pot) would be fine.

Pot is 280 on 200

That the open is huge, and that 200 is fine. Just wanted to clarify what a pot bet was.



WTF at open folding 77 btw, I make a standard raise and see from there

[ArmaniJeans]

Pot is 280 on 200

That the open is huge, and that 200 is fine. Just wanted to clarify what a pot bet was.

I get confused by the 'Pot' terminology, I think different people take it to mean different things. If the blinds are 75/150 my standard open would be 375 and I'd consider myself to have Open Potted, seems to be the standard terminology on 2+2 STT forum as well. Though if you said 'Open Pot' in a Dublin tourney you'd be putting in 525 I think?

@ OP, if someone pushes over your 280 open then you are getting 1.7/1 so a fold is correct if you only put him on 99+, AQs+, AKo sort of range. If you can extend the pushers range to include various other overs, + anything you crush like 55/66 then it becomes a call.

Its worth downloading something like pokerstove and changing the opponents pushing range to see how your %win goes up and down as you add/subtract hands.

[Mellor]

I get confused by the 'Pot' terminology, I think different people take it to mean different things. If the blinds are 75/150 my standard open would be 375 and I'd consider myself to have Open Potted, seems to be the standard terminology on 2+2 STT forum as well. Though if you said 'Open Pot' in a Dublin tourney you'd be putting in 525 I think?

"Dublin" pot is correct. If other are using it in an other way they are wrong. Look at the odds, a pot-sized open bet gives the next person 2/1, a pot sized raise give the sames odds. (525 in example above)

That's how its applied in PLO games everywhere (the most common use for it i'd say).

[Gowl]

5 handed as the short stack, I'm pretty sure this a shove here. Raising less than all in only invites hands like AJ to shove on you thinking you have fold equity.

Also, it should be noted, I think it's +EV to shove here, but -EV to bet-call. You have to have such a strong hand to call an all-in in these spots.

Shoving is best, folding is second best. Raise-calling is prob third best followed by raise-folding.

[Gowl]

If a friend comes to you saying they want to kill themselves and asks should they use a gun or a noose…….

A bit early for shoving -> ICM Nash Calculator Results

it says we can push with the top 10.4% of our range. Is 77 not included in that?
I see the hands are listed next to the range, but for the cut off push, it is 15.4% and includes only JJ+, while for the SB to call a button push, it is 4.2% which includes 99+, just wondering if it's possibly a bug and that we can in fact push with 77 (also, the last stat - BB calling SB's push - states that we can call with the top 10% of our range, and 77 is just inside that range).
Or maybe the hand ranges are determined more specifically so to exclude certain hands in certain situations (ie some hands are better to call with than raise with etc.)

[Mellor]

it says we can push with the top 10.4% of our range. Is 77 not included in that?
I see the hands are listed next to the range, but for the cut off push, it is 15.4% and includes only JJ+, while for the SB to call a button push, it is 4.2% which includes 99+, just wondering if it's possibly a bug and that we can in fact push with 77 (also, the last stat - BB calling SB's push - states that we can call with the top 10% of our range, and 77 is just inside that range).
Or maybe the hand ranges are determined more specifically so to exclude certain hands in certain situations (ie some hands are better to call with than raise with etc.)

The problem is that you are assuming that the 10% or any other % listed is the top 10%. Which it isn't.

The reason the pairs get a strong weight when calling is due to the hands like A5s that are +EV when open pushing, 66+ has big equity here. So its a calling hand.

But;
But not suited hands that are calling are the likes of AT+, KQ, here pairs a flipping, so they have less equity when open pushing.


I should point out for those that don't know what Nash's equilibrium is, the above link calculates those ranges assuming that everyone is playing optimally. Nash's has its own flaws, and a player actually playing sub optimal, can have an effect on the calling ranges (more so that the shove ranges)