2 big tourny hands

[tipp86]

This is from a €550 game in Malta with mainly italian players.


Hand 1

Blinds 100 - 200

We are all playing around 30k except mp3 who has approx 12k.

I have been pretty active on the table open raising a nice bit and i had 3 bet a couple of time even the hand previous i had 3 bet light from the blinds and took it down pre.

Utg opens for 800 ( he is tight old guy ), utg + 1 calls ( dutch guy will play atc pre but is pretty good player), Mp 2 calls ( decent player ) and Mp 3 calls ( fishy ).

I am on the button with AK and i 3 bet to 2800.

Utg folds and the other 3 players call.

Pot 12.3k

Flop Qs Js 9h

3 players check to me what is my move here?

Im mainly interested in pre is it a 3 bet or should i just call ? If its a 3 bet what size 3 bet?

Whats my move on the flop?



Hand 2

Blinds 150 - 300

I am playing 16k. Both players cover.

Utg opens for 1.6k he is a dutch guy and the best player at the table. he opened raise a lot but this was unusual as most of his opens ranged from 2 bbs to 3.5 bbs.

Fish in cut off calls this bet.

Im in the sb with JJ and i 3 bet to 4k, utg shoves and cutoff folds.

I fold !

I am aware 3 bet folding is very bad here and realise i made a mistake. I am just asking what would the best way to have played this hand be.

Im pretty sure i should just have peeled a flop here.

[Angry-Ball]

hand 1
i think is a 3 bet but your 3 bet size was never going to get anyone to fold they are getting 3:1 to call your 3bet

hand 2:
i call here JJ is not that great when faced with this situation, but he might be getting fed up with your 3betting and i doubt that he opened for such a large amt if he was holding better than JJ here,

just coming back to this i think i make it 3500 to go in hand 1
as played its a very draw heavy board going to be hard to get peole off draws here and there is alot off people still in. not to sure what to do here i tend to cbet nearly 100% of the time but i think this is one time that i might check.
pre flop is the problem here and a bigger 3 bet would have less people in the pot now and you might be able to take it down with a solid cbet

[Flushdraw]

Hand 1 : I make it about 4200 pre. As played, i check back and re-evaluate and hope to hit an offsuit 10, because this is a really really really ugly board for 3 players calling a 3bet and unless i hit the nuts, i'm fnished with the hand

Hand 2 : UTG opens more than 5xBB? Would be unlikely he has you beat here. From my experience, this is AK more than any other hand. Happy to take down whats in the middle especially with the caller, and happy to race should he call with his overs. 3bet folding is really bad. I just ship it pre>>>>>>>calling>>>>>>folding>>>>>>>>>>3bet folding

[TommyGunne]

From what I know, a lot of very very good Dutch guys went over to that event. At least 1 guy who plays 50/100 was there, and the rest are very good.

Hand 1: I'd usually not be happy 3betting AK here 150bb deep in a tourney when a pretty tight old guy opens UTG, but there's just too much in the pot now, and we've got good backup if called, so I 3bet. 2800 is pretty bad though. I make it about 3600. Don't think you need to make it more than that though. Flop is obv a check.

Hand 2: You say he's good and you 3b/fold JJ? Seriously, you've answered your own question.

I think Tony's thinking that JJ is always good there is very wrong. You say that he is the best player at the table vs a table of Italians? I think he's quite likely to have a very strong hand here. I just flat preflop and see a flop. That would be better than a shove, which would be better a 3b/call (but not very much better) which would be better than open folding while punching yourself in the face, which would then be better than 3b folding

[tipp86]

pre flop is the problem here and a bigger 3 bet would have less people in the pot now and you might be able to take it down with a solid cbet

Im pretty sure the bigger 3 bet would not have put off any of the guys who called for 2800. This is the part of the game that i found them horrendous at it was like watching a 20 freezeout.

There 3 bet sizing was particularly bad usually about 4-5 times the open raise.

Hand 1 : I make it about 4200 pre. As played, i check back and re-evaluate and hope to hit an offsuit 10, because this is a really really really ugly board for 3 players calling a 3bet and unless i hit the nuts, i'm fnished with the hand

Hand 2 : UTG opens more than 5xBB? Would be unlikely he has you beat here. From my experience, this is AK more than any other hand. Happy to take down whats in the middle especially with the caller, and happy to race should he call with his overs. 3bet folding is really bad. I just ship it pre>>>>>>>calling>>>>>>folding>>>>>>>>>>3bet folding

I agree with hand 1 maybe a little less pre tho. As for hand 2 i pinned this guy down as a online grinder most likely a 2+2 guy as there is a lot of them living there and he spoke fluent italian. I felt this open raise had to be a big hand as most players at the table would not have noticed the difference in his bet sizing. I think AK is the very bottom of his range.

I also feel that he knew that i was obv not 3 betting light from the sb and that unlike the italians JJ/AK is the bottom of my 3 betting range in this spot.

Hand 2: You say he's good and you 3b/fold JJ? Seriously, you've answered your own question.

I think Tony's thinking that JJ is always good there is very wrong. You say that he is the best player at the table vs a table of Italians? I think he's quite likely to have a very strong hand here. I just flat preflop and see a flop. That would be better than a shove, which would be better a 3b/call (but not very much better) which would be better than open folding while punching yourself in the face, which would then be better than 3b folding

Ya i do realise how bad it was but maybe i should say this hand occured not long after i lost a near 40k hand where i was 2 outered all in pre so im blaming that for not having a clear head with regards the hand. As ive said above i agree with you saying JJ is not allways good.




With regards the first hand how do we play AA KK on that board with the 4 callers? Lets take into account a guy stacking off for 30k with the bb 200 with AQ on a QJ9 flop.

[ianmc38]

Hand 1, make it alot bigger preflop, 2800 is awful (IMO). You should be happy to take down the blinds.
as played obv check back. Bluffing would be awful.

Hand 2 I'd flat preflop, don't like 3betting in the first place and obviously 3bet folding is absolute misery.

[Moneymaker]

1. I'd make it 4000-4200, but I don't mind a call either. Give up now as played.

2. You pretty much answered this yourself. I ship pre. I don't like calling as we're OOP and gonna be in a ton of bad spots on almost any flop without a Jack on it.

[Line Us]

1. My standard line would be to flat here pre when 3 players have called and we're so deep. If you do 3bet bet bigger as others have said. Check back flop always.

2. I'd rather open fold than 3bet fold. I'd call pre always unless I had some crazy image/history that I could 3bet and call it off.

[AndyFatBastard]

1. If you genuinely thought no-one's gonna fold to even a 4k raise, then flat call pre.

2. I'm with TG here. I'd say he has a very big hand and he's tired of getting 4 callers every time he opens from EP.