Folding aces??

[aodea]

Ok so in general whhen playing double or nothings should i be folding here against a player who has me covered because its a bubble. with payouts being so flat surely the idea of winning a load of chips is massively curtailed. In the example below im 4th in chips with 6 left. I dont want to end up all in do i even with aces against a player who has me covered. This may be wrong?



Table '353906190 1' 10-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: MoncheZsolti (3415 in chips)
Seat 2: FEIO-690 (1930 in chips)
Seat 5: Tumen072 (3390 in chips)
Seat 7: Hero (2200 in chips)
Seat 8: BaumGT (1695 in chips)
Seat 9: manol55 (2370 in chips)
MoncheZsolti: posts the ante 25
FEIO-690: posts the ante 25
Tumen072: posts the ante 25
Hero: posts the ante 25
BaumGT: posts the ante 25
manol55: posts the ante 25
BaumGT: posts small blind 125
manol55: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ah Ad]
MoncheZsolti: raises 500 to 750
FEIO-690: folds
Tumen072: folds
Hero: raises 1425 to 2175 and is all-in
BaumGT: folds
manol55: folds
MoncheZsolti: calls 1425
*** FLOP *** [6c 2s 4c]
*** TURN *** [6c 2s 4c] [9c]
*** RIVER *** [6c 2s 4c 9c] [5c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MoncheZsolti: shows [Ks Ac] (a flush, Ace high)
Hero: shows [Ah Ad] (a pair of Aces)
MoncheZsolti collected 4875 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4875 | Rake 0
Board [6c 2s 4c 9c 5c]
Seat 1: MoncheZsolti showed [Ks Ac] and won (4875) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 2: FEIO-690 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Tumen072 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Hero (button) showed [Ah Ad] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 8: BaumGT (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: manol55 (big blind) folded before Flop

[gorrrr72]

There are cases for folding aces in a double or nothing but this is never one of them. You would have to have more chips and someone running on fumes to fold here.

[aodea]

There are cases for folding aces in a double or nothing but this is never one of them. You would have to have more chips and someone running on fumes to fold here.

Yeah i feel im prob to shallow here with the stacks smaller than me not being super short either. I just used this as only example i have of aces on the bubble that i have saved.

[Charlie Harper]

I dont want to end up all in do i even with aces .
thats exactly were u want to end up, u cant fold aces there

[ianmc38]

I think you're too shallow too fold as the small stacks aren't far behind you.

[aodea]

Not so much with regards to this hand, guess im looking to find out if there is a situation were we fold aces. if i have 4k and chip leader as me covered but two stacks of say 700 and 800. Is a fold ok then?

[cardshark202]

Why do you want to find a situation where you can fold aces? I prefer to find situations that involve folding as little as possible.

[Gowl]

first off, there is no one short enough here to justify folding aces. If you fold, the result of the tourney is still very much up in the air, it's not like you're 90% to cash if you fold the hand.

Secondly, what you're missing out on (which is very important) is that you're not calling an all in, you're pushing. People will assume that he has to call your all-in. Obviously in a standard tournament, it's right to call in his spot with ATC, but specifically in these DONs, I'm pretty sure he absolutely has to (read: it is mathematically correct to) fold anything other than AA and KK. Him making this call is actually one of those sick spots where his tournament equity decreases AND your tournament equity decreases, the equity goes to the other players sitting at the table.

So in short, yes you have to push here. I'd imagine KK is also a push. QQ is interesting, but I'd prob fold (although it may be right to push). AK and <JJ, I fold.

It's actually one of those interesting game theory problems. If he is playing optimally, it may be correct to ship a load of hands (because he can call with so few hands - but then again, if he is playing optimally, he is only supposed to open with those few hands!), but chances are, he is not be playing optimally and is capable of calling with hands like the AK which he did.

[tina]

i never fold here.. sorry you lost..

the only sitution i consider folding aces pre is in a supersatalitte or something like this..

[Gowl]

i never fold here.. sorry you lost..

the only sitution i consider folding aces pre is in a supersatalitte or something like this..

Just in case you weren't aware, this is effectively a super-sat. The top 5 all get equal pay outs, so you are playing to finish in the top 5, not 1st.