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Originally posted by phantom_lord View Posti definitely think you should be raising there a decent % of the time."In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)
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betting the turn to get value from FDs that called the flop
Some SDs call one more bet, as does 88 and TT which I should be extracting from.
There is a lot of cards on the river that hurt my hand, so I am also happy to fold out random 9x and 7x cards that I will struggle to fold against if they hit two pair.
I dont think the Q hits a huge part of his range, AhQh, KQo+ and QJo+.
Please criticise line of thought
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Originally posted by phantom_lord View Postbecause you're gonna be bluff raising there a bunch so you can't always call with a hand like this.
And your thought process is fine in the second hand, Emmet."In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)
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wtf is wrong with my redline?
Graph and stats for last 20k hands
Im planning on taking poker semi seriously for the summer, so will probably be looking for some coaching / invest more time in theory once my exams are done.
Is there anything immediately sticking out at you that would stop me leaking so much in Non Showdown pots?
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Guest
Its fine emmet nearly everyone loses in them except spew boxes like digiman. -3ptbb is standard enough and about what I run at. Aside from that you could loosen up a lot in MP and CO.
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can someone tell me what one's winrate in the blinds would be if u just folded every hand? I think I'm doing it wrong...Basically is it 1bb every 6 hands which would be 16.66~ / 100 and 8.33/100 for the sb or is it 100bb/100 for the BB and 50bb/100 for the sb?
And what is a normal winrate in the small and big blinds for people?
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Originally posted by colquhom View Postcan someone tell me what one's winrate in the blinds would be if u just folded every hand? I think I'm doing it wrong...Basically is it 1bb every 6 hands which would be 16.66~ / 100 and 8.33/100 for the sb or is it 100bb/100 for the BB and 50bb/100 for the sb?
And what is a normal winrate in the small and big blinds for people?"In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)
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Originally posted by colquhom View PostCheers, ye i know people by and large lose. Do you have any estimate on the average losses?"In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)
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Note on villain : cant help but bluff
Flop and turn were a bit of a let down. But river he lived up to his note
No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($108.93)
Hero (CO) ($237.50)
SB ($100)
MP ($138.33)
UTG ($66.90)
BB ($42.92)
Preflop: Hero is CO with A, K
1 fold, MP bets $3.50, Hero raises $13, 3 folds, MP calls $9.50
Flop: ($27.50) 6, 9, K (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks
Turn: ($27.50) 9 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks
River: ($27.50) K (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $21, MP raises $42, Hero raises $57, MP raises $83.33 (All-In), Hero calls $47.33
Total pot: $278.16
Results:
MP didn't show
Hero had A, K (full house, Kings over nines).
Outcome: Hero won $275.16
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@emmet
first off you have a very decent winrate over those 20k hands so don't hurt your green line trying to improve your red line, but thats old news i suppose. Your vpip from positions is good as well, nice steady increase from utg to button. Your 3b% I would consider low but maybe playing rush this is more standard - i have played a little but not much. One thing I would suggest that may have a positive affect on your red line would be that you try to 3b more in position than from the blinds. The little bit of rush poker I played was at $0.1/0.25 and I found a lot of it was playing really deep - a lot of hands would be 200bbs+. You can 3b a lot more than 3.8% of hands on button in such games(imo). That said your winrate from the button playing the way you are playing is excellent so why fix it when it's not broken!
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Originally posted by emmet02 View Postwtf is wrong with my redline?
Graph and stats for last 20k hands
Im planning on taking poker semi seriously for the summer, so will probably be looking for some coaching / invest more time in theory once my exams are done.
Is there anything immediately sticking out at you that would stop me leaking so much in Non Showdown pots?"Don't overcomplicate a straight forward game with mathematical bullshit and dicussing different lines with your geeky friends" Chris Olaafson
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Originally posted by Line Us View PostJust seen this now, decent winrate, if your gonna change anything make sure and do it slowly as you seem to be doing fine. You can loosen up way more in the co and button and also 3bet more from those also. Looks like you are only 3betting value hands from the co at the moment. Just open every button thats folded to you too at these stakes unless the blinds are somewhat 3bet happy and by that they'd want to be 3betting greater than 8% from the blinds before i'd start opening the button tighter.
The opening every button thing? I really dont know about that, Im playing 50nl at the moment and I swear to god, it seems like every second open from the CO/BTN is 3bet.
Opening tighter is all you can really do as the regs will take a fair bit longer to adjust. Id open quite light against passive nits (which Im assuming Line Us thinks the regs are like at this level) but in reality, they are much more aggro than you'd expect.This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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Originally posted by CaptainPlanet View Postgood advice.
The opening every button thing? I really dont know about that, Im playing 50nl at the moment and I swear to god, it seems like every second open from the CO/BTN is 3bet.
Opening tighter is all you can really do as the regs will take a fair bit longer to adjust. Id open quite light against passive nits (which Im assuming Line Us thinks the regs are like at this level) but in reality, they are much more aggro than you'd expect."Don't overcomplicate a straight forward game with mathematical bullshit and dicussing different lines with your geeky friends" Chris Olaafson
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Interesting situation.
Live 1/1/3 -
UTG goes all in blind for €20.
UTG + 1 laughs and ships it all in for €300
Button looks down and lets out a moan of pain and after much deliberation folds
Hero looks down at AQ sooooooooted in the big blind - have a stack of about 250?
call/fold?
do you feel lucky punk.
edit; my reads are everyone is terrible - its like the twilight zone with the standard being that of the 05-06 eraLast edited by Bubbleking; 23-04-10, 14:25.
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Originally posted by bubbleking View PostInteresting situation.
Live 1/1/3 -
UTG goes all in blind for €20.
UTG + 1 laughs and ships it all in for €300
Button looks down and lets out a moan of pain and after much deliberation folds
Hero looks down at AQ sooooooooted in the big blind - have a stack of about 250?
call/fold?
do you feel lucky punk.
edit; my reads are everyone is terrible - its like the twilight zone with the standard being that of the 05-06 era
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spew or ok? I'm ahead of a lot of draws, and all their Aces that haven't paired.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($11.02)
SB ($12.10)
BB ($18.98)
UTG ($12.46)
Hero (MP) ($51.60)
CO ($26.55)
Preflop: Hero is MP with K, A
UTG bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2.60, 4 folds, UTG calls $1.85
Flop: ($5.55) 3, J, Q (2 players)
UTG bets $9.86 (All-In), Hero calls $9.86
Turn: ($25.27) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($25.27) 10 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $25.27 | Rake: $1.26
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Beyond standard?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($66.15)
BB ($39.11)
UTG ($25.57)
MP ($17.85)
Hero (CO) ($66.90)
Button ($56.30)
Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, 10
UTG calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25, Hero bets $1.20, 1 fold, SB calls $1.10, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.95, 1 fold
Flop: ($4.10) 5, 6, 2 (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $3.30, SB calls $3.30, UTG raises to $24.37 (All-In), Hero folds, 1 fold
Total pot: $14 | Rake: $0.70
Results:
UTG didn't show
Outcome: UTG won $13.30
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how did I do here?
We are both deep
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($12.50)
Button ($86.36)
SB ($27.13)
BB ($83.74)
UTG ($28.39)
Hero (MP) ($63.64)
Preflop: Hero is MP with 8, 7
1 fold, Hero bets $0.80, 1 fold, Button calls $0.80, 2 folds
Flop: ($1.95) Q, 6, J (2 players)
Hero bets $1.60, Button raises to $3.75, Hero calls $2.15
Turn: ($9.45) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $5.25, Hero calls $5.25
River: ($19.95) K (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $14, Hero folds
Total pot: $19.95 | Rake: $0.99
Results:
Button didn't show
Outcome: Button won $18.96
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Originally posted by emmet02 View Posthow did I do here?
We are both deep
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($12.50)
Button ($86.36)
SB ($27.13)
BB ($83.74)
UTG ($28.39)
Hero (MP) ($63.64)
Preflop: Hero is MP with 8, 7
1 fold, Hero bets $0.80, 1 fold, Button calls $0.80, 2 folds
Flop: ($1.95) Q, 6, J (2 players)
Hero bets $1.60, Button raises to $3.75, Hero calls $2.15
Turn: ($9.45) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $5.25, Hero calls $5.25
River: ($19.95) K (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $14, Hero folds
Total pot: $19.95 | Rake: $0.99
Results:
Button didn't show
Outcome: Button won $18.96Foldaramus et foldarabimus
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Found myself agreeing with a lot of this post especially on overvaluing marginal hands after losing a big pot http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...Number=5471087
Also lol at this post from a guy who would be beating 2kNL around a year later.
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I agree that buyin prerequisites do vary by the player. And you're totally right when you say that more is NEVER a problem.
However, about 15 hands into my first go-round at 50NL, I had rebought in for about 25, and I had my stack up to nearly 100. I picked up 66, flop came down JT6... I got it all in vs. two opponents (one had TT and the other had KK and spiked a K on the river). The pot was about 260 bucks... far, far, far larger than anything I'd ever dealt with at 25NL. To have that happen was something I was totally unprepared for.
In short, it really sucked.
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Easy fold here? What about the flop call? Villian as a standard rush reg. I have ~200 hands on him. His fold to 3bet is 60%.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($79.75)
MP ($129.10)
Hero (CO) ($53.30)
Button ($30)
SB ($87.10)
BB ($51.40)
Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, A
1 fold, MP bets $1.75, Hero raises to $5.25, 3 folds, MP calls $3.50
Flop: ($11.25) Q, 9, 5 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $6.25, MP raises to $16.25, Hero calls $10
Turn: ($43.75) 8 (2 players)
MP bets $107.60 (All-In), [color=#666666][i]Hero?"I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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Originally posted by emmet02 View PostI am folding to flop C/R as I am a Rush Nit and dont stack off lightly."I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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What can I do in this situation? When it got to him in the SB, all I could think was "thats a great spot for you to pull the trigger".
He is a competent player, and could be doing it with ATC, but is folding and "nh" the only thing I can do in this situation?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($25.70)
Button ($54.46)
SB ($71.66)
BB ($14.94)
Hero (UTG) ($66.27)
MP ($22.72)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, K
Hero bets $0.80, MP calls $0.80, CO calls $0.80, Button calls $0.80, SB raises to $6, 5 folds
Total pot: $4.25 | Rake: $0
Results:
SB didn't show
Outcome: SB won $4.25
VPIP: 21 PFR: 17 STL: 38 3BT: 4
AGGF: 3.64 CBET: 62 F2CBET: 33 Hands: 453
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Originally posted by emmet02 View PostWhat can I do in this situation? When it got to him in the SB, all I could think was "thats a great spot for you to pull the trigger".
He is a competent player, and could be doing it with ATC, but is folding and "nh" the only thing I can do in this situation?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($25.70)
Button ($54.46)
SB ($71.66)
BB ($14.94)
Hero (UTG) ($66.27)
MP ($22.72)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, K
Hero bets $0.80, MP calls $0.80, CO calls $0.80, Button calls $0.80, SB raises to $6, 5 folds
Total pot: $4.25 | Rake: $0
Results:
SB didn't show
Outcome: SB won $4.25
Also, didnt you post that you play like 17/13? You're prob not opening very wide UTG so in fact with his sizing he's prob losing money coz he needs it to work so often and you're gonna be 4bet/jamming pretty often anyway.
Also he's not bluffing.
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Originally posted by emmet02 View PostIts Rush poker, so he has no idea I am a nit, especially not by position, stats above are the only stats he could possibly have to hand at the time of the 3bet.
Him not knowing this is irrelevant to you making money in the long run. In fact him not knowing this is good for you if he is bluffing.
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ah yes, makes far more sense to me know. Appreciate it.
Also, is this standard?
I have run into sets too many times to count this week, volume can be a bitch sometimes.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($39.49)
MP ($50.44)
CO ($25)
Button ($12.85)
Hero (SB) ($25.26)
BB ($20)
Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, 9
UTG bets $1, 1 fold, CO calls $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.90, 1 fold
Flop: ($3.25) 8, 3, 7 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2.25, CO calls $2.25, Hero raises to $9.80, 1 fold, CO raises to $24 (All-In), Hero calls $14.20
Turn: ($53.50) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($53.50) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $53.50 | Rake: $2.67
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Originally posted by emmet02 View Postah yes, makes far more sense to me know. Appreciate it.
Also, is this standard?
I have run into sets too many times to count this week, volume can be a bitch sometimes.
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($39.49)
MP ($50.44)
CO ($25)
Button ($12.85)
Hero (SB) ($25.26)
BB ($20)
Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, 9
UTG bets $1, 1 fold, CO calls $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.90, 1 fold
Flop: ($3.25) 8, 3, 7 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2.25, CO calls $2.25, Hero raises to $9.80, 1 fold, CO raises to $24 (All-In), Hero calls $14.20
Turn: ($53.50) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($53.50) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $53.50 | Rake: $2.67
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Sweating a friend of mine.
No stats, but villain seems pretty taggy, hasn't got out of line much, but has been a li
10c/20c 6max
Eff. Stacks 103bb
Hero is UTG+1
Dealt to Hero: AsAd
1 fold, Hero raises to 70c, Villain raises to €2.20, 3 folds, Hero raises to €4.80, Villain calls.
Flop: QcJc5h
Hero bets €3
Villain calls
Turn: Td
Check
Check
River: 8s
Hero checks
Villain bets €7.75
Hero folds.
Fine? Think the 4b might be a bit small I guess 4bs are called a lot more at this level. Thoughts on flop bet and turn/river line?Foldaramus et foldarabimus
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Whats my shoving range here. Pot is huge already
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (UTG) ($62.61)
MP ($20.65)
CO ($25.39)
Button ($28.50)
SB ($13.14)
BB ($21.97)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, A
Hero bets $0.90, MP calls $0.90, 1 fold, Button raises to $3.95, SB calls $3.85, BB calls $3.70, Hero clicks Time, strokes his chin and opens General Poker Thread to post query
SPOILER1 fold, MP calls $3.05
Flop: ($16.70) 5, 6, J (4 players)
SB bets $9.19 (All-In), 2 folds, Button calls $9.19
Turn: ($35.08) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($35.08) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $35.08 | Rake: $1.75
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Conor, 4bet is too small. 5.20/5.40 is where it needs to be OOP.
What were the reads on the player, seems to have been cut off as you posted?
I am definitely betting flop. AQ+ is in his range at this level, as well as TT and 99 (not so much).
People love calling c-bets with underpairs in 4bet pots at these stakes. "I put him on AK and there is no A or K on the flop". I think the c-bet is too small for this reason too.
Definitely interesting spot though. I would more than struggle to fold river though.
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Originally posted by emmet02 View PostConor, 4bet is too small. 5.20/5.40 is where it needs to be OOP.
What were the reads on the player, seems to have been cut off as you posted?
I am definitely betting flop. AQ+ is in his range at this level, as well as TT and 99 (not so much).
People love calling c-bets with underpairs in 4bet pots at these stakes. "I put him on AK and there is no A or K on the flop". I think the c-bet is too small for this reason too.
Definitely interesting spot though. I would more than struggle to fold river though.
Otherwise yeah its fine. River fold will be questioned a lot I guess and I think folding is actually prob best but in real time Id prob call.
If he is in anyway a competent hand reader this is never a bluff.
Also, people dont call 4bets very often at that level, its very rare. The 4bet size obviously means he can prob call a bit wider, lots of big aces, broadways and pairs 1010+.This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.
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I know I have put too many hands up in the last few days, but there are just a few that have me thinking more and more now. Especially ones with overbetting / limp reraising.
Basically I am trying to figure out decent ranges vs goofs.
This hand just came up. I think that this might have been a call. Am I nuts?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($9.25)
MP ($18.41)
CO ($26.53)
Button ($25.10)
Hero (SB) ($47.26)
BB ($45.69)
Preflop: Hero is SB with 5, 5
UTG calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button bets $1.35, Hero calls $1.25, BB calls $1.10, UTG raises to $9.25 (All-In), 4 folds
Total pot: $5.65 | Rake: $0
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Originally posted by emmet02 View PostI can read Steve.
Conor asked for comments on the flop bet too.
Preflop is definitely too small. Its postflop where it gets tricky though. Its not like making it 2bb less preflop is a huge leak here. Huge potential leakage in this hand postflop though, and I am in two minds about lots of it.Foldaramus et foldarabimus
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Id be 4betting to 5.10 max but i think 4.80 is ok.
Flop cbet is way too small, id be betting 5.90 and jamming pretty much every turn.
The 55 hand is a definite fold, especially at Rush, anytime i see a limp re-raise utg its always the goods.Originally posted by ArmaniJeansI like this heat - some proper music innit.
None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.
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Brag, but relevant to TommyGunnes post.
He obviously put me on AK when I 4bet
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($24.75)
SB ($11.74)
BB ($10.58)
Hero (UTG) ($43.32)
MP ($26.11)
CO ($26.17)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
Hero bets $0.80, 2 folds, Button raises to $2.75, 2 folds, Hero raises to $7, Button calls $4.25
Flop: ($14.35) Q, 4, 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $18, Button calls $17.75 (All-In)
Turn: ($49.85) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($49.85) J (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $49.85 | Rake: $2.49
Results:
Button had 7, 7 (one pair, sevens).
Hero had A, A (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: Hero won $47.36
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Originally posted by Starvin Marvin View PostThe 55 hand is a definite fold, especially at Rush, anytime i see a limp re-raise utg its always the goods."I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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I only need something like 36% to call though with the size of the pot. If BB wasn't still to act there is a chance I would call.
Using Holdem Vision to see the limp reraises at 25nl, it has predominantely been AA and KK, but there is a lot of AJo+ there too.
I cant do a weighted range in pokerstove, but I think that its kind of close. Just an interesting spot I think.
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Originally posted by emmet02 View PostI cant do a weighted range in pokerstove
And you got accepted into loads of awesome masters courses?
Ah no its actually easy enough. You have a choice of either only using specific combos of each hand in order to approximate the ratios (ie AA,KsKc,KsKh,KsKd,KcKh,KcKd,AhJs might be one possible way of doing it.) If you want to be a bit more accurate, just get your EV for each hand individually, store it elsewhere (ie excel) and multiply each EV by its weighting.
Do beware that the ranges HEM give you will not be all that accurate, cos firstly its a lrai rather than a lr, and secondly you should kinda filter by his stack size. Basically, you won't have a sufficient sample size to do that though.Last edited by TommyGunne; 28-04-10, 22:46.Foldaramus et foldarabimus
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Originally posted by TommyGunne View PostYou did Ec & Fi in college?
And you got accepted into loads of awesome masters courses?
Didnt think you could weight a range though, thought it spread it fairly evenly. Like obviously he is doing this with AA more than twice as much as he is doing it with A9, but having them both in his range will assign them equal weights in pokerstove?
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Originally posted by emmet02 View PostI slept out the pokerstove lecture unfortunately.
Didnt think you could weight a range though, thought it spread it fairly evenly. Like obviously he is doing this with AA more than twice as much as he is doing it with A9, but having them both in his range will assign them equal weights in pokerstove?Foldaramus et foldarabimus
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